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Paths of Civilization

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VoidZero said:
I'm betting on Admin king going FULL road next as each and every stat is overflowing.
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Roads only eat 1 Econ and return an equal amount of Diplomacy. If he builds roads it won't be because of stats. In any case, Centralisation is needed RIGHT NOW to deal with all the refugees we'll be taking in. It'll be years before Centralisation can begin to be made up by roads or other actions and by then the greatest need for the Centralisation will have already past.
 
Welp, I'm all for rolling this for every drop we can get from it. I'm going with Victory lap because I have the sneaking suspicion it might send to the HK, but even if it doesn't I'm hoping it'll just give us the best relations boost we're going to get.

Edit: On seeing more I've changed my minds on some things. I'm still learning a lot of the crunch behind the game, and seeing more about that has led me to prefer this lineup.

[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[OLD] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X][Diplo] Victory lap (Main Salt Gift)
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)

Oddly enough, we only needed peace with the HK because we were otherwise following the prophecy. Without it, we would have been a sudden existential threat that they knew hated them and would have struck while we were overextended handling the humanitarian crises. They would have fought us to the knife if they didn't already have assurance of our peacefulness.

As to magic... I'm going to put myself down as 'something is going on here'. I'm not sure if 'gods' is necessarily right. But I think there is something in the game mechanics that allows for supernatural feats and bending of events. What, ultimately, that is and how to tap into it, couldn't tell you, but Astrology seems like a decent start.
 
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It's amazing how committed people are to a materialist universe.

It reminds me of Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series, where he played along with the readers assumption that the Gods were made up, but in the next trilogy made it explicitly clear that they did exist and did interfere in the world. And there were plenty of clues in the first trilogy, but most readers dismissed them with Materialist explanations.

And also of Guy Gavriel Kay's pseudo historical works, where he made the point that it's a more immersive history if magic is real, because that means the readers can't just be smug that their modern, materialist view of the world is the correct one.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Aug 6, 2017 at 12:41 AM, finished with 96522 posts and 27 votes.
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Andres110 said:
Roads only eat 1 Econ and return an equal amount of Diplomacy. If he builds roads it won't be because of stats. In any case, Centralisation is needed RIGHT NOW to deal with all the refugees we'll be taking in. It'll be years before Centralisation can begin to be made up by roads or other actions and by then the greatest need for the Centralisation will have already past.
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I wouldn't be surprised if our King started eating subordinates while spamming Enforce Justice to boost our stat caps while keeping our centralization up.
 
*is still giddly tipsy about a fucking bolide impact smiting the Thunder Horse*


Best decision every guys! We got front row seats for the best show in the house! :V


Anyway to the vote.


[X] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)

[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)

[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability

[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)


[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [PSN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)

Either of these Conq choices is fine, though do note this will probably fill us up on "general slots" with the rest being subordinate specific, though I am not sure.

For Refugee In Service can tank the first point of this and it is only a chance for the next, so the total is really only an average of 0.5 stability. It also saves many while not leaving us undefended or over extended. Synergizes nicely with the above choices.

I don't really want to spend Stability. Getting into a GA so we can sort out our DB and some other things would be nice. Though it does have possible negative synergy with the prophecy of the God Fist. I also don't mind where it goes. If I recall correctly Black Mirror is more specific to a particular portion of the sky, while Horse Valley is more Sun and Moon focused and has excellent sight lines overall. Folks can look in Informational for the Holy Site descriptions.

Uhhhh.
Yeah, sending out we won't kill you's is probably a good idea. It also fosters our burgeoning international community! So that's good.

And some Black Soil to absorb the people we are taking in and consuming is a really good idea, especially if we want pop explosion to keep going.



And with that and my off the cuff reasons I will now start to think more deeply on the matter.
 
8bitBob said:
Khemetri: Oh God, what have we unleashed?
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Khemetri: Oh god, what have we unleashed?
Highland Kingdom: *phew* We are safe for now.......AIIIEEEEEEEEEE!
Thunder Horse: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Thunder Speaker: I am free??? I AM FREE!
Harmurri: THANK YOU Ymaryn-sempai!
Txolla: MOAR LAND!
Trelli: What's going on over there?
 
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Ghostdevil said:
That's because I don't really know How exactly she predicted... Well she didn't really Predict a comet, so much as she predicted something was going to happen that was bad and it had to do with the TH
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That, and the fact that she could see crows that told her where the enemies weakness is.

The evidence is mounting for a non-materialist world.
 
Yeangst said:
It's amazing how committed people are to a materialist universe.

It reminds me of Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series, where he played along with the readers assumption that the Gods were made up, but in the next trilogy made it explicitly clear that they did exist and did interfere in the world. And there were plenty of clues in the first trilogy, but most readers dismissed them with Materialist explanations.

And also of Guy Gavriel Kay's pseudo historical works, where he made the point that it's a more immersive history if magic is real, because that means the readers can't just be smug that their modern, materialist view of the world is the correct one.
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It also amazes me how committed people are to a Spiritualist universe, everything can be explained so far, though were starting to get stuff hard to explain due to how limited our point of view is.
Yeangst said:
That, and the fact that she could see crows that told her where the enemies weakness is.

The evidence is mounting for a non-materialist world.
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Not really, shes a Genius martial, so her talent is manifesting in her insanity
 
Academia Nut said:
It was like a shooting star, but like the sun was to a campfire. A tremendous streak of fire and light, it cleared the horizon in an instant, leaving an orange smear across the sky and smaller shooting stars trailing like courtiers in a king's retinue. Several heartbeats of terrified staring upwards and those who had been in their tents scrambling out to find out what had just happened, and a wall of sound crashed into their position. Tents were knocked over, and ears, eyes, and noses bled at the tremendous volume. More than one person was permanently deafened, and even those who regained their hearing knew that it had been diminished by the event. Many horses were also lost as they broke free from where they had been tied and ran away in blind panic at the cacophony.
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It's the only way to be sure...

​
 
So in terms of plans, I figure we've got two general archetypes to go with for conquest:

All Your Base Are Belong To Us:
[] [Conq] Push to the East (Gain all previously listed territories, forces actively fight with surviving Mountain Horse cities, -8 Econ and 8 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassals and distant war missions)
[] [Diplo] Victory lap (Main Salt Gift)

or

We're Really Nice Guys, We Swear!
[] [Conq] The land is cursed, pull back (Thunder Speakers break away, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)


Option one basically involves swaggering around because our God can kick your God's ass. Probably sets us on a path of domination for the foreseeable future as everyone is going to be scared silly of us and expect the hammer to come down. Option two basically goes around reassuring everyone that we're not gonna come take their stuff, but our God's are still mighty. Has a decent chance of granting us an extended period of peace.


Obviously there's some middle ground to be taken, with us reassuring everyone but also conquering large swaths of land. I'm a bit leery of trying to have our cake and eat it too though.
 
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)

The holy sites, I think Black Mirror isn't on that list:
Academia Nut said:
Horse Valley - Location: Stonepen

A broad box canyon that has had living structures sprout up along the perimeter, Horse Valley serves both as a place to house sacred herds of cattle and horses for the Stonepen region and as the premier star gazing location, renowned for its clear nights and excellent sight lines. While a favorite with locals and mystically inclined shamans, it is far enough off the main trails that it gets comparatively little attention for its age. The founding of the Heaven's Hawk has considerably increased its traffic, and sacred falconers have begun to appear among the priests and shamans.

Star Mirror - Location: Blackriver

A curiously out of place sinkhole in dark stone, the water that collects in this secluded place is always dark and clear, and thus when the sun sets it becomes a perfect mirror for the heaven's above. While not as good for the direct study of stars, many priests and shamans claim to have nearly lost themselves in the glittering dark, their souls detached from their bodies. There have also been assuredly been those who literally lost themselves to the surprisingly water through accident or darker means. Aside from disturbing the water, there is also a fairly strong current of mysterious source just beneath the surface that is believed to be part of what keeps the water so clean.
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If Star Mirror is Black Mirror, then Horse Valley is superior as a site to build PttS.
 
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Thomasfoolery said:
Yes, there is some vague talk about it in our origin stories (Not even specifically calling it out as a meteor I think) but nothing that would place it into any sort of context that could be useful. So maybe it was just a blind guess that paid off, that's somewhat possible, but the idea she logically used that prior info to make the deduction doesn't hold up.
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One star in the skies grows brighter every day, not for the first or second time since records, she and the priests notice it since they're looking at the sky, she calculates luminosity change, calculates speed and distance from it, goes into records, finds out where it was recorded that comet came really close, with time, speed and distance calculates orbit, finds out that it's hella unstable and gonna hit us, tells everyone about that.
 
SamPardi said:
As to magic... I'm going to put myself down as 'something is going on here'. I'm not sure if 'gods' is necessarily right. But I think there is something in the game mechanics that allows for supernatural feats and bending of events. What, ultimately, that is and how to tap into it, couldn't tell you, but Astrology seems like a decent start.
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Gods do exist in universe...the dice gods!
Yeangst said:
It's amazing how committed people are to a materialist universe.

It reminds me of Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series, where he played along with the readers assumption that the Gods were made up, but in the next trilogy made it explicitly clear that they did exist and did interfere in the world. And there were plenty of clues in the first trilogy, but most readers dismissed them with Materialist explanations.

And also of Guy Gavriel Kay's pseudo historical works, where he made the point that it's a more immersive history if magic is real, because that means the readers can't just be smug that their modern, materialist view of the world is the correct one.
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If this really does go full magic and divination, I am not sure if I will continue reading. I liked this BECAUSE we were leading a civilization through history and trying to survive its natural forces. I didn't sign up for DnD!
 
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)

Centralization dropping in exchange for more Enforce Justice is always worthwhile. This drops our stability potentially to 0, but that doesn't start triggering cascade failure. -12 temp econ damage and -2 econ from PttS, but we've got plenty of econ to handle that. We will need to do some Enforce, but that's fine.

Horse Valley because it is
Academia Nut said:
the premier star gazing location, renowned for its clear nights and excellent sight lines.
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The mirror is neat, but it's not actually useful for star-studying.
 
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[x] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)

She managed to chart the path of a meteorite! How the heck do you manage to do that in the Iron Age? God damn, only the best Ptolemic astronomers were able to chart the sun, planets, and constellations. That's how our Admin Hero couldn't figure it out. As long as you have the concept of ratios and zero, calculus isn't impossible to figure out for someone. However, for someone who didn't know the math theory, and couldn't learn about it from the source, it would seem basically incomprehensible. Our Mystic Genius figured it out, but couldn't communicate it to others.

That's obviously what she wanted with our history and astronomy records. She basically looked at all of the records and managed to conclude that we were due for a meteor strike. Given the Khemtri had Predictive Astronomy, they were probably tracking comets, meteorites and other celestial bodies. She managed to extrapolate from those records and figure that one of the 'stars' was flying unstably. After all, you don't need a heliocentric conception of the universe to be able to accurately track celestial objects.

Savants can sometimes make extremely impressive calculations with nothing more than intuition, that's how she knew. Meteor strikes aren't that uncommon and there was at least two more that we know of. The first that became the Star Axe and the second to the north where we first got Meteoric Iron prior to the first Golden Age. Thousands of years should be enough time for another 'random' meteor strike to occur by chance.

:)
 
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*Wakes up to Ymaryn casting meteor*
Alrighty then.

[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
We help everyone we can without forcing more fights.

[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
This is why we evolved to PiA. We will save them all.

[] [PttS] Black Mirror
I recall this location being the most appropriate for stargazing. I might be wrong though, don't base your votes off this vague recollection.
Edit: I remember why I like Black Mirror now, spooky waters! Always good to have some focus spared to things happening beneath our feet. Also, with soon to come optics, the point of less clear skies becomes moot.
More edits: Second thoughts due to it not being that efficient till optics, though.
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
Even more edits: I now agree that this would be best choice for PttS.
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
Stability reserved for keeping peace and order with this new influx of refugees.

[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
No, no, we just got enough mana for that spell. It has one hell of a cooldown too, so Trelli, if you would clean house before it refreshes, things would be mighty fine.

[X] [PSN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
Obviously TREES!!! are our base mana points. Just keep planting more trees.
 
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[X] [Conq] The land is cursed, pull back (Thunder Speakers break away, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)

We have way too much on our plate. Taking in land is too much of an issue right now in more ways than one.

notgreat said:
Centralization dropping in exchange for more Enforce Justice is always worthwhile.
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This is incorrect. It is not worthwhile now. The Centralisation should be kept as high as possible so we can handle the refugees as well as possible and to increase the bonus of our Admin King as much possible.
 
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley

Convinced to switch to a -1 cent option. Remember, we need 3 cent for our current disaster-relief level; better not drop it lower than that, I think.

And a small amount of black soil does wonders in terms of filling up our EE.

(By the way. Looking forward to a True City in Lower Valleyhome, maybe? You know, now that we've burned all of our EE and need the space?)
 
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Ghostdevil said:
It also amazes me how committed people are to a Spiritualist universe, everything can be explained so far, though were starting to get stuff hard to explain due to how limited our point of view is.

Not really, shes a Genius martial, so her talent is manifesting in her insanity
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You know, our priests didn't say, "it looks like one of the stars looks like it's getting close and might land near the thunder horse," they said, " if you do this, this and this, then good things will happen for the Ymaryns."
 
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [Diplo] Victory lap (Main Salt Gift)
[X] [PSN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)
 
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agumentic said:
One star in the skies grows brighter every day, not for the first or second time since records, she and the priests notice it since they're looking at the sky, she calculates luminosity change, calculates speed and distance from it, goes into records, finds out where it was recorded that comet came really close, with time, speed and distance calculates orbit, finds out that it's hella unstable and gonna hit us, tells everyone about that.
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If the star had been observed growing brighter I could see that as a possible explanation (For some of it), I got the impression it hadn't but perhaps that just wasn't mentioned in the text.
 
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