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Paths of Civilization

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[x] [King] Embrace Sorrow
[x] [War] Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)

I think Sorrow's the best pick, provided we're not trying to continue the war. And I want to see what comes of mass manumission.
 
veekie said:
Charcoal however WOULD prop things up for a long while. I don't think we need to be too concerned about it for a while.
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It would come down to cost efficiency. If Charcoal remains competitive with Coal Mining, we can use it for quite some time. And I suppose over time we will get steadily more efficient in our production of it.

Like having permanent or semi-permanent, large kilns where we just toss in wood and take out the charcoal rather than constantly making a new pile, shoveling clay on it before cooking it.

Wikipedia suggests that towards the 17th century 90% efficiency by volume was achieved and that it was responsible for major deforestation. Growing demand and inability of them to keep up was the reason that they switched to fossil fuels. So we can probably employ a hell of a lot of people in the forests, which means wealth flowing into the countryside and the urban poor having jobs available if, for some reason, the Yeomen can't keep up with demand.
 
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
[X] [King] Embrace Anger

As long as the emotion is a healthy-ish emotion I'm fine. Insanity has too many drawbacks.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Omegahugger on Aug 20, 2017 at 10:42 AM, finished with 105023 posts and 85 votes.
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DakkaMania said:
I think the King option here is also about the philosophy he uses to deal with it, which makes sense because we got Philosopher Kings. So the King will look towards that on how to deal with stress. Given that the nation as a whole looks to the King as a trendsetter, it's likely to be emulated. So I tried to find the schools of thought AN was referencing. So far I have only found Absurdism.

Absurdism - Wikipedia

Could some of our more philosophy savvy members chip in to figure out what else AN might have referenced and how that affects our culture as a whole?
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I'm hoping it means he sees and understands the Warp in some way...
 
DakkaMania said:
It would come down to cost efficiency. If Charcoal remains competitive with Coal Mining, we can use it for quite some time. And I suppose over time we will get steadily more efficient in our production of it.

Like having permanent or semi-permanent, large kilns where we just toss in wood and take out the charcoal rather than constantly making a new pile, shoveling clay on it before cooking it.

Wikipedia suggests that towards the 17th century 90% efficiency by volume was achieved and that it was responsible for major deforestation. Growing demand and inability of them to keep up was the reason that they switched to fossil fuels. So we can probably employ a hell of a lot of people in the forests, which means wealth flowing into the countryside and the urban poor having jobs available if, for some reason, the Yeomen can't keep up with demand.
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I suspect we've already switched to semipermanent kilns given how much we burn, which yeah, keeps the rural middle class alive.

The important part is having a big headstart on sustainable forestry...which being kind of our national hobby probably has a chance
 
Kiba said:
Oh, you mean we won't develop the metallurgy in time during the industrial revolution? Or that it will be hard to trigger the innovation since everyone would just use biofuel instead?
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The efficacy of solar heating is pretty terrible for a long time, because it requires large expanses of desolate land with intense sunlight and little rain, large amounts of pretty high quality metal and then there is the efficiency issues of energy transmission from such areas to the cultivated areas we actually use for our settlements and industry.

It works in modern times because electricity is pretty easy to transfer(well, relatively, long power lines suffer losses too, but it's at least possible), but solar power in it's modern form requires a substantially post-steam civilization to even consider as more than a novelty.
 
veekie said:
I suspect we've already switched to semipermanent kilns given how much we burn, which yeah, keeps the rural middle class alive.

The important part is having a big headstart on sustainable forestry...which being kind of our national hobby probably has a chance
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Given the cyclical nature of forests, there are probably kilns somewhere in the middle or where ever it's easiest to haul the wood. Thats also where the local village will be as that makes everything easier. From Black Soil production, lumber and just generally being able to throw garbage into the kilns.

I wonder if they figure out clay bricks anytime soon. They are bitch to transport over land, but make building much easier. And we have the fuel for it as well. Doesn't even require Charcoal. Regular wood should be sufficient. Also much less work than stonecutting.

Btw, did AN ever state where all these forests are being grown? Do we make an effort to put them northwards to act as an anti-nomad defence?
 
veekie said:
The efficacy of solar heating is pretty terrible for a long time, because it requires large expanses of desolate land with intense sunlight and little rain, large amounts of pretty high quality metal and then there is the efficiency issues of energy transmission from such areas to the cultivated areas we actually use for our settlements and industry.

It works in modern times because electricity is pretty easy to transfer(well, relatively, long power lines suffer losses too, but it's at least possible), but solar power in it's modern form requires a substantially post-steam civilization to even consider as more than a novelty.
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I don't mean a solarthermal power plant, but solar heating for local uses, specifically home heating. Electricity generation is not the goal here.

Now, granted, despite solar heating being available in 90% of Israeli home, it only shaved off 4% of the energy bill and that was a response to the lack of oil and a law mandating that....

Anyway, I don't care for using solar thermal to generate electricity. I prefer wind turbines and photovolatic technology for that. Rather, I am interested in using solar thermal as thermal energy in industrial setting.
 
Analysis post. Quick one for a short update!
Diplomacy 15 [+3] -> 12 [+3]
-Terrify -3

Just the Terrify cost.

Economy 3 [+1-3] {1} -> 13 [+1-4] {11}
-Build Mills +4
-Main New Settlement +1
-Main Expand Econ +6
-War Mission? -1

Probably war losses there?

Econ Expansion 15 [+3-1] -> 10 [+4-1]
-Main New Settlement +1
-Main Expand Econ -6

Business as usual

Martial 12 {12} -> 8 {12}
-War Mission -4

A costly war, though costly on both sides. Offense policy will recoup this quickly.

Wealth 18 [+(3+(2+8)/2+6)-(2-2-1)] -> 15 [+(3+(2+8)/2+6)-(2-2-1)]
-Build Mills -3

Very complex looking formula due to the trade doing a merry jig.

Mysticism 9 (+6) [+2-3] -> 10 (+6) [+2-3]
-Main New Settlement +1

Wonder what's the new holy site called

Tech 9 (+3) [-1] -> 8 (+4) [-1]
-Build Mills -1

Business as usual

Prestige 88 -> 87
-War -1

And another ding.

Stability 2 (optimistic) -> 1 (hopeful)
-War -1

And another ding.

Centralization 7 -> 5
-Expand Econ -2

Business as usual.

No change to Trade balance since it hadn't hit the midturn.
Minion loyalty went up by 1 across the board. War unifies.
No change to techs.

Academia Nut said:
Something inside Yshuyn had snapped.

This whole war had been a mistake as far as he was concerned. They had gone off with the justification of priests and the prompting of those with less than virtuous purposes, and it had cost them dearly in terms of diplomatic contacts and the opinions of their neighbours. He had stood in the background for much of it, working feverishly to ensure that everyone had food to eat, and what did he get for it?

He got the report of several thousand warriors getting trapped in a narrow valley and slaughtered to the last. Thousands. Tens of thousands perhaps. Nothing so catastrophic as say the Battle of Bloodvalley, but where the People had just been able to roll with the disaster there, had been energized in some ways, this was just a demoralizing slog. Yshuyn knew that when he had received the news he had absolutely broken down, weeping uncontrollably at the senseless brutality of it all.
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Bloody as hell. Must have been some pretty horrific rolls, and painful to the pacifist king.

Many were blaming the Proclamation, and thus him and the priests. They certainly carried responsibility for how the situation had evolved. First by starting it, and then proclaiming that all slaves held in bondage within Trelli lands were free to live their own lives, a Proclamation that the People would enforce with sword, spear, arrow, and battering ram. In any settlement the People seized, any person held in bondage would be released to take whatever vengeance they wished upon the conquered population, and thus it behooved the Trelli and their colonists to simply free those enslaved, both to end the war and to avoid any terrible fate befalling them. While by all accounts this had sown considerable fear among the Trelli, it had also motivated them to greater ferocity in the defense, and hence the massacre.
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So Terrify worked, in that it caused the Trelli to lose Stability. But it also looked like they committed basically EVERYTHING into the fight because they knew they couldn't last long with the Stability hit, especially not if we did it again.

So it worked too well.
The fact that, because of Trelli ship patrols making trying to land troops close to their city was impossible, the Dragon Banner was still pushing along the coast out of Tinriver and Trelli itself was in no way threatened, was definitely making continued threats difficult.
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With the war properly under way, we couldn't reach Trell itself by sea, which was a known fact as well, though they couldn't stop us on the open sea, near their city they could concentrate enough force that speed doesn;t do it.

Yshuyn felt... disconnected. Felt like his spirit wasn't entirely attached to his body, spreading a terrible numbness through him. Sometimes he broke down crying over nothing at all as he contemplated the senseless waste of it all. Sometimes fits of giggles came over him as he remembered that some of the slaves they had fought to free had taken up banditry or piracy - some of the pirates were their former traders disgruntled at the loss of the Trelli market! - and how stupid the whole situation had become. And sometimes dark rages came over him and he would scream and yell at those around him, at the incompetence and incorrectness of the world. He would almost invariably breakdown crying at the terror he wrought among those around him once the mood passed, but he feared that his outbursts were getting more common and more intense. Despite the fear within him over these fell moods, there was also something pleasant about feeling instead of the cold detachment that so easily draped itself over his shoulders the rest of the time.
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And this is not good for his heart.

Unsurprised by the slaves taking to piracy, if they couldn't trust anyone then they'd fight everyone and take what they wanted.
Annoyed about our traders going pirate, but I half suspect that those were probably the same bunch as the "Maybe we should trade slaves too" lot :<

[] [King] Embrace Anger

Wrath. Not necessarily the useful kind of anger, Yshuyn was never a warrior. But this made him scream and rage at his own court, as per the narration.
May spur him to change things in drastic ways.

[] [King] Embrace Sorrow

Sorrow. Here he is incapacitated by the world, so he breaks down and stops working for a time. Heart of Tears.
Might simply lead to suicide or giving up.

[] [King] Embrace the Absurd

Finding everything hilarious, a cruel joke by the gods.
Hard to predict, this sounds a lot like Arbitrary.

[] [King] Embrace Numbness

Heart of Steel. Kill the emotions that pains him so, end the war with efficiency.
Given his Admin skills, this can be pretty terrifying during the war, though the aftermath of him going on a Conviction Limit Break may be just as bad.

[] [King] Embrace Madness

Surrender to the madness. Be removed from his position and put into the care of the priests where he doesn't have to be responsible for so much death.
 
DakkaMania said:
Given the cyclical nature of forests, there are probably kilns somewhere in the middle or where ever it's easiest to haul the wood. Thats also where the local village will be as that makes everything easier. From Black Soil production, lumber and just generally being able to throw garbage into the kilns.

I wonder if they figure out clay bricks anytime soon. They are bitch to transport over land, but make building much easier. And we have the fuel for it as well. Doesn't even require Charcoal. Regular wood should be sufficient. Also much less work than stonecutting.

Btw, did AN ever state where all these forests are being grown? Do we make an effort to put them northwards to act as an anti-nomad defence?
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Passive policy is being taken basically everywhere. No concentrated effort, since its scraped together from the idle and tax labor of our population.
Kiba said:
I don't mean a solarthermal power plant, but solar heating for local uses, specifically home heating. Electricity generation is not the goal here.

Now, granted, despite solar heating being available in 90% of Israeli home, it only shaved off 4% of the energy bill and that was a response to the lack of oil and a law mandating that....

Anyway, I don't care for using solar thermal to generate electricity. I prefer wind turbines and photovolatic technology for that. Rather, I am interested in using solar thermal as thermal energy in industrial setting.
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Oh then it's basically a non-starter. Solar thermal is not usable in domestic or industrial setting until you can create sheet metal in bulk.
At which point it just plain does not produce enough heat for usess, especially with our dense forestry.

You notice how such thermal projects are usually centered around dry plains regions
 
DakkaMania said:
I was more talking about the PSN prompts. We did a few Main Forests with that.
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Same thing. PSN prompts are done by people across the country taking it into their own hands to plant more trees. So it should be spread out most of the time.
Kiba said:
Is anyone worried about the impending worsening health of our king and what it might do to our Kingdom?
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Depends on what we take. Down the Absurd and Madness routes I expect more severe short term problems before he's removed. Down the Wrath and Mind of Steel routes lies unpredictable precedents. Down Sorrow he's just ineffective instead.
 
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