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Paths of Civilization

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Sivantic said:
Hahaha
*looks at thread*
I told you so
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Besieging them implies that we wouldn't have just rolled up there and took it no problem, which is what they thread was trying to say.
We know from this update that the Trelli still have the core of their elites, and we know that they still have loyal lands beyond the strait sending them food, so we wouldn't have been able to just starve them out.

Unless we could send our siege machines by boat to break down the Trelli walls, we would have still been stuck in a long, costly siege.
I wouldn't be too smug if I were you.
 
Raichu1972 said:
want to keep the mercs in order to stop Trelli from getting enough of an advantage to soundly beat Freehils, and if both sides can't beat the other they will be more likely to sue for peace instead.
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The thing is, now that Trelli's lost their foothold on Free Hill's side of the Straits, it would be murder in order to attack them. Naval landings are not easy at all, even in the modern day. Having to land while your enemy is prepared, knows you're coming and can rain projectiles down on you is going to be murder.

Free Hill likely doesn't need us any more in order to consolidate their gains. They have a Martial Hero King and it doesn't sound like the Trelli do. That's an enormous advantage. I don't think Trelli has the forces on hand that could really oppose that.

At the same time, I'm worried about the Pirate King trying to sack Tin River or Greenshore. If we pull our Mercs back, the Red Banner can rest in the core while the Dragon and Bloody Rain Banners continue the war against the Pirate King. We're currently doing better now, but if one of our territories were to be sacked, that would be an immense hit. I know it's never occurred, but I suspect that hit caused by PSN would be 1 Stability per province lost.

Either way, I want the Pirate King dead. Once we've established peace, we can finally hunt him down.
 
[X] [War] Attempt to mediate a peace between the Trelli and Freehills (-4 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, chance to open the Strait for free)
[X] [Mercs] Take their pay and head out, further commitment is not worth it (+2 Wealth, mercs disengage)
[X] [HS] Prototype Weapon Storage (Palace Arsenal + Storehouse Annexes, Reforms advance)

The decision is fairly obvious for the war itself, because we're sitting pretty at -1 Stab and because we want the straits open ASAP. The mercs should get paid and go home; military engagement with the Khemetri is very high up on my do not want list. Prototype Weapon Storage is admittedly not my first choice, but I think there's convincing argument that it'll help end the Second Sons Crisis, so I'm voting for it.

I suggest that we loan out the mercs to the Western Ymaryn next if we can. More money in the bank, less strong neighbors to worry about.

Mortis said:
Could we just stop arguing about it? The choice has already been made, so continuing this is pointless and is only going to help foster unpleasantness.
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Yes, please.

How about we don't spend the next 12 hours of this vote endlessly relitigating the last vote.

EDIT: corrections
 
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Gotta get them ironworks!! As @PrimalShadow says, better not to use a main to achieve a secondary.

[X] [War] Attempt to mediate a peace between the Trelli and Freehills (-4 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, chance to open the Strait for free)
[X] [Mercs] Stick around unless they intend to go after the Khemetri (Mercs still paid by Freehills barring war dec on Khemetri)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production to makethings cheaper (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used,Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE,-1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
 
Janadus said:
[X] [War] Attempt to mediate a peace between the Trelli and Freehills (-4 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, chance to open the Strait for free)
[X] [Mercs] Take their pay and head out, further commitment is not worth it (+2 Wealth, mercs disengage)
[X] [HS] Prototype Weapon Storage (Palace Arsenal + Storehouse Annexes, Reforms advance)

The decision is fairly obvious for the war itself, because we're sitting pretty at -2 Stab and because we want the straits open ASAP. The mercs should get paid and go home; military engagement with the Khemetri is very high up on my do not want list. Prototype Weapon Storage is admittedly not my first choice, but I think there's convincing argument that it'll help end the Second Sons Crisis, so I'm voting for it.

I suggest that we loan out the mercs to the Western Ymaryn next if we can. More money in the bank, less strong neighbors to worry about.


Yes, please.

How about we don't spend the next 12 hours of this vote endlessly relitigating the last vote.
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We actually only have -1 stab, but I still sorta agree with the argument. I'm voting to both send the mercs home and to let them fight so long as it's not Khem, but I can see the arguments for either one.

I'm against sending mercs to WY on principle, because they're slaving shits and traitors all.
 
Redium said:
At the same time, I'm worried about the Pirate King trying to sack Tin River or Greenshore. If we pull our Mercs back, the Red Banner can rest in the core while the Dragon and Bloody Rain Banners continue the war against the Pirate King. We're currently doing better now, but if one of our territories were to be sacked, that would be an immense hit. I know it's never occurred, but I suspect that hit caused by PSN would be 1 Stability per province lost.
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Freehills is closer to the colonies than the core man, it's faster to get to the colonies from freehills than from the corelands.
 
Does our stats include the Enforce Justice from the mid-turn/react-turn? If not, we can reasonably do a Main Enforce Justice come next main turn to bring Stab up to 3, I believe, with 4 Secondaries and 2 Guild to do other stuff with.
 
VoidZero said:
And you should note that we would need to seige the city instead of walk in and done.
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Raichu1972 said:
Besieging them implies that we wouldn't have just rolled up there and took it no problem, which is what they thread was trying to say.
We know from this update that the Trelli still have the core of their elites, and we know that they still have loyal lands beyond the strait sending them food, so we wouldn't have been able to just starve them out.

Unless we could send our siege machines by boat to break down the Trelli walls, we would have still been stuck in a long, costly siege.
I wouldn't be too smug if I were you.
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Exactly and unlike the Free Hills, we have Siege Equipment.

agumentic said:
Eh? General consensus was we could do it, it's just that many didn't want the problems that came with it.
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Not what I am smug about
Sivantic said:
I think something that has not been considered is that when we grant another polity our Mercenaries...they do not come with our Naval. That is purely ours. Does anyone else have a Naval? How effective do you think they will be to the Free Hills who have 0 Naval?
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I freaking called it.
 
OliWhail said:
Gotta get them ironworks!!

[X] [War] Attempt to mediate a peace between the Trelli and Freehills (-4 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, chance to open the Strait for free)
[X] [Mercs] Stick around unless they intend to go after the Khemetri (Mercs still paid by Freehills barring war dec on Khemetri)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production to makethings cheaper (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used,Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE,-1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
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Note Mr. Whail that there is an idea floating around that Prototype Weapons Storage can help with our Cent requirement:
It puts all of the weapons in a centralized holding area under the control of the state and government officials. It also standardizes the equipment and likely training(since everyone is using the same things they get trained the same).

Next it is also necessary to get in place as early as possible so that fewer weapons leak out of state control and onto the black market. This is especially necessary to get in place before we get massive production going, for the same reasons, don't want to give the black market a big influx.

And finally, again on black market thing, once they are in place the flow to the black market slows to a trickle.
 
Academia Nut said:
At the moment, Trelli may decide to accept a peace. The straits is keeping the two forces apart such that whoever has the homefield advantage on a side has an overwhelming advantage, so neither can really contest the other where it hurts. Cutting their losses would allow the Trelli to consolidate what they have left.
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Academia Nut said:
The warriors loyal to the city itself had been able to maintain control over the seas in close proximity to the city, even as they had lost much of the territory to the north-west to pirate raids. What was going on in the south-west was unknown to the People, but given that the city of Trelli wasn't starving yet, there must be some farming territory out there that was still loyal to them.
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How likely does it seem that they'll be able to consolidate? We know that they rely mainly on merc armies which have now gone rogue and the pirate menace has basically strangled trade long enough that they're flat out broke even before they fought a war. I mean they aren't starving and they have enough to pay for their non-merc troops but by all indications their future looked bleak last turn and then they lost all their territory on the other side of the strait. Does it seem like they're exhausted except for the warriors defending the city itself?
 
Literally I voted for helping Freehills so we wouldn't attack the Straits.
Sivantic said:
Exactly and unlike the Free Hills, we have Siege Equipment.


Not what I am smug about

I freaking called it.
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Siege Euqipment do not allow you to walk through walls like they don't exist.

We'd have been attacking a city with coastal defences, an elite core of military units, and supplying our forces over the sea. Oh, and the city has food and whatnot.

Taking it would not have been easy or trivial.
 
[X] [War] Attempt to mediate a peace between the Trelli and Freehills (-4 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, chance to open the Strait for free)
[X] [Mercs] Stick around unless they intend to go after the Khemetri (Mercs still paid by Freehills barring war dec on Khemetri)
[X] [HS] Prototype Weapon Storage (Palace Arsenal + Storehouse Annexes, Reforms advance)
 
BungieONI said:
Note Mr. Whail that there is an idea floating around that Prototype Weapons Storage can help with our Cent requirement:
It puts all of the weapons in a centralized holding area under the control of the state and government officials. It also standardizes the equipment and likely training(since everyone is using the same things they get trained the same).
Next it is also necessary to get in place as early as possible so that fewer weapons leak out of state control and onto the black market. This is especially necessary to get in place before we get massive production going, for the same reasons, don't want to give the black market a big influx.

And finally, again on black market thing, once they are in place the flow to the black market slows to a trickle.
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Mrrrrrgh ok fine, I trust you to be wise here and I'm about to fall asleep

[x] BungieONI
 
Da Boyz said:
How likely does it seem that they'll be able to consolidate? We know that they rely mainly on merc armies which have now gone rogue and the pirate menace has basically strangled trade long enough that they're flat out broke even before they fought a war. I mean they aren't starving and they have enough to pay for their non-merc troops but by all indications their future looked bleak last turn and then they lost all their territory on the other side of the strait. Does it seem like they're exhausted except for the warriors defending the city itself?
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They have enough warriors to fortify the city, and they have farmland around somewhere that they are able to get food from.
From the looks of things they already consolidated to the point that they can protect the city from all comers, but not to the point that they can really proactively engage against aggressors.

They can turtle up and do pretty well, but can't really project any force outside of the city and the nearby sea.
 
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