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Paths of Civilization

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Theoretically, if we can skip any Dark Ages and increase urbanization we should be able to hit the industrial age much sooner simply by having a higher population that can innovate.

But yeah, it's still going to be millenia.
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
[X] [King] Embrace the Absurd

[X] [War] Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)

I almost hope to lose the war vote, but the narrative weight of this choice tempts me so much. The Ymaryn paying a terrible price in blood and treasure to secure the freedom of others just because it's the right thing to do? Proving that we entered this war not in hopes of material gains but to protect the inaliable rights the gods bestowed on all of mankind? It's just irresistible.

Besides, it doesn't seem like this war would get us Trelli proper. Let's save that war until right after we discover steel and before anyone else has a chance to steal it.
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*respect level decreasing*

What do you think the Trelli are going to do with our money? That's right, buy more slaves to replace the ones they sold us. How will that pan out, narratively?

Mechanically speaking, we might suffer instability & partial collapse, and when we finally get our shit back together in a century or two, our neighbors will have surpassed us. What will the narrative be, in that case?
 
10ebbor10 said:
The problem is the cost of acknowledging the mistake.

Let's analyze.



We start with 1 Stability.

We lose at least one from this option, So we're at 0 to -1.
We lose 15 Wealth, triggering the Guilds to panic, so we're at -1 to -2
We take in refugees, so we're at -1 to -3
We fail the trader quest, so we may lose trade dominance, so we're at -1 to -4
We take 7 temp econ damage + 4-6 econ damage from refugees, potentially triggering a starvation, so we're at -1 to -5

In addition, narratively it's just a plain bad choice. Read the story about India and the snake head bounty if you want to know why.



This is a more feasible alternative, but it still has decent odds of dropping us out of the Golden Age
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Here's the most convincing numerical analysis thus far.
 
NewAgeOfPower said:
What do you think the Trelli are going to do with our money? That's right, buy more slaves to replace the ones they sold us. How will that pan out, narratively?
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Would be a very weird way to enter the slave market, esentially buying population off other civs.

NewAgeOfPower said:
Mechanically speaking, we might suffer instability & partial collapse, and when we finally get our shit back together in a century or two, our neighbors will have surpassed us. What will the narrative be, in that case?
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So what if our neighbours surpass us? We've been the underdogs before and done just fine.

Not saying we should actively aim for it, but on the list of "bad things happening" it's pretty far down.
 
Umi-san said:
Here's the most convincing numerical analysis thus far.
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I do figure that it's possible for us to get a value from ??? that could impact stability positively, if we roll right on the right thing. No idea how likely it would be to happen, though.
We know the Khemetri can burn RA for stability, and that doesn't seem totally insane as a result of this narrative.

Omegahugger said:
Would be a very weird way to enter the slave market, esentially buying population off other civs.


So what if our neighbours surpass us? We've been the underdogs before and done just fine.

Not saying we should actively aim for it, but on the list of "bad things happening" it's pretty far down.
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I'm not sure the current playerbase is prepared to take the options we'd need to as an underdog.
 
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George said:
I do figure that it's possible for us to get a value from ??? that could impact stability positively, if we roll right on the right thing. No idea how likely it would be to happen, though.
We know the Khemetri can burn RA for stability, and that doesn't seem totally insane as a result of this narrative.
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sure, that's within the realm of possibility
would rather not lose GA and risk possible death though
especially since at its core this does not stop the slave trade
and more importantly loses me my strait
 
Umi-san said:
sure, that's within the realm of possibility
would rather not lose GA and risk possible death though
especially since at its core this does not stop the slave trade
and more importantly loses me my strait
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Yeah, losing GA from it is >99% to occur imo. (we lose it at 0, right?) I figure stability impacting trait gain shifts the failure chance a few points. From 15% to 12% for instance. Failure being -4 Stability.
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
Well, I was assuming our diplomats weren't idiots and would put in some sort of a "no more chattel slavery" clause into the agreement. Force them to switch to a more acceptable slavery type.
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See below.
Academia Nut said:
No, manumission is basically you buying all of their current slaves, but you have no way of enforcing that it stay that way.
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Emphasis my own.
Omegahugger said:
So what if our neighbours surpass us? We've been the underdogs before and done just fine.
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Septimus is enamored with the 'narrative' of the People willing to pay any price to do 'the right thing'. The thing is, not only is paying slavers wrong, we'll have a narrative of being idiots who self destructed their civilization's immense lead for no real change at all.

If we fall behind because the Nomads quad critted on us or something, fine. Dice happens.

If we regress or atrophy because of voterbase idiocy, repeated voterbase idiocy, I'm going be very salty.
 
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George said:
Yeah, losing GA from it is >99% to occur imo. (we lose it at 0, right?) I figure stability impacting trait gain shifts the failure chance a few points. From 15% to 12% for instance. Failure being -4 Stability.
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*shrug* I agree.

Quote from ebbor, not bracket-quoted for ease of comprehension.
"We lose at least one from this option, So we're at 0 to -1.
We lose 15 Wealth, triggering the Guilds to panic, so we're at -1 to -2
We take in refugees, so we're at -1 to -3
We fail the trader quest, so we may lose trade dominance, so we're at -1 to -4
We take 7 temp econ damage + 4-6 econ damage from refugees, potentially triggering a starvation, so we're at -1 to -5"

Lose one = 100%. Lose another one, 50%.
Guilds panicking (i.e. we're at 15 -> 0) ~100% chance of a stab hit in my opinion (it's a really solid crash). Possible further damage from piracy; possibly reduced damage in the unlikely case trade immediately opens. Sticking w/ 1 stab.
Refugees = a 50% chance if we pick the minimum choice, which we probably will.
Of the goods we dominate/lead in, the Trelli are only italic-competing in wine, so that's a 1 stab hit. Possibly more in our non-limited goods (copper, for one), but let's ignore those and make this a solid.
We're taking 7-8 inherently, possibly 4-6 or less from refugees (it depends on whether the slaves are the only refugees). So maybe a like... 25% chance of a stab hit here. (Probably less, imo, but I'm balancing it out w/ ignoring stronger risks elsewhere.)
So essentially guaranteed (imo) -3 stab. a .5 each for -2 (expected value of 1). 0.25 of another -1 (0.25). ~4.25 stab total, leading us to be at -3.25, or -3.

I.e., total collapse is unlikely. But it is more likely than us continuing to fail at this war.
 
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Alright, I'm doing it. I'm going to make an omake. It's going to be awhile yet until it's finished, but I'd like a little help with some background stuff.

What does Khem call Ymar? Trell? Themselves? (As nations)

What's a good name for a patrician? A merchant?
 
veekie said:
Passive policy is being taken basically everywhere. No concentrated effort, since its scraped together from the idle and tax labor of our population.

Oh then it's basically a non-starter. Solar thermal is not usable in domestic or industrial setting until you can create sheet metal in bulk.
At which point it just plain does not produce enough heat for usess, especially with our dense forestry.

You notice how such thermal projects are usually centered around dry plains regions
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Not every industrial applications need 2000 degree celsius. Some just need hot water. Not everything is in the middle of the forest. All solar heaters I found use something like two window size panels for heating.
 
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