- Location
- Staring into the void
God kings was what let them burn RA instead of Stability.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Australia
[X] [Reform] Begin Myranyn Reforms Event Chain
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Western Ymaryn (Possibly Pioneering Spirit)
[X] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
[X] [GA] Administrative innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
Edit: change to Myranyn reforms.
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Western Ymaryn (Possibly Pioneering Spirit)
[X] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
[X] [GA] Administrative innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
Edit: change to Myranyn reforms.
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Yes. That's why the Grain Dole is amazing(and bloody expensive x.x). As long as you supply the Urban Poor their Grain Dole...well I think you'd find the fervor and loyalty of the urban poor compares favorably with religious zealots.
Well, speaking historically anyways. Most urban conscript schemes all the way to the modern day have the sense to make sure the weapons are stored in central arsenals when not in training or in deployment.
This is useful because most of the urban poor do not live in conditions good for the maintenance of crossbows, due to damp, mold and grease, they rapidly lose tension and integrity.
That said yes, it'd increase the amount of armed crime in the cities. Whenever you're having large numbers of weapons stored, there's going to be quartermasters selling them to organized crime.
[X] [Reform] Begin Harmysyn Reforms Event Chain
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Harmurri (Something trade related maybe [Not Center of Trade related])
[X] [GA] Financial innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Harmurri (Something trade related maybe [Not Center of Trade related])
[X] [GA] Financial innovation (-8 Wealth)
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Argue against the vote, not the person.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I can multitask and will do so so long as people continue to vote based on name recognition. If it makes you feel any better I could argue against blindly copying votes in general, but singling out individuals is more effective psychologically.
- Location
- Somewhere
Kind of difficult when veekie is seen as one of the skilled gamers on the site. Veekie is noticed, who pays attention to a tiny post barely three sentences pushing for say Financial innovation? If you're veekie everyody votes because veekie says so. When veekie seems to be treating the choice of Financial innovation as a joke we can handle right now. Our best choice might be Administration inovation, or Subordinate reform. I was hoping zamin would go into depth on the pros and cons for the [GA] choice, but no dice. zamin is one of those voices of the thread people listen to.
x.x
Goddamit. Editing
The Yeomen are not 90% of the population. The farmers are. The Yeomen are closer to 10-20% of the farmer population.
Yeomen are basically knights in the feudal hierarchy, they manage a plot of land consisting of one large extended family or several smaller families, and they train their sons to be Yeomen.
This is why the Second Sons crisis, because the additional sons are trained to be Yeomen but do not have the land to become a Yeoman. Their choices are:
-Drop down one social rank, become the Rural poor, working the farm under their brothers.
-Go to the big city and become the Urban poor.
-Join the army full time, but positions are limited.
-Go murder some people and take their land to become Yeomen.
It's amazing how regularly we need to debunk the yeomen as a poor oppressed caste of society.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
[X] [Reform] Begin Harmysyn Reforms Event Chain
Gender equality ho! The other would give the Urban Poor more power, which is.... well, they have a tendency to get pretty spiteful at times ("fail a quest or lose stability!"). Also "we'll just cut off their food supply"? Really? Do you want a revolution? Because that's how you start a revolution.
So long as we can feed them, everything's okay, but what if we simply can't? Bad ideas, I can promise you that.
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
More Econ! We need it! Always!
[] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably a Spiritual Value, hard to tell compatibility with new religion)
[] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
These are my favorites but.... The Khem one might be at odds with our new religion and there's no telling what that might do. The Freehills one is likely to be related to fredom, equality or democracy. As we are right one, those are likely to be double-edged swords....
Please no Harmurri. Anything that might give the Traders more power isn't something I want. Fucking Rule of Gold....
[X] [GA] Administrative innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [GA] Financial innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
I don't know which of these is most needed, but they're all useful.
Gender equality ho! The other would give the Urban Poor more power, which is.... well, they have a tendency to get pretty spiteful at times ("fail a quest or lose stability!"). Also "we'll just cut off their food supply"? Really? Do you want a revolution? Because that's how you start a revolution.
So long as we can feed them, everything's okay, but what if we simply can't? Bad ideas, I can promise you that.
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
More Econ! We need it! Always!
[] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably a Spiritual Value, hard to tell compatibility with new religion)
[] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
These are my favorites but.... The Khem one might be at odds with our new religion and there's no telling what that might do. The Freehills one is likely to be related to fredom, equality or democracy. As we are right one, those are likely to be double-edged swords....
Please no Harmurri. Anything that might give the Traders more power isn't something I want. Fucking Rule of Gold....
[X] [GA] Administrative innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [GA] Financial innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
I don't know which of these is most needed, but they're all useful.
Interesting note on the Western Ymarin: If they try to absorb too many of our refugees, they might take a Stability hit themselves, which means some of their people will leave our way. And if we try to absorb too many refugees from them, some of our people will go their way.
I really want to do this until our populations are mixed again. More probably it will just mean that when refugees from somewhere else hit one of our kingdoms, some will keep going to settle in the other one.
I really want to do this until our populations are mixed again. More probably it will just mean that when refugees from somewhere else hit one of our kingdoms, some will keep going to settle in the other one.
- Location
- Maryland
[X] [Reform] Begin Myranyn Reforms Event Chain
[X] [Reform] Begin Both (-1 Stability, Both Events Started, ???)
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably a Spiritual Value, hard to tell compatibility with new religion)
[X] [GA] Administrative innovation (-8 Wealth)
[X] [Reform] Begin Both (-1 Stability, Both Events Started, ???)
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably a Spiritual Value, hard to tell compatibility with new religion)
[X] [GA] Administrative innovation (-8 Wealth)
I'm really not convinced we should arm the urban poor while also feeding them via the grain dole, we would very quickly become dependent on the good will of the mob and while we are currently having problems with our militia system it has worked for literally millennia and provided us with a huge strategic depth that a professional army could not match and a quality a conscript army couldn't match.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Rule of Gold is part of the Center of Trade value line. The value from Harmurri is not part of that line.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Just because you can make bad arguments and good arguments at the same time doesn't mean you should.
So, turns out the descision you're complaining about is an error. This is revealed if you argue about the substance of the vote, but will not be noticed if you argue about the person.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
So you're going to go on a tangent based on a perceived misunderstanding on my part rather than actually contesting the point that arming the poor will not actually alter our ability to maintain a monopoly of force more than, say, expanding our mercenary companies with additional trained commanders? The fact is that unless we actually suppress the yeomen our ability to muster forces against them matters little.
And we already had a good five votes for that error. This is one of the many reasons why blindly voting for a recognizable name is a bad idea.
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Well that's a relief, but it could still be something similar and I don't feel like taking our chances on that. Or with the Khem value.
- Location
- Austria
That's why I don't get all those people who think we totes should war with them. We can just suck each other when either feels bad, living in a perfect harmony of intermingling pops.
Having another PiA+PNS+PK polity is a godsend tbh. It was lonely.
- Location
- Somewhere
That doesn't change the fact it appeared people were blindly copying Veekie's vote. Which you were saying was because people weren't arguing for their choice. I chose to point out the difficulty of doing so. A person needs to come up with five points at least, have a large and wordy post. Then wait for a critic to notice the person, and maybe the person prevents people from following the leaders of the vote charge.
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
What choice do we have? Nomadic and Storm wolf values might trigger Nemesis fashion DB since a part of us is warring against them.
Western Ymaryn is risky since we are dropping 1 stability a turn due to gilded age. Mountain horse and Freehills are completely unknown at this time.
[] [PiA] Western Ymaryn (Possibly Pioneering Spirit)
[] [PiA] Harmurri (Something trade related maybe [Not Center of Trade related])
[] [PiA] Mountain Horse (Probably an Honour Code)
[] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably a Spiritual Value, hard to tell compatibility with new religion)
[] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
[] [PiA] Storm Tribes (Probably an Honour Code)
[] [PiA] Nomads (Honour Code)
Worth keeping in mind that military ideas which don't work get changed out FAST.
The urban poor armies displaced landowner armies extremely quickly.
Why? The same reason the landowner armies were much more common than a full time warrior army past the tribal stage.
Numbers.
The Urban Poor can be recruited in great numbers very cheaply, requiring only several months of training, compared to the landowners, who needed to be trained from childhood to use a bow. Furthermore, the Urban Poor are trained in the modern way, one trainer directing dozens of individuals at once, which meant in turn that drill and discipline become more significant parts of training.
As a bonus, we're getting nearer to pikes! After this transition we'd be able to pack Crossbowmen behind Pike Hedges.
It's sort of like archers bringing their own forest.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't know how long they're going to last, with Pioneering Spirit sapping their disaster response ability. They're going to be taking a lot of temp econ damage and they don't have the infrastructure we have. Well, aside from sharing our religion, probably...
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- Location
- Australia
No he did not. He did nothing bad whatsoever. It was our priests criticising the king who set this whole thing off. The Mystic Genius had nothing to do with it, and in fact criticised those same priests who set the crisis off.
They're the slave kingdom that came into being when we signed peace with the Trelli.
NO. Going to war to stop a fire is a terrible idea. War has always been bad for us and going to war while we're in crisis mode is extremely bad. Furthermore, WE COULD LOSE. Or at least simply not succeed on the first turn, in which case we get plunged into civil war. Theoretically it should be doable, but we've been wrong about things before. This is absolutely not something we should gamble on. We'll suppress the bastards and take the Stab/Econ loss on the chin.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
So we are going to have standing armies once urban poor are converted to crossbowmen? You know this will likely double the economy and wealth cost, as they are entirely dependent on the paymaster without any sort of asset to live off of.
- Location
- Austria
PS does not sap it if they don't forget to EJ time to time. It just means they grow in size fast.