- Location
- Central Europe
? Its +5 (Baby Boom) - 2 (True Cities) = +3 Econ per turn or - 3 Econ Expansion.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Yeah they aren't weak and they do have some advantages, however they will probably have to roll over and take it in the end because they run and thrive off of profit first and foremost. They don't produce anything other than slaves and rely on trade for everything they have, being the middleman is profitable until you piss off one of the two people you need to be a middleman. And that's the choice we are leaving them with. Fight us over a perfectly legal Trade Post, that will be protected by a Mercenary Company capable of soloing entire kingdoms, or roll over and take it.
Once we have that Trade Post up we control almost all their capabilities to produce Bronze, so they are left with a choice, pick a fight with us and lose their ability to function properly as a society within a few generations, or roll over and take it and survive just with us keeping them on a leash.
You make it sound like they can fight back, they can yes, but not fast enough to save themselves from collapse. It's a lose lose situation we are forcing them into here, imagine the U.S parking a military base on top of Saudi Arabia's oil fields, the Saudi's can fight to take it back and destroy their economy faster as they break themselves against the might of the U.S, or they can sit there and take it, surviving at the leisure of the U.S.
The Trelli might fight back, and it might be hard for us to destroy them conventionally but we don't have to. All we need to do is hold the Trading Post with the Red Banner long enough for their Trade networks and Bronze reserves to fall, and for their society to collapse, and we get a boost to defensive wars and a boost for winning said wars.
Offensive wars would work like you said yes, but defensive wars will only lead to our victory for far less investment than you claim as we watch the Trelli kill themselves. We would essentially be sieging an entire civilisation
AN said we would have a hard time winning a war defensively, but that's maybe before we build more boats and dockyards.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
5 + GA = 1 econ expansion action = 7, as he said.
- 2 from TC = 5 econ generated, 5 slots consumed per turn.
@Kiba We should probably develop them anyways. Faster boats would help with connectivity to the WW and GS. And, if shallow, probably w/ the lowlands, once we finish the Cataract Dam and the follow-up canal megaproject.
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- Location
- Austria
"When it will be an issue" is going to be too late because, well, steppes. Like, look up how steppe nomads fucked every of their neighbours, no matter how strong, one time or another. And how, like, a lot of people who later settled down were nomads before.
Nomadic tribes are terrifying and I am not sure how the everloving fuck did we survive bordering them so long. But with them having horse riding it may soon change if we are not paranoid enough, because, well, nomads. They defeated Russ kingdoms, China(!), Persia...everyone, at some point.
Not!Anatolia is Hathatyn lands and expansion from there into hills rich with ore. Which is, you know, where we excel.
And how come new trade post is not politically troublesome?
Care to elaborate?Well...they do not have to attack as much as blockage from the sea, lay siege and starve everyone to death.
And get iron from the deal.
Heh. Come to think of it...
If I were Trelli, I would really want that Trade Post for all the exotic Ymaryn slaves and all their trade secrets. Of course, I would not expect Ymaryn to be so silly as to challenge me on the sea on the very edge of their logitistical trail, but hey, if they are offering so much loot and torture-able dudes with a lot of free knowledge (especially if they have even a hint of rumours of our iron), who I am to refuse?
Logistics > Fighting Gud. They, with their Rule The Waves shit, can just starve out our new trade post without any real risk unless we somehow magic up marine victory against them. Which is about as probable as nomads defeating us in our hills.
Yeah, that's only Baby Boom. Now add +Econ Expansion from Golden Age to get -7 -> -5 Econ slots.
We do not have ways to give us so many slots - 5 slots per turn is basically requiring to rapid-fire settle the fertile parts of Lowlands to keep up. -3 is more feasible without commiting to reckless expansion we will be hard-pressed to defend.
- Location
- Huezil
That's why i want the East-TP, it's next to Hatvalley and is more defensable and within our land infrasctructure, so we could reinforce it by land. the West-TP would only be reinforced by sea... and well, i don't want to be France with a Continental Blockade done by England.
Econ overflow returns slots.
@Academia Nut
How has the switch back to normal weather affected the provinces bordering the steppes? Is it getting too dry again or can they maintain the forests they planted?
How do the steppes look? Is there enough food for the nomads or is the grass turning brown again?
How has the switch back to normal weather affected the provinces bordering the steppes? Is it getting too dry again or can they maintain the forests they planted?
How do the steppes look? Is there enough food for the nomads or is the grass turning brown again?
- Location
- Canada
I'm down
- Location
- Mists of Albion
If they try to land they get Wrecked by the Red Banner, they don't have the right ships for Viking Raids and we excel at Agricultural practices, they can block off our sea trade but we are at the mouth of a river, which has notably good soil and from what we've seen of Greenmouth we very quickly set up farms to support the Trade Post, it wouldn't be that hard to set up farms, which makes the risk of being 'starved out' far less, also the local tribes likely aren't happy with the Trelli (y'know, being victims of their slave raids) and would likely be willing to trade in exchange for giving us food, thus they cannot do this method of attack. It doesn't matter if they rule the waves if they can't take the one area which stops them getting their Tin, something they need like Saudi Arabia needs oil, the Bronze Age Collapse occurred (partly) because of a lack of Tin!!! They'd be screwed more than us in the long run as long as we hold that Trading Post, which we could because Red Banner are OP, please don't Nerf and they can't starve us out.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
So what should we do? Oh, wait, you don't know. Because you don't know when they'll come or what they'll have. Thus, the only thing we can do is make sure we have 2 marches. I.e., they're not an issue until they come, which is when it will be an issue.
NTP = North Trade Post = There are no politics up there because they're all widely dispersed hunter-gatherers. Maybe there would be political danger if they are widely dispersed tribes who are like "we don't trust these foreigners so we'll just attack them." However, a) this danger will disappear once we've developed strong enough diplo ties, b) they won't be able to attack us at home and we can possibly just recall the settlement, idk. @Academia Nut Can we undo Trade Posts?Not!Anatolia is Hathatyn lands and expansion from there into hills rich with ore. Which is, you know, where we excel.
And how come new trade post is not politically troublesome?
Right, blockage from sea of the TP set up on a river in a climate which we know how to farm... 100% will end in famine, especially since this blockade will occur immediately w/ all of the mercenaries that are going to be rented out to the Saffron Isles rather than at home where they can be immediately reallocated. Oh, what's that? There's also land that connects to our well-established Trade Post to the north? Huh.
@Academia Nut Btw what does the Do Nothing Here action result in? A simple lack of expenditure?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Word of AN regarding the difficulty of fighting the Trelli:
This occur over vast amount of time. Some kingdoms are bound to get conquered sooner or later.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Not saying it would be easy, just that it's difficulty wouldn't be as bad as certain people are suggesting and the war wouldn't occur in the way people are suggesting
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
In my opinion, his reply lacks sufficient info to be a counter to detailed plans. If you'd like, you could always speculate as to why w/ the Trell would be screwed offensively but doable defensively. P sure McLuvin's is already a good analysis of how defensive would work.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
@Academia Nut
Does culture shift occurs to Tradepost like March and Colony?
The reason i ask is that trade post gives impression that population growth from immigrants would be less as the focus is on trade, which leans toward people with some math and read & write.
I know that supporting muscles are still needes for feeding the merchants and moving the goods, but rate of shift might be lower?
Does culture shift occurs to Tradepost like March and Colony?
The reason i ask is that trade post gives impression that population growth from immigrants would be less as the focus is on trade, which leans toward people with some math and read & write.
I know that supporting muscles are still needes for feeding the merchants and moving the goods, but rate of shift might be lower?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Well, the sole danger of the taiga is the climate, which would be manageable after a few turns. Horse nomads don't exist in taiga, and the locals are primitive enough that they are not even a nuisance. Furthermore trade posts manage themselves.
What am getting at is that the far north post would be beneficial if we decide to focus inwards.
And @veekie regarding the tied up actions and costs. A war would have similar results if it breaks. True it depends on the dice, but so does the Northern weather.
What am getting at is that the far north post would be beneficial if we decide to focus inwards.
And @veekie regarding the tied up actions and costs. A war would have similar results if it breaks. True it depends on the dice, but so does the Northern weather.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
Stahp you're making me blush!!!
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Ok, will look at it this way. Every turn we have had at least one province (not periphery state) do a main expand econ. That's a one slot difference to what is happening now. We have managed that just fine. Why are you so worried about us not being able to manage it now?
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I think AN's reply is from our court's point of view for our hypothetical war with Treill? So screwed in offensive war is The People can't win in offensive war, but can likely manage in a defensive war.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Offensively would require getting the forces needed to beat them to were they live aka naval power, defensively we need to simply make a war unprofitable for them, which is not done by giving them an easy to beat up target like a trade post that we cant easily reinforce.