Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
It might be. The scene's kind of ambiguous.
- Location
- Somewhere
specifically:
Just... she already has a set personality, a kind of Quality to her so to speak and I do not think that he would write her similar to Firn (no idea whether he or she (or spider if that joke from eternally back still applies))
So... Who is he talking about?
fake edit: false alarm:
not a first, but kinda important
This reads important enough to maybe be under useful information, may be wrong, maybe I see more than there is here, but I remember that not everyone here knows all those little tidbits.
(Like, for another, the feathers "Who is dreaming?" broken link)
fake edit: does that ^ mean costume changes with relevant power-ups are a thing?
another thought:
Could anyone tell me what that may mean for PMAS, specifically; for Meta influence upon the world of PMMM, other than sabrina?
*looks up*... looks a little big... may try to look for more later, do not want to annoy or drown my own observations.
May be a few, well few, but rather post before it gets somehow eaten.
Will stop the moment it annoys (the mass, not the theorizing, is almost the only thing I can contribute, and I want to contribute helpfully)
/think it is an) important edit:
Guys...
Residue processing 23.1
Would it not be quite important to tell Homura about this???
Trust, Communication and all that.
Would that not be kinda important?
Guys?
It is just... when will we have another opportunity for this if not in the frame of this conversation.
Like, maybe next vote if it does not fit currently, but that sounds
(Sorry, had that new post already ready, but I just could not wait any longer and risk forgetting/ losing the post and doublepost is a no-no)
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Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
Power rankings for things that would absolutely fuck up the world:
>Dedolere (no universal reset)
>The Witch of Despair (universal reset)
>Kriemhild Gretchen
>Madoka's death/contracting (timeline reset)
>Yandere Sabrina
>Walpurgisnacht and Dawn of Hyades blanda up
>Dedolere (no universal reset)
>The Witch of Despair (universal reset)
>Kriemhild Gretchen
>Madoka's death/contracting (timeline reset)
>Yandere Sabrina
>Walpurgisnacht and Dawn of Hyades blanda up
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
From a meta perspective, the players/audience would assume that this dream is some kind of clue, possibly even prophetic. But in-character, it's just a bad dream we had about a thing that we've been dreading. Homura would have no reason to think that there's anything in it that needs to be discussed. Doubtless she's had thousands of such nightmares.
Also, honestly, there's not really any new information in it. It's just a dream of fighting Walpurgisnacht, and there's nothing in it that Homura hasn't already seen a hundred times. We already knew that Walpy can throw buildings and breathe magical fire.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And therefore from Sabrina's.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The point is our concerns make no sense from Homura's perspective, unless you want to drop the "you're a fictional character" tidbit, which, tbh, I'm not sure Sabrina even knows.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Different level of meta. Sabrina has metaknowledge about PMMM, not about PMAS. She's not aware of her own status as a fictional character.
Let it be noted that Kiritsugu mostly failed in that desire.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
Yeah, no need to be indecisive about it! lets make sure to tell her that we are definitely Walpurgisnacht!Let's not tell Homu we might we Walpy.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just like Homura.
- Location
- Somewhere
Is there not a certain lack of Mami and assorted other people there for it to be merely a bad dream showing what one dreads?
We know it is no scene she should know as such, as it is not from the series, and Sabrina, as quoted
it could show more of that theorized past before the alley.
...Kinda lost my train of thought there
fake edit: found it again! It is less about what WPN can or can not do and more about it being simply strange and impossible, as it can only be Sabrinas knowledge and it would be important to note that that has interesting implications what with her being a former tabula rasa.
Let's not tell Homu we might we Walpy.
For me that dream reads more as it being from Homuras perspective, as her hands are seen, the knees are more heard than anything, but not her face.
And as the gouts are still across the sky, where Sabrina actually WPN, would it not be from a position where that POV is literally not possible?
And has anyone any idea, why the hands scrabble first, and only then the knees crack on concrete, how would that work?
And lastly, why does the rain suddenly get eaten up by silence, would it signify the world being eaten by something.
It is not homura getting absorbed by Walpurgis (it was never said to not have happened) as her gem was still an amethyst and not Despair Black.
Edit: If Sabrina was somehow in the old timeline to perceive that, then she must have somehow gotten to the new one with homura, which should not be possible without her knowledge, so our IC concernn should be whether she knows more about this or not.
and it could be in her interests by it being an unknown and that should be rectified if we are to keep steering this ship in a storm at the end of the world.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
This makes me ask two questions:
1: Does that make Shirou Madoka and Homura's grandson/Sabrina's nephew?
2: Who's kid is Kotomine?
(Going by the thread jokes, Gilgamesh, of course, could only ever be us.)
This isn't something I think would be super huge or fast.
It took ten years and around a hundred loops for Madoka to gain the amount of potential she did, and she was the direct focus of Homura's wish. Even with the power of a god behind a similar wish, what we'd be seeing in the way of karma incrementing here would be less direct recoil from the wish and far closer to cosmic sideblast. (Which could potentially be quite strong for those close to the epicenter, but they're not the focus)
What will almost certainly be showing up are errant memories. My basis in looking for that is not only what we see of Madoka's past-life memories in PMMM, but also this little bit of invisitext in Unforseen Consequences 12:
Oddly, were it not for that invisitext I'd say the situation itself is innocuous enough to gloss over: In the scenario there it's easy to say she's turning to us because her friends are decided on whether we stay with Homura or Mami but the author specifically inserting that question makes it strange, and afterwards Madoka frequently turns to us in that manner when Homura verbally feuding with her friends. With the invisitext however, combined with later info on Madoka's wish to fix everything and it's possible role in our appearance, it reads like we're being asked to consider the role past life memories play in people's decision making.
[Also, a fun fact gleaned during reading Chapter 1-11 for info on context: Sayaka doesn't directly call Homura a vampire the first time. She says that Homura probably "lives in a crypt, like some kind of vampire."]
Regardless, if Homura is filled in on the potentialbomb, checking won't be that hard. It just requires moments that appear in anomalous timelines but not the loops, Rebellion being first and foremost of those.
For instance, it might be worth checking up on whether Mami ever showed off a chibi-Mami in past timelines. After all, she said she got it from an idea she had for a combat backup body and that's something that doesn't appear in canon, but does show up in Rebellion.
Other things I'm looking for include comparisons between Oriko's powers as of her canonical manga and PMAS. Extra Story is probably an anomalous timeline but Oriko does show a fair degree of power problems there.
And as long as I'm in full theory mode [customer's warning, full theory mode may take 1-5 business days], at this point I should probably assemble my notes and thoughts so far from my third read-through, as pertains to Homura, the potentialbomb, and Rebellion.
The first and most relevant to now is an odd little look at the moment we learned that Homura didn't know the potentialbomb itself:
This entire setup is massively ambiguous. Note that Oriko never actually says anything about the potentialbomb. All the allusion to it comes from Sabrina and Firn. Our only link is that Kyubey knows what's up already and that if he tells Homura she'll break. I'll be getting to that moment later.
And this is the start of the very next post: It's interesting because it reads as though Oriko realized we didn't catch her meaning last time ("A faint crease appears on Oriko's forehead, and then her eyes widen slightly.") and then tried that non-sequitur to see what we knew.
Because, frankly, if Homura knew she became a devil, and knew what she'd done to Madoka, I think there's a chance that would drive her to despair just as much as the potentialbomb. If not more.
Which brings me too... Surface Tension 13-16, 25, 29, and 30. I'll be looking at these through the lens that Homura just remembered she was Homucifer, after hiding the fact from herself with memory manipulation, for reasons that should become clear as I pick them apart.
Homura suddenly leaves and her excuse is that she remembers something. It's far from conclusive but I get the feeling that she'd use something mostly truthful as an excuse, rather than a lie cut from whole cloth.
It's the emotions on her face that are the notable thing here. Longing stands out, and it's deliberately written to stand out. And if you've read Wraith Arc, it also stands out as the source of her second wish: Her longing to see Madoka again as they were together in timeless space created her wish, and was the source of the Clara doll Ai, who, depending on the materials you read and what you imply into them, is responsible for Homura becoming the devil. (specifically looking at translations on the Clara Dolls from the artbook.)
"She's making things worse, and if she learns, she will despair."
All of Surface tension 16 is worth going over but this in particular is a really interesting exchange.
Because the first quote is from Madoka in episode 12, and the second alludes to Rebellion, and Homura shudders at both of them.
Let's skip ahead a moment, to 25, 29 and 30
Between all of these we have the impression that Homura used some extra power for something and it wasn't just hunting a witch. Which means that memory manipulation is on the table as something she did there.
Which brings us back to 16:
Even accepting the theory, It's iffy, but Homura taking some of her own memories to get that sudden burst of confidence in section 1 might explain her shock in section 2 ... of course, that kind of clashes with section three. (maybe she only took just enough to get by?) Regardless, any memory erasure could easily have happened later. Still, it's worth pondering so I brought it up.
(Incidentally, I've never gotten why we think Sabrina is bad at Social. I mean, if this interpretation is correct we did talk down Akuma!Homura without even realizing it.)
Well, regardless, the elephant in the room for any Homucifer theory is the Barrier Incident.
...And as it so happens, I think I have an explanation.
I've mentioned that Homura has memory manipulation, and we see in Wraith arc that Homura can and will mess with her own memory, including her ability to use her powers. So let's further make another assumption: Homura didn't get rid of her memory permanently, but rather she left herself some trigger to remember.
I'd guess that an emotion of love, loss, and longing might fit the bill, since it's what her second wish was born from in the first place, but it's not really necessary.
Regardless, on the day of the barrier incident she's planning to call us and talk about the Yakuza visit that day. And we're in the barrier, in that trance, for a while. More than that, as we leave off, just before conducting the experiment, we specifically tell her to call us when she was ready.
So let's imagine Homura calls us, saying she's ready. Only... we never respond. Well we were with Mami right? Perhaps she calls Mami and Mami is scared to death. Perhaps she simply goes in on her own. Either way there's no time, so she makes it, she finds us... and instead of us she finds a barrier.
The conclusion is obvious: We witched. But maybe there's something Homura can do. She knows it, and she reaches, and she remembers.
And power in hand she goes to save us and... we're fine. Completely okay and unharmed. Just, sitting in a barrier of our own making, apparently completely unresponsive, with Mami panic stricken by our side.
But she remembers what's been going on, and while we're fine, things are off. So... she makes some corrections. But not before she sheds a feather, and when the barrier collapses, the feather is pushed out.
It's an old theory, and one I've long had a problem with: We don't see evidence of any extra power use. But then, if she remembers the events of last Thursday (Surface Tension) and what happened after last time she appeared, she knows that we have confronted her about her soul gem after the previous memory manipulation. As a result, she might well have hidden that power use by using one of her grief seeds.
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Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
Madoka is also similar to Irisviel, in that a world destroying threat is formed when her gem is filled.
On a seperate note, I discovered the 'Poor Little Match Girl' is often played by a Kyou in anime and/or given the name 'Sakura', which I can only guess because it's similar in sound to Danish for matchstick girl.
So could Kyouko Sakura be the 'Poor Little Match Girl'? And her pairing with Sayaka be pairing off characters based on Hans Christian Anderson?
On a seperate note, I discovered the 'Poor Little Match Girl' is often played by a Kyou in anime and/or given the name 'Sakura', which I can only guess because it's similar in sound to Danish for matchstick girl.
So could Kyouko Sakura be the 'Poor Little Match Girl'? And her pairing with Sayaka be pairing off characters based on Hans Christian Anderson?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Just because a thing that we dread is in a dream doesn't mean that every thing that we dread is.
It seems likely, out-of-character, that this is some memory of one of Homura's previous battles. It wouldn't be the first time that someone in PMMM dreamed about something from a previous time loop. If so, then it's nothing that Homura doesn't already know.
Pretty easily, honestly. If she was trying to climb or crawl up and incline and slipped, her hands would scrabble for purchase as she slid down, then her knees would hit the ground when she got to the bottom. Or if she fell forward and tried to catch herself with her hands, failed, and then landed on her knees. Or she was hurled through the air, clawed at the ground as she flew past trying to stop herself, before landing on her knees. The text is vague about what direction she's moving as she scrabbles, so it's hard to tell.And has anyone any idea, why the hands scrabble first, and only then the knees crack on concrete, how would that work?
- Location
- Somewhere
But if it is a memory, then how would we know it, seeing as how all our other memories are either assorted skills, PMMM or existent and nonexistent media. (I mean that in the sense of it being homuras memory, so we would have no business remembering it instead of just knowing it as we do all else)
And IIRC Madoka was the only one to do that, with only her own memories to boot.
And I may misunderstand you, but I just can not see it as being just a nightmare, it is way to, how to put it, pattern breaking for that.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Or it could even be temporally reversed. It is a dream after all; not everything will make sense.
- Location
- Somewhere
But that would make it pretty low in value, considering how well it was hidden and while I do not understand much about narrative as I dislike such expectations (as I am just a reader and certain that a good author can make (most) everything make sense)
I think this should apply, including the order of events as depicted in the dream too.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Something I definitely want to do soon is asking Homura more about the past loop.
Madoka killed Walpurgisnacht, then supposedly Witched. Did anything else happen?
Homu's not one to give details. She was crying at the time, too.
And why did Sabrina pop in when she did? Why not before?
I'd like to ask... well, everyone what they did in the time between Homu's loop start, and Sabrina's... Critical Existence Success.
Madoka killed Walpurgisnacht, then supposedly Witched. Did anything else happen?
Homu's not one to give details. She was crying at the time, too.
And why did Sabrina pop in when she did? Why not before?
I'd like to ask... well, everyone what they did in the time between Homu's loop start, and Sabrina's... Critical Existence Success.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
The fact that it's a hidden Easter Egg rather than part of the main narrative doesn't mean that it's high value. If anything, it would indicate that it's not crucial to the story, since many readers (those following the Story Only thread or the PDF version) would likely never notice it existed.
It makes no more or less logical sense for Madoka to be able to dream about events in a different timeline than for Sabrina to do so. All you can really say is, "It's magic."
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
This is pretty much demonstrably untrue considering that the antagonist of the quest at large apparently uses invisitext to talk to us.
That Madoka was having dreams of a different timeline turned out to be foreshadowing for the biggest plot twist of the entire damn series. I wouldn't brush this off.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We're really rude, not talking back.
