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Paths of Civilization

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Glassware said:
Still stunningly affordable. Doubling our ongoing costs puts us down to +2 wealth/turn. Which in turn we can address with trade, salterns, markets, overflow...lots of infrastructure policies basically. I'm very surprised we've reached the point in our society where this is even possible.
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Reminder that a basic market will now cost 6 Wealth, roads 4, and basically your ability to do anything in a turn will be majorly curtailed by having to look out for having enough wealth to do anything. So yes, you have the option, but remember that this is going to get real expensive real quick, and if you suffer trade disruptions you will be in major trouble. Not saying its a trap option, just to keep it in mind that it's not nearly as cheap as you seem to be making it out as.
 
Chronic said:
Hm. Wealth generation was just nerfed and then suddenly an option everyone wants that doubles all Wealth costs pops up. How interesting. I am kind of worried that everyone is going to rush for the abolition of slavery without having run the math on whether we can afford it.

Oh well, what can you do. I know a loosing fight if i see one. We better get cracking on those markets, because those will be really damn important going forward. We might also want to try and pick up some trading related values.
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Yeah, if we take the biggest dam option, we can no longer afford the wealth costs to complete the Trader quest, which is bad because we've been propping up the traders. It's why I'm going for the second-biggest, which works nicely.
 
Chronic said:
Hm. Wealth generation was just nerfed and then suddenly an option everyone wants that doubles all Wealth costs pops up. How interesting. I am kind of worried that everyone is going to rush for the abolition of slavery without having run the math on whether we can afford it.

Oh well, what can you do. I know a loosing fight if i see one. We better get cracking on those markets, because those will be really damn important going forward. We might also want to try and pick up some trading related values.
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We're currently at +16 wealth a turn, with -7 cost and +9 profit. We can afford it if we are careful, since even doubling our costs would only bring us down to -2 a turn.

It'll suck and slow us big time, but it will also speed up our innovations in areas too, so...

Trade offs?
 
Raichu1972 said:
King actions are folded under Patricians actions, which is essentially every action.
Since Patricians are the Ruling Class, they have the ability to take almost any action, though some actions can only be taken in specific circumstances.
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Then our King fails to be a King, since while they are indeed our ruling class he is The Ruler of the class, which should come with privilges and right that belong only to him, given that he is the highest authority among the People

Raichu1972 said:
We might be able to oppose Faction actions by Supressing said faction, though I'm not sure how it would work exactly.
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Then the entire system is unbalanced, as it robbs us the chance to prevent NPC actions that the player base disagrees with, which stands at odds with the Spirit of the quest, where the players guide our civilisation and we see where it takes us

I'm not saying it has to be easy, but the option should be there, maybe at the cost of Stab and Legitimacy each time, because as it currently is, we can/will be forced to conform with history simple due NPC actions, that we cannot defend against

[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] City Support (4 Econ cost for True Cities offset each turn, -1 Tech)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
 
I'd like to know where exactly we'll be at if we take the increased wealth cost from addressing half-exiles before making any decisions. I'm sure some will say any cost is worth it, but I do like to weigh the more pragmatic issues against idealism.

Good show on no rants from either side thus far.
 
Academia Nut said:
Reminder that a basic market will now cost 6 Wealth, roads 4, and basically your ability to do anything in a turn will be majorly curtailed by having to look out for having enough wealth to do anything. So yes, you have the option, but remember that this is going to get real expensive real quick, and if you suffer trade disruptions you will be in major trouble. Not saying its a trap option, just to keep it in mind that it's not nearly as cheap as you seem to be making it out as.
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Oh... I'm more or less expecting this to break us, but it was going to happen eventually and at least it gets rid of action bloat.
 
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor'spalace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)

Fairly default, and we're gonna need that Infra
Edited for Dam Approval Voting
 
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Academia Nut said:
Reminder that a basic market will now cost 6 Wealth, roads 4, and basically your ability to do anything in a turn will be majorly curtailed by having to look out for having enough wealth to do anything. So yes, you have the option, but remember that this is going to get real expensive real quick, and if you suffer trade disruptions you will be in major trouble. Not saying its a trap option, just to keep it in mind that it's not nearly as cheap as you seem to be making it out as.
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I get that it's expensive and we're going to have to watch wealth like a hawk for the next while and wealth-costing actions are going to be an issue, but I was expecting the costs from this to literally break our civ in half from how others have hyped it up.

There's also the issue of trade disruption, of course. That in turn will need to be addressed by overflow...
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)

[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Nov 13, 2017 at 5:16 PM, finished with 128169 posts and 25 votes.
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Academia Nut said:
Reminder that a basic market will now cost 6 Wealth, roads 4, and basically your ability to do anything in a turn will be majorly curtailed by having to look out for having enough wealth to do anything. So yes, you have the option, but remember that this is going to get real expensive real quick, and if you suffer trade disruptions you will be in major trouble. Not saying its a trap option, just to keep it in mind that it's not nearly as cheap as you seem to be making it out as.
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Will it affect the dam upgrade costs?
 
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I got to say: I was expecting salt. There is no salt.
Instead we got Moral Bandwagon of Justice.

Could we please, please get some math on the costs before everyone decides that all this spending is doable?
I mean, at least for the Dam and policy options.
 
8bitBob said:
We will build the best Dam. If this option wins, we will absolutely need wealth actions and probably Megastructure Support just to finish it any time soon.
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Reminder that Abolition of Slavery makes the dam cost 6 wealth an action, when we get a doubling of ongoing costs. And the best wealth generating action is planting shit tons of cash crops. Not to mention that all the wealth generating factions will hate us for this and probably focus on fucking the state over instead of generating wealth with their actions following the system change.

Edit: It has been pointed out to me that it is only 4 wealth an action. Dunno how i got that wrong.
 
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Four Horsemen Survivor: +1 Prestige/turn whenever facing at least two Horsemen of the Apocalypse at the same time
City on the Hill: You always have a successor culture that inherits some of what you were, even if they were your killers
 
Citino said:
what is the difference between the biggest dam and the second biggest dam option?
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The biggest is kind of a dick waving symbol, but it is theoretically stronger and can handle a larger amount of water than the second biggest.

Glassware said:
Also, @Academia Nut at the start of next turn do we still have just 7 wealth, or does overflow happen before that?
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Stats on the front page are what you are going into the next turn with. I just split it off so that the six options here wouldn't be part of the main turn and all of it's choices.
 
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