Yeah, the Ymaryn are bad enough when it comes to agricultural production, with the added fact Im pretty sure out side of China, which hasn't really unified yet, there won't be anywhere near as centralized control over the agriculture as elsewhere.

For all the clusterfuck avoiding hereditary land ownership has been it's had a huge and unique impact in that agriculture is incredibly important from a societal and cultural perspective it's not a source of wealth. Our aristocratic elite hold much less sway over our agriculture than they do in our cities, church, military, merchants, and guilds. We more directly administrate both our largest source of labor, military recruiting pool, and food supply- and it's shit like that that allows for all these mega projects here and OTL with stuff like Qin's Great Wall.

That's a huge advantage in leveraging our agricultural capability that at best the Khemetri approach.

Once we can leverage that top down administrative approach to the fertile Lowlands and implement all these labor intensive improvements to agriculture, I wouldn't be surprised that in potential agricultural output you'd need an early united China to compare.

I'm not going to argue that our administrative powers over land, and our capacity to redistribute it and redevelop it as needed are our singular key to success, but I definitely think it's layed the foundation of it.
 
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[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)

I'll take admin genius over random. Martial would be useless, mystic might be actively detrimental with our high RA.
 
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[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)

Everyone is so gung-ho about Kicking PttS... but we're at critical RA. I'm not sure we should be so eager about jacking up our RA even more.

[X] [React] Main Expand Forests
 
Oh. Hmm I hadn't thought about PttS affecting RA.

*scratches chin*

Here's hoping it increases our tolerance if it does raise the value. Or that we can deal with the decisions at red RA.

5+ million in total, at this point, according to AN
That is probably including the survivors of the Bollide at least in some capacity, the last number included our subordinates too.
 
"Most of history", sure. As I've said, I was talking about ~1600-2000, or maybe say ~1600-1900, when Europe had a massive lead not only tech-wise or economy-wise but also population-wise. And the point is, the other parts of the world eventually caught up again.

Sorry to say it but in that timeframe from what i can find china had still more pop. / the same pop as all of europe that only really changes if you start counting the pop that could be could outside of europe and even then no single nation had more than china. You aren´t beating 30% of the world pop that easy (yeah china had at time more than 30% of the overall world population ...), hey at least that is something we could try to match :evil:.

Best source i could find : List of countries by population in 1600 - Wikipedia (there sadly isn´t that much data for the pop outside of europe that i could find.)
that compares the nations overall pop (including oversee ) number for 1700 and forward are also there in links up to the 1900 where the Uk came pretty close to beating china as they had india to give them a boost.

In the eco, tech department yeah they beat china there, but they never had the amount of people china has.
 
Do we have access to a reliable method for increasing tolerance or lowering RA?
Sadly no to both. Temples and RA are much like Trails and Cent was for us a while back, no way to really mess with them. It's why the thread was so happy with Wildcat and why Personal Stewards is so good.

My best guess for how to increase tolerance is to build enough temples that we get a theological innovation that boosts tolerance much like roads are now raising the RA cap.

As to lowering RA, midturn actions are the only current way we know. We have gotten a couple of events that let us do this.

However, yellow organizational stats tend to spawn events that can put the value back into white, in one of two ways. One is by physically lowering the value, and the second is by spawning an innovation that raises tolerance(with cent and hierarchy this has mostly come from those values putting us into a situation to get a new government type so it is sadly a bit of a stretch). And red really spawn those sorts of changes, there was one time during the reign of Rulwyna I and her husbands where we directly lowered cent when it was red.


So basically we have to get some kind of theological innovation that lets us handle it. Which is a bit of a bitch since we are sorta cramped right now.
 
So basically we have to get some kind of theological innovation that lets us handle it.
Well, AFAICT, religion hasn't actually hindered government since the time of WotG. Worst case scenario at high RA, the priests get more influence, and... we get new Stability options? More cultural influence on vassals? They don't stand in the way of innovation any more.
 
This is all just something I've been thinking about. Don't take it as completely correct just kind of correct.



The ways we are like the Prussians and maybe this isn't necessarily a 100% good thing.

1 the way we fight

The way we both fight is Highly aggressive field army versus field Army always pushing with a lot of War missions. we both have a high focus on having pound for pound the best fighting Force in the area generally through technology or our values. Like Life of Arete and Honourable Death Values combined probably act very similar to a hypothetical Prussian honour values.

The big difference is that all their Martial is tied up in their futuristic version of mercenary companies and their defence is built on keeping them alive until they can win the decisive battle. our defence is built on our high passive Martial that holds off the attack until the mercenary companies and the muster bring the forces to bear.

The reason for the similarity is the poor defensive position of us both. In Prussia's case their defence infrastructure is ok but geography for the north European plain dooms them defensively. in our case the geography is good but the defensive infrastructure has always been poor. It's possible for us to change this but it will need a lot of resources put into it. So a little Different.


2 the way we Empire

the Prussian way to empire is blood and iron, ours is the same. The Prussian drive to the unification of Germany has its roots in the wars that turned the holy Roman Empire into the Battleground of Europe. The destruction of the HRE by Napoleon let the Prussians use their strong Army and the promise that Never Again will Germany be the Battleground to convince the German principalities through their willingness and ability to fight and win against the great powers of the time. Also the push to industrialize all of Germany was the carrot to the previous stick.

We are surprisingly similar. Most of our wars have been either to destroy an existential threat or to protect a vassal. And the justification for vassalizing states have always been to protect them or us. And the way we keep them inline is similar as giving out aid and technology and using our army to protect them from Outsiders, this also reminds them of what we will do if they rise in rebellion.

The only big difference is our Pride in Acceptance lets us hold people of different culture without pissing them off too much. But the Prussians were such assholes to non Germans that they could never hold them without force. The problem comes as more and different cultures are added to our Empire putting it all on Pride in Acceptance to smoove over the cultural differences is likely to be insufficient.
 
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Well, AFAICT, religion hasn't actually hindered government since the time of WotG. Worst case scenario at high RA, the priests get more influence, and... we get new Stability options? More cultural influence on vassals? They don't stand in the way of innovation any more.
You are probably right, though there was one other incident which was riding horses during the time Rulthymyn, Rulwyna I's father.

We will be fine, they aren't going to break us over their knees, but red RA might spawn some interesting events.
 
[X] [GA] Mitigate Nemesis Fashion (-5 Culture)
[X] [GA] Erase Nemesis Fashion (-10 Culture)
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Diplo genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)
 
Their intervention there was not necessarily a bad thing. They didn't try to stop the king, they just expressed legitimate concerns about animal welfare.
*waves hand* I wasn't really thinking of it in terms of a bad thing. Just laying out an example where they spoke up in a way similar to the times of WotG in my mind.
 
@Academia Nut

Have our people noticed that adding lead into wine makes it sweet? Did the Shamans beat up the guy suggested?

Has there been instances that a specific shaman was requested to conduct health inspection for nobles? Have the shamans been keeping journals?

Are the low-skilled servants employees by the nobles and officials legally entitled to wage and freedom of movement? Has there been mentions of people disappearing?
 
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Hrmmm...*tugs beard*

*does some intense thinking*


Huh.

As of <Decision point> our policy spread looked like this.

1 base + 3(cities) + 1 Law Infra + 1(census) with an assignment like this:

3x Infra(+1 the unlisted Law), 1x Forest, 1 Defense. With Stallionpen and Redhill now existing we have two unassigned.

If we assume that Redhill and Redshore both become FC's then they will both take two other policies. Redshore is likely to take Trade, which narratively is mostly sea based but they do have to sell to people near us so I figure the HK will be included some fashion. Likely quite limited but this is a factor I think we should keep in mind. It also may not work this way, we should ask AN when/if it happens.

And I'd see Redhill going for Industry for that sweet sweet Tech drip you, and also I, like. Narratively probably gives a subtle flavor to our innovations towards metal *shrug* that's speculation though.

So all in all we have two to play with. One in general trade to try and keep the Diplo-wagon going and one in vassal support to slow the potential break away and to set the bed for our influence use. Vassal support is quite useful with the sheer number we have as well and actually gives another slot. In particular we also have to think about the NTP now on top of our two new gains and the NTP could use the trickle feed from Vassal Support till it is no longer in yellow dependency.

If only one is converted then we would be sorta restricted in our choices.

It'd be Redhill, so we'd have only a Industry thing going if my speculation is right. But we'd still have two unassigned and one could be trade and another could be vassal. So less focus on trade, but we would actually be actively spending a policy on it. I could see the thread actually going for trade and vassal more here, instead of the one where we get both FC's.

I guess this is all simply stuff to think about, I'm certainly not trying to sell you on anything. Just shaking out the probable picture we'd be seeing as far as I can guess.
On the Policy, I'm dubious of them going for the Trade and Industry policies off archetypes alone.

Our subordinates are not stupid.
They go for local optima, which means that the most important Policy for any Free City is Infrastructure, because it's the only policy that directly invests in the health and prosperity of their local city.

So lets look at Redhill and Redshore's infrastructure
-Aqueduct - Done. Desired due to disease lowering effect and powering mills. Raises City's EE threshold.
-Baths - Not done(Partial in Redshore). Desired due to disease lowering effect. Raises City's EE threshold. Requires Fuel, so may be deferred for Forestry.

-Governor's Palace - Not Done. Desired due to utility for Free City administration power.
-Library - Not Done. Desired due to utility for Free City administration power, as well as innovation and inter-city competitiveness.

-Temple - Not done. May or may not be desired, if desired, Redshore wants a not-yet-represented by temple sea god as well as the miner god, and Redhill wants the miner god. May be deferred if RA is too high.
-Colossal Walls - Not done. May be desired due to boosting City Stability by raising EE limit. May be desired for increased access control(which boosts the Free City's administration power by quashing smuggling). May be deferred for cities in safe areas or due to high progress cost.

As such, Free Cities can be expected to prioritize Infrastructure Policy first to build stuff for themselves due to the doubling of progress. They can on their own finish 2 projects every 3 turns except for the colossal walls, and that doubles if we set them to Infrastructure as well.
Damn it, I blame the HIGH RA, people actually listened to stop fornicating because they asked
Actually no, we've been able to do this since the ancient drought before the Three Peoples, which left a deep cultural scar such that we centrally regulate the number of children you are allowed to have.

All of these is basically the Advantage of Backwardness.

For a long time, we could be considered the backwater of the Fertile Crescent, with the dominant power in the region being Thunder Horse/Xohyr. But this is precisely our advantage because we are forced to develop technology that remove the disadvantages of being in hilly terrains with crappy soil.

Similarly, other civilizations will eventually rise to prominence once they figure out how to farm their particular biome.

However, the Ymaryn is building a trading outpost that will let us take on new challenges to develop new agricultural technologies.
Basically, notice how our agricultural innovationed pretty much tapered off once we managed to master our local biome after all.

Sorry to say it but in that timeframe from what i can find china had still more pop. / the same pop as all of europe that only really changes if you start counting the pop that could be could outside of europe and even then no single nation had more than china. You aren´t beating 30% of the world pop that easy (yeah china had at time more than 30% of the overall world population ...), hey at least that is something we could try to match :evil:.

Best source i could find : List of countries by population in 1600 - Wikipedia (there sadly isn´t that much data for the pop outside of europe that i could find.)
that compares the nations overall pop (including oversee ) number for 1700 and forward are also there in links up to the 1900 where the Uk came pretty close to beating china as they had india to give them a boost.

In the eco, tech department yeah they beat china there, but they never had the amount of people china has.
The main thing keeping China back originally was that it was just too damned huge to administrate, so in it's early history it semiregularly broke up to stab each other, much like the lowlands.

Once it finally unified, it calcified because it was adapted to avoid the hell out of any stability shocks.
Well, AFAICT, religion hasn't actually hindered government since the time of WotG. Worst case scenario at high RA, the priests get more influence, and... we get new Stability options? More cultural influence on vassals? They don't stand in the way of innovation any more.
We had a few, but our Kings had always gotten their way over the priests so far due to low RA. Copper, Iron, horse riding, etc.

We've just shaped it so that for the most part the priests ask for things we want to do to begin with.
 
On the Policy, I'm dubious of them going for the Trade and Industry policies off archetypes alone.

Our subordinates are not stupid.
They go for local optima, which means that the most important Policy for any Free City is Infrastructure, because it's the only policy that directly invests in the health and prosperity of their local city.
Ah, but what if its the Traders ending up calling the internal political landscape in a free city?
 
We had a few, but our Kings had always gotten their way over the priests so far due to low RA. Copper, Iron, horse riding, etc.
Well, I don't really count anything before the crisis that gave us Love of Wisdom. That was when the People faced, not just a superstition, but the idea of superstition, head-on, and smacked it down.

Of course, myth and conjecture still abound, but even then, the People are studying and cross-checking and testing.

So I don't see a conflict any more between religion and learning.
 
The main thing keeping China back originally was that it was just too damned huge to administrate, so in it's early history it semiregularly broke up to stab each other, much like the lowlands.

Once it finally unified, it calcified because it was adapted to avoid the hell out of any stability shocks.

Pretty sure they more or less did what the ST? did and avoided the hell out of stability hits.
They also seemed to have stagnated quite hard shortly before europe started to get more powerful.

yeah the revolts that i did find where really ugly which cause a quite big lose of pop evertime it happened, but did grow back quite fast.
 
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I'm more bemused that we had a concept of animal welfare in the bronze age.
We had it since Sacred Warding. It comes from our Justice value, our anti-slavery value combined with our Stewards value.

Together they say that we may raise and slaughter animals for food, but that all plants and animals share common parents in Gwy and Goya, who are the parents of humanity. So what we take of them we must give back to them.
They do work for us and we feed them.
They feed and cloth us in death and so we protect and raise their young for eternity.
That which we cannot repay we offer to the gods in restitution.

Hence, unnecessary abuse of animals for amusement rests poorly with our priesthood because to them this is the first step on the path that leads to people treating other people the same way.

That is a name of the place, but where exactly does that mean they are religiously significant?

Remember Gwygotha was credited with being the mother of horses. They're one of the earlier, most important animals since prehistory, and religious osmosis from Nomads and Thunder Speaker says that whatever horses are, they're spiritually important.
 
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