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Paths of Civilization

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Susano said:
Hypocrisy much? You accuse others of arguing against the standing of religion here because they're atheists IRL but all out admit you argue for the standing of religion here because you're religious IRL. That's kinda a double standard, you know.

And no, IRL, religion has been a pox.
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Okay so I'll answer this as best as can (on a cruise ship at the moment, internet is shit) but let me break it down for you.

Me and religion have a complicated relationship, I'm Protestant, but life has given me too much shit for me to utterly believe that God is kind. So take your judgemental 'I am, atheist and you're obviously not so you're a hypocrite and dumb!' attitude and try to relise your own hypocrisy. That 'Pox' only really became bad when it started to repress that which went against it, like you are doing, if atheism was a religion then your disdain for anything against your beliefs shows how primitive and hypocritical you actually are, I know an atheist or two and I thank God they don't have the intolerant, archaic, double standard attitude you display here.

Finally I'd just like to say how telling it is you didn't actually counter any of my points, going and instead directly inferring my whole post was wrong because of the implications of religious belief. Trying to hide the fact that my valid points have not been countered by yourself due to your lack of ability to do so.

I'm using logic and common sense in my arguments. You're allowing your blatant dislike of anything religious to cloud your logic and sense. Maybe a christian stung you as a child or something....
 
DakkaMania said:
Then I recommend you swallow the bitter pill and go for the HK annexation. Either by Bribe/Threat or diplomacy if a miracle happens. They and the Trelli* are the only territories of geostrategic importance to the Kingdom. Afterward, conquest isn't desirable at all as we got defensible borders, open trade access to the Mediterranian and no asshole constantly trying to shank us in the side when shit catches fire.

I'd have preferred diplomancing the HK much earlier, but now it's just unfeasible. And to be fair, the HK never sent any envoys either. This isn't 100% our fault. They could have tried talking to us about their worries and we could have negotiated something. Instead we get the current mess.

*The Trelli we can actually buy out. If we build the Gulvalley canal, we can cut them out of the trade between us and the Khemetri, after which they will probably suffer a collapse spiral from losing pretty much every Dominance they piggy bagged off. After that, we only need to start slurping, send trade missions and salt gifts. No war necessary. Although in their case, I won't be sad if we instead kill the slave traders.
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Integrate the HK - ideally peaceably but if necessarily through force.
Build the canal to weaken the Trell.
Integrate the Trell through trade.
Consolidate and fortify internally.

Still leaves the lowland border open to the TH and SF but as long as we manage and support the Txolla appropriately it will be fine.
Still leaves the northern border open to the nomads, but as long as we establish another March near the bay that the WW reached and do whatever diplomacy is necessary with the nomads it will be fine.

Basically my goals, too.

FortTell said:
Hovewer, our civ is not at the level where we are starved of skilled workers that need much education to perform their jobs adequately.
Public education in itself will be wasted if its results are seldom used by most of the people who receive it.
I feel it is a matter for a later day, when you would NEED to be educated to get a sizable portion of jobs.
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Literacy enables the faster spread of techniques and thus better economic production - see Japan. A decent knowledge of natural science allows for the faster development of better techniques and thus better economic production.

Ignoring that, why would public education exist solely for the sake of developing a pool of skilled workers? A liberal education's goal is the betterment of society.
 
FortTell said:
Hovewer, our civ is not at the level where we are starved of skilled workers that need much education to perform their jobs adequately.
Public education in itself will be wasted if its results are seldom used by most of the people who receive it.
I feel it is a matter for a later day, when you would NEED to be educated to get a sizable portion of jobs.
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Modern education was AFAIK developed because industrialization required literacy and numeracy from it's workers, if only so they could read instructions.

It's also why our education somewhat resembles an assembly line.

But at the Ymaryns current level, education isn't that needed. So if we want to get public education, create a demand for it. More libraries, more artisans, more everything that needs education.

Exhaust the hereditary families ability to provide educated personnel and you get mass education soon after.
 
Academia Nut said:
Civilization Stats

General
Diplomacy 7 [+5]
Economy 18 [-3+14]
-Sustainable Forests 13/16
-Econ Expansion 11 [+3-14]
Martial 14 {20}
Wealth 18 [+7-3]

Cultural
Culture 18 [+1]
Mysticism 18 (+1) [+2]
Tech 15
Prestige 68

Stability
Stability 2 (hopeful)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Religious Authority 4
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Academia Nut said:
In Service to Order (PiA Linked)
Order and stability are paramount, and any king who cannot maintain that needs to be replaced in short order.
Pros: First stability hit a turn is negated
Cons: At negative stability, lose 1 Legitimacy a phase
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Academia Nut said:
Nemesis Fashion: PiA linked abilities can only be drawn from a nemesis that the People have a problem with and intend to destroy
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Academia Nut said:
Gain New CB - Intervention
As King of the Hill, every turn after the first that you have an Intervention CB lose 1 Prestige for not using it
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Academia Nut said:
Parsing it a bit, Hertythyn asked, "Officially declare that we're not going to take a swing at the Highlanders, tell the Thunder Horse we're tired of their shit and we're going to separate them and the Harmurri - even though the Harmurri started the current fight - and bring forth some combination of the Dragon Banner, Yenyna, and Yenyna's son to the fighting in the east?"
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fuck

[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)
[X] No (???)
Can't decide rn, will edit later.
 
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McLuvin said:
So take your judgemental 'I am, atheist and you're obviously not so you're a hypocrite and dumb!' attitude and try to relise your own hypocrisy. That 'Pox' only really became bad when it started to repress that which went against it, like you are doing,
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No, you are hypocritical because you do the same thing you're condemning others for: Letting your RL views on religion influence your stance of religion here. You all out admitted that the opposition to religion only vexes you because you are religious. And good grief, arguing against something is not "repressing" it! What?

I'm using logic and common sense in my arguments.
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Your post was one long litany of pathos, not "logic". That is why I ignored it. It was an outpouring of rhetorical pathos that assumes religion makes for moral actions. Which is, well, wrong. In this game, religion has served its purpose for our civilization, and I have never denied that. But I do take your issue with your claim that ultimately only religion can keep people in line.
 
[X] No (???)

Fuck the Highlanders, fuck them with a rusty dull spoon. We beat the shit out of them or else.
 
[x] No (???)

This is why predictive astrology is rubbish. It gets everyone in a tizzy over absolutely nothing. This absolute nonsense would see us enter a useless war where we gain nothing, ruin Yenyna's retirement and give up our CB against an actual threat we can eliminate.

Fuck you for giving us this useless bullshit Khemetri. We save untold numbers of you and you give us superstitious detrimental bullshit.
 
[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)

Yay, friendship with the Highland dudes.

Still, having to rip Yenyna out of her peaceful live is cruel, but at least the Horses are far enough away that our greed wont tempt us into conquering territory we cant hold before we properly integrate our divergent subordinates.
 
Susano said:
Well, IMO, we should never let it come to negative stability anyway, so this is alright by me.
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This has tremendous synergy with PiA, let alone our capacity to kick actions. It's absolutely amazing if we can use it right.

[x] No (???)

This is probably a bad idea, but foreign interventionism being favored over actual political concerns close to home is a horrible precedent.
 
[X] No (???)

We need to make sure that this doesn't become a trend. Odds are that the dice will fuck us anyway.

But if we attack, the HK will assault us from behind. And I fully expect nomads to take a swing as well.
 
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