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Paths of Civilization

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ThrawnCA said:
So...what's the big advantage of the triple megaproject action?

Sure, it's cool, but...more trails! Trails make everything better! You name an aspect of our civilization, and I'll tell you how it's Greek trails make it better.
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Trails are great, they bring problems to the King. Problem: we can't actually efficiently solve those issues until the Palace is complete.

Like, trails are super important, but there's a reason we're trying to get the Palace done ASAP. Trails are making our problems worse (by making the problems more obvious and thus solvable)
 
redzonejoe said:
Inb4 sapphire used for competing palace wonder, they finish theirs first thanks to our mine and our palace is seen as an imitation.
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They'd do it, too. I'm really hoping that that doesn't apply because a) the Palace is for practical reasons, not bragging rights, so a Wonder wouldn't make it irrelevant; and b) we've already started it.
 
Citino said:
I think this is a vote everyone is happy with. Roads are loved by everyone, we have juuust enough resources to make both the south and north happy, not to mention we would hopefully get mortar out of the alchemy action, and the gems both lower centralization and get us more wealth, along with hopefully letting us dominate another trade good.

The only downside is that it will cost a fair amount of resources, including a bunch of art, but we can survive that.
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OTOH, it gives us more Wealth and Diplomacy, which overflow Wealth -> Diplomacy -> Art, so it all kind of pays for itself.
 
either AN/the dice have thrown us a bone, or its a trap. either way, im glad
 
notgreat said:
Trails are great, they bring problems to the King ... (by making the problems more obvious and thus solvable)
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Ah, you answered it yourself :)

Seriously, the Palace will help solve problems at larger scales, but it will be the same people doing the solving. We can certainly solve problems now.
 
DocMatoi said:
sure. One of the big parts of roman style roads was a built in gutter on either side so puddles didnt form
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"These major roads were often stone-paved and metaled, cambered for drainage, and were flanked by footpaths, bridleways and drainage ditches"


The general appearance of such a metalled road and footway is shown in an existing street of Pompeii.
(A). Native earth, leveled and, if necessary, rammed tight.
(B). Statumen: stones of a size to fill the hand.
(C). Audits: rubble or concrete of broken stones and lime.
(D). Nucleus: kernel or bedding of fine cement made of pounded potshards and lime.
(E). Dorsum or agger viae: the elliptical surface or crown of the road (media stratae eminentia) made of polygonal blocks of silex (basaltic lava) or rectangular blocks of saxum qitadratum (travertine, peperino, or other stone of the country). The upper surface was designed to cast off rain or water like the shell of a tortoise. The lower surfaces of the separate stones, here shown as flat, were sometimes cut to a point or edge in order to grasp the nucleus, or next layer, more firmly.
(F). Crepido, margo or semita: raised footway, or sidewalk, on each side of the via.
(G). Umbones or edge-stones.

Where is the "gutter" made out of concrete?

Maybe "gutters" would be used in the cities but otherwise "drainage ditches" (which typically have puddles in them) would be used. Gutters require careful grading so that water doesn't stay in them and stick around for even longer than it would in a dirt/gravel-bottomed ditch.

It is true, however, that concrete was apparently used in the bedding and base beneath the flagstones. It isn't really necessary, however.

Note, too, that this was a road in Pompeii, i.e. a city, rather than the country roads I was discussing. I had provided leniency in regards to this, saying that drainage ditches would be useful here and thus provide an opportunity for concrete drainage paths, but apparently even the concrete-using romans felt it would be better to use natural stone.
 
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pbluekan said:
Plant a tree every day you're on the trail.
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Huh.
Dunno about foreigners, but this is probably something we do on piligrimages.
Like....this is so Ymaryn: traveling along the roads and seeing all the trees planted by others who walked it over centuries, one tree at a time, and doing your part. Just imagine the feeling of community and continuity.
 
notgreat said:
Trails are great, they bring problems to the King. Problem: we can't actually efficiently solve those issues until the Palace is complete.

Like, trails are super important, but there's a reason we're trying to get the Palace done ASAP. Trails are making our problems worse (by making the problems more obvious and thus solvable)
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Trails reduce travel times, which smooths out a lot of the logistic issues as well. If I have to plan for a 1 week trip between Valleyhome and Redshore, that means I have to prepare 1 week worth of supplies to that party. Cut that down to a 5 day journey, and you just reduced the logistical strain by 4 days worth of supply for a round trip. Which means less food is wasted, less wheels are needed for your carts, less horses have to be prepped for your messengers, and so forth.

Your average clerk will cheerfully elect any king who runs on the platform of 'I'll build more roads'.
 
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Abby Normal said:
I'm a little surprised they haven't plopped down a trading post for us near hatvalley or anything, actually...
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Reminder that everyone else on the sea is dealing with rough weather and finding it a little difficult to transport lots of dudes.

(Meanwhile longships are giving zero shits about weather, and neither are our outriggers)
Candesce said:
We've a cent point to Enforce Justice (secondary).
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I'd personally spend that on even more Main Trails.
They're one of the deepest root causes of the problem

We're going to hit mass Art generation in about 2 turns from tristat overflow(Mysticism/Wealth/Diplomacy all goes into Art), so if we can hold out until then the Restore Order + Proclaim Glory combo is back to life
Citino said:
Well, if veekie is right about mortar, I wonder what will happen if we build the roads at the same time as discovering it...
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Main improvement there is mortared constructions allow for larger masonry bridges rather than the current more limited versions. More important than it sounds.
Citino said:
Should be noted that one interlude thus shows how much wealth we are getting from our trade dominance. We literally can't find enough stuff to buy due to how much stuff we offload on the Trelli, to the point where we were literally buying all the tin not because we particularly wanted it, but because others were willing to trade GLORIOUS SILVER for the stuff.
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That's the power of multiple dominances.
BungieONI said:
And this situation has now become even more ridiculous since we have gained wine dominance and gem significance since then if I remember correctly.

They must be really hard up on stuff after we pass through.
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Not really.
Think of it this way:
-Trelli
--Buy Tin from ???
--Buy Saffron from Saffron Isles
--Buy Spices from Saffron Isles
--Buy Spices from Khemtri
--Buy Textiles from ???
--Buy Copper from ???
--Buy Silver from ???
--Buy Gold from Khemtri
--Buy Incense from Khemtri
--Buy Slaves from everywhere but Ymaryn
--Buy Tyrian Purple from Ymaryn
--Buy Mercury from Ymaryn
--Buy Copper from Ymaryn
--Buy Glass from Ymaryn
--Buy Salt from Ymaryn
--Buy Wine from Ymaryn

--Make Salt
--Make Wine
--Make Bronze

--Sell Tin to Khemtri
--Sell Tin to Ymaryn
--Sell Saffron to everywhere
--Sell Spices to Ymaryn and ???
--Sell Textiles to everywhere
--Sell Copper to everywhere but Ymaryn
--Sell Gold to Ymaryn
--Sell Silver to Ymaryn
--Sell Incense to everywhere but Khemtri
--Sell Slaves to everywhere but Ymaryn
--Sell Tyrian Purple to everywhere but Ymaryn
--Sell Mercury to everywhere but Ymaryn
--Sell Glass to everywhere but Ymaryn
--Sell Salt to everywhere but Ymaryn
--Sell Wine to everywhere but Ymaryn

So the overall flow is:
-Khemtri
--In: Gems, Mercury, Tin, Saffron, Tyrian Purple, Glass
--Out: Gold, Incense, Spices

-Ymaryn
--In: Gold, Silver, Spices, Incense, Saffron, Textiles
--Out: Wine, Salt, Glass, Mercury, Tyrian Purple, Gems

So overall the Trelli are making mad bank as middlemen, but with the number of dominances, we're actually supplying as much as we take out, but what we supply are mainly luxury products(which means only the Saffron Isles and the Khemtri are buying much I think?).

Look at our consumptions:
-Gold - Coinage
-Silver - Coinage
-Spices - Quality of life
-Incense - Religion
-Saffron - Quality of life, religion
-Textiles - Quality of life

If we want to shock the market again, go for the Opium. That'd probably be a doozy.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Ah, you answered it yourself :)

Seriously, the Palace will help solve problems at larger scales, but it will be the same people doing the solving. We can certainly solve problems now.
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Yes. But we can't efficiently solve them. It's not a "We must do this or we die!!!!111@!#!" thing, it's a "We could probably get an extra 5% efficiency by doing it this way" sort of thing.

As long as we all agree to [Secondary] Enforce Justice next turn, I'm fine with this. Stability 0 is not dangerously low, but it's definitely risky. I think that's a much bigger deal than this turn's actions.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Huh.
Dunno about foreigners, but this is probably something we do on piligrimages.
Like....this is so Ymaryn: traveling along the roads and seeing all the trees planted by others who walked it over centuries, one tree at a time, and doing your part. Just imagine the feeling of community and continuity.
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And bandits, trees close to roads breeds bandits...
 
Therealtahu said:
It sounds like 0-1-2-3-4-5 in the best case. It's a fun time for everyone.
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That actually sounds like worst case. Best case would be 0-1-2-3-4-5-6
pblur said:
Personally, I put long odds against megaproject policy next turn. I think we need one more turn of offense to pacify the lowlands.
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Depending on what happens next turn, I'd put it down as

[Main] The Palace
[Main] The Palace x2
[Secondary] Policy Change - Balance
[Secondary] Expand Econ

With the secondaries switching depending on whether we are still at war or not.
 
Umi-san said:
"These major roads were often stone-paved and metaled, cambered for drainage, and were flanked by footpaths, bridleways and drainage ditches"


The general appearance of such a metalled road and footway is shown in an existing street of Pompeii.
(A). Native earth, leveled and, if necessary, rammed tight.
(B). Statumen: stones of a size to fill the hand.
(C). Audits: rubble or concrete of broken stones and lime.
(D). Nucleus: kernel or bedding of fine cement made of pounded potshards and lime.
(E). Dorsum or agger viae: the elliptical surface or crown of the road (media stratae eminentia) made of polygonal blocks of silex (basaltic lava) or rectangular blocks of saxum qitadratum (travertine, peperino, or other stone of the country). The upper surface was designed to cast off rain or water like the shell of a tortoise. The lower surfaces of the separate stones, here shown as flat, were sometimes cut to a point or edge in order to grasp the nucleus, or next layer, more firmly.
(F). Crepido, margo or semita: raised footway, or sidewalk, on each side of the via.
(G). Umbones or edge-stones.

Where is the "gutter" made out of concrete?

Maybe "gutters" would be used in the cities but otherwise "drainage ditches" (which typically have puddles in them) would be used. Gutters require careful grading so that water doesn't stay in them and stick around for even longer than it would in a dirt/gravel-bottomed ditch.

It is true, however, that concrete was apparently used in the bedding and base beneath the flagstones. It isn't really necessary, however.

Note, too, that this was a road in Pompeii, i.e. a city, rather than the country roads I was discussing. I had provided leniency in regards to this, by saying that drainage ditches would be useful here, but apparently even the concrete-using romans felt it would be better to use natural stone.
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i appear to have misremembered. whoops.
 
Citino said:
Trails reduce travel times, which smooths out a lot of the logistic issues as well. If I have to plan for a 1 week trip between Valleyhome and Redshore, that means I have to prepare 1 week worth of supplies to that party. Cut that down to a 5 day journey, and you just reduced the logistical strain by 4 days worth of supply for a round trip. Which means less food is wasted, less wheels are needed for your carts, less horses have to be prepped for your messengers, and so forth.

You average clerk will cheerfully elect any king who runs on the platform of 'I'll build more roads'.
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All for want of a nail...
 
Umi-san said:
It is true, however, that concrete was apparently used in the bedding and base beneath the flagstones. It isn't really necessary, however
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It isn't for construction and use, but the concrete is necessary for long term quality of the road. The layers of concrete prevent plant growth between the stones and also prevents water from undermining the road through erosion.

Roman roads wouldn't still be around to this day without those cemented layers.
 
[X] [Alchemy] Full support (Main Study Alchemy, Stallions very pleased)
[X] [WC] Send many experts to work at the problem (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, +2 Wealth, +2 Wealth next turn)
[X] [React] Main New Trails
 
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