Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
The choice to free the slaves kills us.
the choice to back out gets us nothing and effectively means we have no way to fix things for the next 100 years.
The war option is the only one that doesn't have potential collapse by the end of the turn.
Actually, we're explicitly winning, but expensively and slowly, which is making our King go mad because he's a superhuman empath and he feels all the people dying where other kings only see numbers.
Our armies hadn't even ARRIVED yet. it's just Red Banner vs everything there.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
On a side note, whoops, Terrify includes war crimes after all.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
The war crimes are from the reason of war declaration.
If we wernt going in to free slaves then their would not have been those war crimes.
Uh...not much of one? We threatened to free their slaves and let them do unto others, if they didn't surrender. We marched in and freed the slaves. They did unto others.
This wouldn't even be a modern day atrocity(though it'd be a failure of justice), much less an iron age one.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
I just noticed this.
Guess what ?
Simply stop acting as if sending people to die and kill puts you on a moral high ground.
Because it really really doesn't.
I think the King option here is also about the philosophy he uses to deal with it, which makes sense because we got Philosopher Kings. So the King will look towards that on how to deal with stress. Given that the nation as a whole looks to the King as a trendsetter, it's likely to be emulated. So I tried to find the schools of thought AN was referencing. So far I have only found Absurdism.
Absurdism - Wikipedia
Could some of our more philosophy savvy members chip in to figure out what else AN might have referenced and how that affects our culture as a whole?
Absurdism - Wikipedia
Could some of our more philosophy savvy members chip in to figure out what else AN might have referenced and how that affects our culture as a whole?
- Location
- Australia
No it would be a war crime, even the holocaust concentration camp prisoners killing their guards after they were freed by US troops was a war crime, understandable but letting them do it is definitely a war crime by the geneva Convention.
NewAgeOfPower
Engineering Pornagrapher Extraordinaire
- Location
- An Certain Hive of Scum & Villainy, known as NYC
In three months, if you start another quest, where one option is to [] Declare war to free teh slaves111!
It will still win by a landslide.
I don't care what the spirit chief has to say. Listening to him got us into this huge mess.
Doesn't actually end slavery, they just buy more with our cash. They're not going to make nice with us because we paid them, they'll be sharpening their knives and looking for a chance to get revenge, because, from their point of view (by WoAN, no less) we Betrayed them.
Oh, mechanically? GA loss guaranteed. Potential stability death spiral.
Plus, we barely got started with the war. We've been in it for 0.5 turns.
I personally did not vote to attack to free the slaves, I was hoping we'd fight for more pragmatic reasons. But we are commited now.
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- Location
- Staring into the void
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] [King] Embrace Anger
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
You may want to look at my post history, 'cause I think that has something to do with it. I was telling BungieONI about Absurdism earlier.
Technically speaking, neither international treaties, the city of Geneva or Switzerland have been invented yet. So we have a couple thousand years before it's a war crime.
Also as the slaves aren't our soldiers, their violence would, legally, be random murder due to wartime conditions. Our soldiers would only be responsible if they actively enabled or encouraged it.
...granted, we have an official government declaration that this is what we would do, but I can't really care about the plight of slavering assholes. Longterm, it may encourage civs to treat their slaves well because when they get an opportunity, they may be less willing to take it.
[X] [King] Embrace the Absurd
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
Yeah, absurdism may be the best bet then unless someone else makes a good case for the others.
Although I'm curious if our society can handle absurdism. It's an Enlightenment philosophy, after all.
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
Yeah, absurdism may be the best bet then unless someone else makes a good case for the others.
Although I'm curious if our society can handle absurdism. It's an Enlightenment philosophy, after all.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You know it's bad when you want to yandere for the King and kidnap/rescue him from the kingship.
#IWannaTakeHimHomeWithMe
#ComfortableBasement
#SaveTheCinnamonRoll
#IWannaTakeHimHomeWithMe
#ComfortableBasement
#SaveTheCinnamonRoll
- Location
- Austria
We are also getting farther and farther from homeland, and we cannot engage Trelli in a naval fight to give supplies to our forces. So it is either all the fouraging in which case we will have done way more damage to locals than helped or marching with empty stomachs.
And we are far from the city itself yet. We are not guaranteed at all to even have an option to march all the way there due to supplies issue.
Fake-Edit: As was pointed out, Dragon Banner is marching towards Trelli cap from the Tinriver. Setting aside the question of how the fuck they got here (probably shipped over to Tinriver, although it means it, for some reason, is not blockaded by Trelli navy?), it sorta makes situation...different? They are still reliant on land supply route from Tinriver, which goes through hostile land, and our forces are not going to go full mobile raiding force ravaging the countryside for sustenance, so I still am unsure how are they going to feed themselves.
It doesn't, but SV tends to look at itself as a bastion of paragonship and then walk backwards to find or invent the reasons.
To be fair, it's less of SV thing and more of a human thing.
Care to elaborate on the bolded part?
Also, what potential collapse? Where? The worst that's going to happen is losing of GA due to Stability damage, and it's a thing that's going to happen in almost any route unless we magically stop taking Stability hits from the war despite so far taking stability hits from every update, not even turn, of war.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The enemy does not have complete naval dominance, but neither do we. That means that we can't land on their shores, but neither can they fully interdict our supply lines.
-1 to -2 from the choice, -1 from losing wealth, -0 to -1 from losing Trade, -0 to -1 from refugees, -0 to -1 from Temp econ damage
-1 to -2 from the choice, -1 from losing wealth, -0 to -1 from losing Trade, -0 to -1 from refugees, -0 to -1 from Temp econ damage
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Stab lost from low wealth,
Stab lost from taking in all the slaves we free, considering were spending 15 wealth it is propyl going to be allot of them.
Stab hit from the fucking ???.
GA is dead unless we get a perfect rolls, which I doubt we will get.
Stab lost for a overall worthless war and our king going insane.
Stab lost from refuges other then slaves.
even if we don't die this turn from stab lose giving the Trell 15 wealth is going to most certainly going to make them stronger then before their civil war, which in tern means that voting to free all the slaves is a fucking worse sunk cost, the Trell are going to replace the lost slaves before the turn is out.
And of course the sudden increase of Piracy which will like get worse.
Supplying the troops is something we can do as our ships simply outrun theirs. They can see the ships coming, but they just zoom past. Closer to the cities this simply doesn't work very well as we are forced into a pitched naval battle. Even that we can sorta do, but our ships are vastly better at hit and run attacks, which is not an option when landing troops.
It's also a function of the local geography. The Straits have always been nigh impossible to take from the sea. Hence why we march along the coast. There we can be regularly resupplied and work our way towards Trelli itself.
As to plundering: Presumably we help ourselves to the enemy Companies supplies where possible, buy/confiscate supplies from occupied settlements and have the rest shipped in. AN said we had trouble projecting force that far, hence why we won't deploy a lot of War Missions, but culturally we don't leave people with so little they starve. Also, the way it works in this time period, conquered settlements didn't sabotage their invaders at every opportunity. Both for fear of reprisals and because the things they sabotage are the things they need to life. And while the army will just move on, they are stuck on their burned fields.
[X] [King] Embrace the Absurd
[X] [War] Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)
I almost hope to lose the war vote, but the narrative weight of this choice tempts me so much. The Ymaryn paying a terrible price in blood and treasure to secure the freedom of others just because it's the right thing to do? Proving that we entered this war not in hopes of material gains but to protect the inaliable rights the gods bestowed on all of mankind? It's just irresistible.
Besides, it doesn't seem like this war would get us Trelli proper. Let's save that war until right after we discover steel and before anyone else has a chance to steal it.
[X] [War] Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)
I almost hope to lose the war vote, but the narrative weight of this choice tempts me so much. The Ymaryn paying a terrible price in blood and treasure to secure the freedom of others just because it's the right thing to do? Proving that we entered this war not in hopes of material gains but to protect the inaliable rights the gods bestowed on all of mankind? It's just irresistible.
Besides, it doesn't seem like this war would get us Trelli proper. Let's save that war until right after we discover steel and before anyone else has a chance to steal it.