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Paths of Civilization

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Timewinders said:
Guys, there's nothing to gain from intervening in the Swamp Folk and TH. We're not Team America: World Police. We're trying to live peacefully so long as we are left alone, only going to war to eliminate threats. We should continue to do that. War against the HK is justified because they have proven to be a consistent threat to us, stabbing us in the back at every opportunity, sabotaging us, and stealing our tech. The TH might be unfriendly, but they are not a consistent threat. There's no reason we couldn't make peace with the TH once their war is over.
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We lose prestige so long as the Swamp Folk are losing because they are a part of the games and being attacked by someone who is not a part of the games.
The TH have also been consistently insulting us, and will take a swing at us as soon as we are distracted by something else.

Attacking them now will make the Swamp Folk like us more preemptively kicks the TH in the teeth, and if the HK are stupid enough to attack us again we can just conquer them wholesale.
 
NewAgeOfPower said:
We are already administratively stressed hard by our current empire. More land is bad for us.

War missions resulting in land grab generate less for our civ than the same actions invested into building it up.

And yet, I still cry Highlander Kingdon Delenda Est. Think about it.
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The war is as likely to entice the Highlanders to attack as not; tis a gamble, and the dice favours the bold.

As for land, we need not hold it directly, vassal territory is as good as direct dominion(on the borders at least) .
 
Andres110 said:
I have a question about the interplay between Pride in Acceptance and In Service to Order. If I had to guess, the first Econ boost we get is Stability-free because while we take a Stability drop from disruption, it's balanced out by a Stability gain from our people being happy from taking in refugees. Does In Service to Order mean that that hypothetical Stability drop doesn't happen, thus leaving us with the +1 Stability from taking in refugees?
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If there is insufficient refugees to risk a stab drop, In Service of Order does not trigger. If the risk doesn't come through then it does not trigger. So you can potentially take up to 3 hits without stab loss, assuming you weren't hit by whatever triggered the refugee waves in the first place (in which case you were protected).

Abby Normal said:
wait... @Academia Nut i just realized something...do we not have our defensive passive policy anymore? its not on the policy effects bit... o_O
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Ooops. Will fix.
 
McLuvin said:
*Sigh*. This is why we always fall out. You act like this

Yeah, I'm leaving.
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I'm not the one who started his argument by spewing nonsense speculation about us not being able to win, before dropping it entirely to claim 'we can totally fight them both at once if it comes down to it.' Pick a stance and keep it, and probably keep away from emphatic 'fuck the Highlanders' declarations that bring me to pointing out your bias makes you a poor choice to listen to for objectively good advice.
 
Timewinders said:
Guys, there's nothing to gain from intervening in the Swamp Folk and TH. We're not Team America: World Police. We're trying to live peacefully so long as we are left alone, only going to war to eliminate threats. We should continue to do that. War against the HK is justified because they have proven to be a consistent threat to us, stabbing us in the back at every opportunity, sabotaging us, and stealing our tech. The TH might be unfriendly, but they are not a consistent threat. There's no reason we couldn't make peace with the TH once their war is over.
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Thunder Horse also attacked us before, and they are pretty angry at us right now. Defending the Swamp People means we go to war with them at our terms instead of theirs.

My bet is that some kind of meteorological os astrological event will weaken the Swamp People considerably, and the TH will use that to take them over, using that win to solidify their own country. With that done, they will be a more credible threat to the People, especially if we have to contend with the potentially rebellious former HK province.
 
People, do remember.

This bit is the actual prophecy. All the declaring war stuff is just interpretation by the priests.

Academia Nut said:
"I'll gloss over the details that got us here, but within the turning of the next solstice we must let go of one enemy, take up a shield for a friendly stranger, and bring forth a dragon and dragon egg to the east," the Spirit Chief explained
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An alternative scenario.

1. Make friends with the Khmeri
2. Defend the Toxcla
3. Get our general
4. Send the Dragon Banner East
 
bluefur87 said:
[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)

I was going to vote for no, but Sivantic brought up a very important point. This is not just the study of the stars and relating it to what is happening on the ground. This is the study of history and learning from it to predict how people will act and events will play out. Yes, it's incredibly primitive, but we have to start somewhere, and this encourages our priest cast to keep large and accurate recordings of history, so that we may learn from it. That is of immense importance to education and having education dictate politics rather than politicians just ignoring others and claiming to know what is best.

We also need to work to protect our budding international community, which is incredibly vulnerable at this point. Maintaining friendly contact among multiple culture groups and showing to all others that there is good reason to do so is of great importance. Otherwise we risk losing members and losing the international community.
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It's impossible to consistently predict how people will behave. You can predict weather patterns to some extent, but people are too complicated. Not many people predicted Trump becoming president, for example. Even the best hedge fund managers lose against index funds in the stock market. Even with 2016 technology, drawing conclusions on future behavior based on past behavior is very unreliable.
 
To the lowlands faction do not let the Thunder Horse conquer the SF or else we may start losing our gains there especially with the introduction of iron in the region. We can not let our long held ambitions slip through our fingers.
 
The only two things we know right now is that the Genius is good at math and that her minder is good at selling her work to others.

Do you guys really want to set foreign policy because somebody ran a good sales pitch? We are being sold snake oil at best and snake venom at worst.
 
Timewinders said:
Guys, there's nothing to gain from intervening in the Swamp Folk and TH. We're not Team America: World Police. We're trying to live peacefully so long as we are left alone, only going to war to eliminate threats. We should continue to do that. War against the HK is justified because they have proven to be a consistent threat to us, stabbing us in the back at every opportunity, sabotaging us, and stealing our tech. The TH might be unfriendly, but they are not a consistent threat. There's no reason we couldn't make peace with the TH once their war is over.
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You are directly and specifically wrong.
Academia Nut said:
Gain New CB - Intervention
As King of the Hill, every turn after the first that you have an Intervention CB lose 1 Prestige for not using it​
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The Ymaryn are now required to go to war to defend outsiders, otherwise we will suffer a constant drain on Prestige, which will eventually drop the Subordinate State limit, thus provoking a loss of land, and causing the whole nation to implode.

AN is going to have the Ymaryn enter a Civil War, Dark Age, or Social Fracture, no matter what we do. That's the point of everything that's being altered lately. The war against the Khemetri was supposed to break the Ymaryn, but didn't, so other mechanisms are being employed.
 
Azel said:
The only two things we know right now is that the Genius is good at math and that her minder is good at selling her work to others.

Do you guys really want to set foreign policy because somebody ran a good sales pitch? We are being sold snake oil at best and snake venom at worst.
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Yup. Heroic Mystic doesn't mean wverything will come out correct. You can do great work comparing star records, but if that comparison is pointless, nothing will work.

As they say : Garbage In, Garbage out.
 
Since the early beginnings of this quest, I've held the belief that magic is real. Holding on to that axiom, there's really only one thing I can vote.

[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)

Sorry, Yenyna.
 
Choosing yes is either touching the oven to see if it's hot or 5 turns of golden age goodness.
 
Godwinson said:
You are directly and specifically wrong.

The Ymaryn are now required to go to war to defend outsiders, otherwise we will suffer a constant drain on Prestige, which will eventually drop the Subordinate State limit, thus provoking a loss of land, and causing the whole nation to implode.

AN is going to have the Ymaryn enter a Civil War, Dark Age, or Social Fracture, no matter what we do. That's the point of everything that's being altered lately. The war against the Khemetri was supposed to break the Ymaryn, but didn't, so other mechanisms are being employed.
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The TH are already winning. As long as their war ends soon we don't have anything to worry about. Further, we can gain prestige in other ways.
 
Azel said:
The only two things we know right now is that the Genius is good at math and that her minder is good at selling her work to others.

Do you guys really want to set foreign policy because somebody ran a good sales pitch? We are being sold snake oil at best and snake venom at worst.
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No, what we know is:

The Genius is good at math and knows quite a bit of history, and is able to predict a geological event occurring soon based on our history.

The priests, who keep up with our history and traditions, agree with her math and her predictions.

Also, she is not a child, and the priest is not a minder. There is no need for you to treat her as such.
 
Azel said:
like they try to do with us.
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Our priests have never done this?
There was one time with the spirit-touched guy where the priests were like "we don't know what to do with this guy, maybe these words mean something?" and we in turn set up heathcare for the injured.
They tried to say "abuse of animals is wrong" but we overruled them anyway, and that wasn't really a bamboozling.
Godwinson said:
AN is going to have the Ymaryn enter a Civil War, Dark Age, or Social Fracture, no matter what we do. That's the point of everything that's being altered lately. The war against the Khemetri was supposed to break the Ymaryn, but didn't, so other mechanisms are being employed.
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I don't think so. It's definitely getting a lot harder, but we should be able to stick it through. That CB basically forces us to maintain a balance of powers which helps us ensure that no one else gets too strong. This isn't all that bad of a thing in realpolitik terms.
 
Godwinson said:
You are directly and specifically wrong.

The Ymaryn are now required to go to war to defend outsiders, otherwise we will suffer a constant drain on Prestige, which will eventually drop the Subordinate State limit, thus provoking a loss of land, and causing the whole nation to implode.

AN is going to have the Ymaryn enter a Civil War, Dark Age, or Social Fracture, no matter what we do. That's the point of everything that's being altered lately. The war against the Khemetri was supposed to break the Ymaryn, but didn't, so other mechanisms are being employed.
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Nah, we'll simply loose King of the Hill.
 
[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)

I think at the end of the day i'm going with this because I don't think we have a good chance of going to war with the Highlanders next turn anyway so might as well get some revenge.
 
On the one hand, this sounds a lot like most of our other proto-science wrapped up in mystical babble, as usual. There appears to be a system involving historical records at play that dictates these actions. I feel there's a strong chance of this leading to further scientific advancements.

On the other hand, Highlands Delende Est.

Decisions, decisions...
 
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Azel said:
The only two things we know right now is that the Genius is good at math and that her minder is good at selling her work to others.

Do you guys really want to set foreign policy because somebody ran a good sales pitch? We are being sold snake oil at best and snake venom at worst.
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Most people have expressed some variation of the opinion that this is the best way to test Astrology/Love of Wisdom, rather than because they believe the predictions. Accusing them of buying into superstitions will do nothing to change their vote because that's not what they're doing.
 
Godwinson said:
The Ymaryn are now required to go to war to defend outsiders, otherwise we will suffer a constant drain on Prestige, which will eventually drop the Subordinate State limit, thus provoking a loss of land, and causing the whole nation to implode.

AN is going to have the Ymaryn enter a Civil War, Dark Age, or Social Fracture, no matter what we do. That's the point of everything that's being altered lately. The war against the Khemetri was supposed to break the Ymaryn, but didn't, so other mechanisms are being employed.
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1. we have 2 open slots for subordinates So unless you think that war is going to go on for 20+ turns....
2. We can simply not invite them to the next set of games.
3. Being stupide because the AN wants us to be is moronic
4. This argument means the best thing to do would be to kill the highlanders.
 
Raichu1972 said:
The Genius is good at math and knows quite a bit of history, and is able to predict a geological event occurring soon based on our history.

The priests, who keep up with our history and traditions, agree with her math and her predictions
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You're distorting the truth.

She corellated history with star movements. To insinuate this is a prediction based solely on math and histort is blatantly wrong.
 
Godwinson said:
The Ymaryn are now required to go to war to defend outsiders, otherwise we will suffer a constant drain on Prestige, which will eventually drop the Subordinate State limit, thus provoking a loss of land, and causing the whole nation to implode.
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we have a lot of prestige to go before that happens
ETA50M said:
To the lowlands faction do not let the Thunder Horse conquer the SF or else we may start losing our gains there especially with the introduction of iron in the region. We can not let our long held ambitions slip through our fingers.
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sauce as to the clear trend toward a TH victory?
 
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