I haven't been following the discussion very well (read: at all). Is this an actual theory?

In short? Yes.

I know - I'm one of the biggest proponents. I just hadn't considered the karmic destiny angle.

Sabrina:
• Is a single individual composed of a myriad of mental voices acting in concert.
• Approaches the PMMM world with a highly narrative outlook.
• Has the absurd potential one would expect of Walpurgis after so many rewinds.
• Has a 'strange soul', as one would expect of Walpurgis and her conglomerate of souls.
• Has an absurd amount of knowledge from a huge number of disparate disciplines.
• Appeared shortly after Madoka wished to 'fix everything' while Walpurgis was present, after Madoka was informed about the nature of witches.
• Appeared in Mitakihara, wounded, immediately after Homura's latest attempt to kill Walpurgisnacht.
• Her barrier naturally takes on the shape of Mitakihara, the last place Walpurgis was.
• Is distinctly Caucasian, while Walpurgis is generally agreed to have originated in Europe.




You decide.
 
Well, the victims of the Soujus are technically fine, they just need a body. And the Saints do have a person who's major power is to create clones. We just need to find a way to connect Gem to Body and they should be all set. Heck, if they are feeling transhuman enough, they might be able to commission a cosmetic upgrade from Nikos afterwards.
I am not sure... but I THINK it works like a lichs phylactery, so an empty body might simply be taken over.
 
"So, Homura, speaking of bad Saturday Morning Cartoon Supervillainy..."

"What?"

"I just want to point out that declaring yourself to be evil, dressing up like Elvira the Mistress of the Dark, capturing all your friends, and tampering with their minds to make them happy never really turns out well. Hypothetically."
 
"I just want to point out that declaring yourself to be evil, dressing up like Elvira the Mistress of the Dark, capturing all your friends, and tampering with their minds to make them happy never really turns out well. Hypothetically."
why last I check it went perfectly? how about, "Relying on a plan to force your friends to kill you never ends well."?
 
"So, Homura, speaking of bad Saturday Morning Cartoon Supervillainy..."

"What?"

"I just want to point out that declaring yourself to be evil, dressing up like Elvira the Mistress of the Dark, capturing all your friends, and tampering with their minds to make them happy never really turns out well. Hypothetically."
"Why would I do that? Sounds preposterous."
 
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"Why would I do that? Sounds preposterous."
Grief is a hell of a drug.
And yet wally does exist and without wally existence Rebellion would not exist in any form. (Paradox's are not fun).
That doesn't make it the future. The future is further along the time axis. It's all on the same graph paper. That's not where Rebellion is. Madoka set the paper on fire, made a new kind of paper from the ashes, and drew new lines on the ash-paper. Someone on the not-yet-burned paper having whatevercognition powerful enough to see the results of that would be literally unbelievable.
 
Madoka set the paper on fire, made a new kind of paper from the ashes, and drew new lines on the ash-paper.
Madoka only did the first part parts 2 and 3 were totally not her doing.
Someone on the not-yet-burned paper having whatevercognition powerful enough to see the results of that would be literally unbelievable.
Anyone who understood both Madoka and Homura and the Incubators could have predicated Rebellion in it's entirety. Which going by the lastest theory of were Wally came from.....
 
OOOOOOOOK.

Votes?

Votecrafting.

[ ] Ask Homura how things went with Madoka and Sayaka while we were out. Respond as appropriate.
[ ] Apologize once more for your mishandling of the situation this morning.
This probably is a good place to start, and needs to be fleshed out a little.

Since Homura's cooled down a little from entering timestop, I think we can try and go full cooldown mode to let her relax as best as possible before asking about her day and going naturally from there.

[ ] Really. Thank Homura. Get her to cool down further. Hugging optimal.
-[ ] Ask her how about her day: be apologetic for your slip up this morning and emphazise Madoka's and Homura's well being.
-[ ] Ask if there's anything you can do to help. That supply raid's scheduled soon? You could even go right now.

[ ] Hopeful note: Maybe de-rail most of Asunaro's problems if you can talk things through with Hijiri.
[ ] Tell her about Dawn of Hyades.
-[ ] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death.
-[ ] Combat-wise, share your certainty you can kill Walpurgisnacht, but her conceptual powers should make it difficult.
-[ ] So, gathering allies: Once meguca realize how important Sabrina's powers are, you should be getting volunteers. And if not, you can push.

Stop there, see Homura's reaction, and leave the Potentialbomb as its own vote?
 
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In any case, here's my first vote draft. I didn't check it for wordcount, so it's likely way too wordy. Something to cut down on in future drafts - maybe even split it into multiple votes.
Hmmm... if we split it down to 151 (post tally-marks) we hit what looks to me like a natural beat point in the conversation for new analysis.

[ ] Ask Homura how things went with Madoka and Sayaka while we were out. Respond as appropriate.

[ ] Apologize once more for your mishandling of the situation this morning.

[ ] You've been searching your "memories" for more information on Walpurgisnacht, and have a few ideas. You don't know exactly what research Homura has compiled, but you'd like compare notes.
-[ ] Talk about the relevant aspects of Tart and Riz's powers, and on your suspicions of Walpurgisnacht's theme and behaviours as a result of her being the Witch of Helplessness, which feeds on drama.
--[ ] Listen to any particulars about Walpurgisnacht Homura shares intently. Show her you're taking this seriously. (DON'T share any thoughts about you being Walpurgisnacht.)

[ ] Homura mentioned going to resupply from the JSDF some time, and you're happy to help. When works for her? ("Now" is an acceptable answer.) If you go now, keep discussing on the way.

One thing I've brought up before, and really would like to talk about if we're bringing up the potentialbomb, is the possibility that Madoka's wish to fix everything, having created us and sent us back in time, has attached more Karmic potential to Mitakihara in general in the same way we've seen with Homura travelling back. As such it's worth asking if other magical girls seem more powerful this time around, (especially more recent contractees) or have memories and inklings of things they shouldn't. (Madoka has visions of past timelines when Homura loops in after all.)


It also might be worth talking about other... let's call them "anomalous timelines," where things that couldn't have happened, happened. Rebellion is one of those (though talking about it is a debatable), and it's one I think we're seeing some effects from at the very least in the vein of Sayaka, and possibly more, but there's also stuff like Homura's Revenge, where we see a profoundly useful fallback plan in Homura's ability to take people back with her. (Which, IIRC, was noted by Firn to be possible, but simply never attempted.)

I don't think her knowledge belongs there. How could Walpurgisnacht possibly know about Rebellion?
Well, if Rebellion actually happened then Walpurigsnacht would have been part of the Law of Cycles during it. After all, we do see her some of her familiars there. Specifically, the elephant dragging the carriage at the end.

Its possible that, rather than "never existing", Walpurgisnacht was simply taken into the law of cycles straight, like Sayaka is implied to have been. By the interpretation behind that, the world post-Madokami was instantiated rather than built over time, so there's still a record of most of the people who didn't arrive into it, but Walpurgisnacht would still exist, just instead having a sort of "Do not pass Go, go directly to Heaven" sort of deal.

(I've gone quite firmly into the camp that Rebellion actually occurred in some manner, and may well be a direct predecessor to PMAS's timeline, but my thoughts on that involve a lot of analysis that needs a proper write-up.)
 
Hey @Onmur

Can I get you to drop the :

[ ] Tell her about Dawn of Hyades.

?
The whole reason that it exists in the first place is because the Saints had a bunch of Soul Gems in Deep Freeze. And that shouldn't happen if we keep Michru alive and kicking. It isn't impossible for Hijiru to make it again, but I don't think it is relevant to WallyWallyOxenfree discussion at all, and just muddies the point of the conversation.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Jun 29, 2017 at 8:58 PM, finished with 119703 posts and 4 votes.

  • [x] Insist on thanking Homura. Appreciate her effort and patience with you, Oriko, and the whole Asunaro thing. Pull her into a hug, if possible.
    -[x] Ask her how about her day with Madoka and Sayaka: be apologetic for your slip up this morning and emphasize asking after Madoka's well being.
    -[x] Ask if there's anything you can do to help Homura. That supply raid's scheduled soon? You could even go right now.
    [x] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death. Compare notes with what Homura has observed.
    -[x] Discuss plans for Walpurgisnacht, including both recruitment and power interaction testing. When works for her?
    --[x] You want to visit Tokyo's council, does she have any recommendations?
    [x] Insist on thanking Homura. Appreciate her effort and patience with you, Oriko, and the whole Asunaro thing. Pull her into a hug, if possible.
    -[x] Ask her how about her day with Madoka and Sayaka: be apologetic for your slip up this morning and emphazise asking after Madoka's well being.
    -[x] Ask if there's anything you can do to help Homura. That supply raid's scheduled soon? You could even go right now.
    [x] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death. Compare notes with what Homura has observed.
    -[x] Discuss plans for Walpurgisnacht, including both recruitment and power interaction testing. When works for her?
    --[x] You want to visit Tokyo's council, does she have any recommendations?
    [x] Thank Homura for her assistance.
    -[x] Ask her how about her day with Madoka and Sayaka: be apologetic for your slip up this morning and emphasize Madoka's well being.
    -[x] Ask if there's anything you can do to help Homura. That supply raid's scheduled soon? You could even go right now. If she wants to upgrade we can even raid the US military bases on Okinawa, give us a chance to practice orbital flight.
    [x] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death. Compare notes with what Homura has observed.
    -[x] Discuss plans for Walpurgisnacht, including both recruitment and power interaction testing. When works for her?
    --[x] You want to visit Tokyo's council, does she have any recommendations?
 
Hey @Onmur

Can I get you to drop the :

[ ] Tell her about Dawn of Hyades.

?
The whole reason that it exists in the first place is because the Saints had a bunch of Soul Gems in Deep Freeze. And that shouldn't happen if we keep Michru alive and kicking. It isn't impossible for Hijiru to make it again, but I don't think it is relevant to WallyWallyOxenfree discussion at all, and just muddies the point of the conversation.
Well, the point was that Walpurigsnacht isn't unique, so it bears thinking about her origins.

A connection between both topics.

It's not strictly necessary, I guess? We're not actually voting yet, so no worries.
 
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Well, the point was that Walpurigsnacht isn't unique, so it bears thinking about her origins.

A connection between both topics.

It's not strictly necessary, I guess? We're not actually voting yet, so no worries.
Ah, I misinterpreted the vote and thought we were warning Homura about DoH's existence as a whole. I didn't want Homura getting all paranoid about even more unstoppable conglomerate Witches showing up to take her jobs Madoka

Girl is paranoid enough as is.
 
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And furthermore, offer to help tell Madoka about what happened, because we know how painful that would be for Homura. Specifically bringing up using grief to create video of some of what you know.

...

[jk] Use telepathy to send Madoka a copy of the series

Kyubey: Are...are you using me to stream anime?
Sabrina: Um, yes?
Kyubey: There are so many reasons you shouldn't be able to do that, I don't know where to start.
Madoka: *foams at mouth*
 
I think leaving the Potentialbomb discussion for next vote should be fine.

I'mma try and merge my vote with Onmur's, since there's some stuff it does better.

[ ] Really. Thank Homura. Get her to cool down further. Hugging optimal.

What's the "Really" in reference to? We asked Homura to stop time and have a conversation, we aren't responding to a question of hers. She also doesn't seem particularly wound up, so I'm not sure a cooldown makes sense.

-[ ] Ask her how about her day: be apologetic for your slip up this morning and emphazise Madoka's and Homura's well being.
-[ ] Ask if there's anything you can do to help. That supply raid's scheduled soon? You could even go right now.

Asking about the supply run this early should be fine. It wastes less of Homura's :turian:time:turian: to multitask, anyway.

[ ] Hopeful note: Maybe de-rail most of Asunaro's problems if you can talk things through with Hijiri.

Needs a lot more elaboration to make sense, which makes me think we should push this back, so it doesn't delay more important discussions.

[ ] Tell her about Dawn of Hyades.
-[ ] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death.
-[ ] Combat-wise, share your certainty you can kill Walpurgisnacht, but her conceptual powers should make it difficult.
-[ ] So, gathering allies: Once meguca realize how important Sabrina's powers are, you should be getting volunteers. And if not, you can push

The Dawn of Hyades is a weird segue into talking about Walpurgisnacht, given that Homu knows a lot about Walpurgis and nothing about the Dawn.

My take:

[x] Thank Homura for her assistance.
-[x] Ask her how about her day with Madoka and Sayaka: be apologetic for your slip up this morning and emphazise Madoka's well being.
-[x] Ask if there's anything you can do to help Homura. That supply raid's scheduled soon? You could even go right now.

[x] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death. Compare notes with what Homura has observed.
-[x] Discuss plans for Walpurgisnacht, including both recruitment and power interaction testing. When works for her?
--[x] You want to visit Tokyo's council, does she have any recommendations?

116 words.
 
Okay, I know the idiots in question are not Firns fault, but Gods above and Gods below, except for Anri, the entire wnemy group consists if RAGING LOONS.

'Oh, I am a clone made to gave a normal life and not having to fight witches and risk my life on a daily basis . So of course, I am horribly wronged and will wish for powers that shall enable me to go and blow up everything and be a bad cartoon villaun!"

"I can do better! I am going to kill Megucas bodies dead and gather their souls !Cause they are SO PRETTY !"

Morons.
Evil morons.
Hijiri's motivation is particularly obnoxious, in my opinion, because by all indications she got the good end of the deal. Niko took the traumatic memories and the horrible life of a meguca onto herself, and gave Hijiri the normal, happy life. And Hijiri is all, "HOW DARE SHE GIVE ME THE BETTER LIFE! I MUST HAVE MY REVENGE AND KILL EVERYBODY!" :facepalm:

The Soujos, on the other hand, are just basically the meguca equivalent of serial killers that collect trophies from their victims.


One thing I've brought up before, and really would like to talk about if we're bringing up the potentialbomb, is the possibility that Madoka's wish to fix everything, having created us and sent us back in time, has attached more Karmic potential to Mitakihara in general in the same way we've seen with Homura travelling back. As such it's worth asking if other magical girls seem more powerful this time around, (especially more recent contractees) or have memories and inklings of things they shouldn't. (Madoka has visions of past timelines when Homura loops in after all.)
As I said when we discussed this earlier: I don't see any evidence that Mitakihara and the girls there have a higher potential in this timeline than they do normally. Other than Sayaka, whose emotional focus was changed due to events and made a very different wish, the girls don't really appear to be any more powerful than normal.


[x] Share your thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death. Compare notes with what Homura has observed.
I think we should find out what Homura has learned from her own research (if there is any actual research beyond just what she learned from facing it a hundred times) before we lay out our own theories. It's possible that she's learned something that contradicts our assumptions.

[ ] Discuss Walpurgisnacht. Ask what Homura has learned from her own experiences and research. Share metaknowledge and your own thoughts about Walpurgisnacht's possible origins: Tart's Potential and gear motif, Riz's abilities, and the helpless nature shared by both Walpurgisnacht and the event of Tart's death. Compare notes.
 
What's the "Really" in reference to? We asked Homura to stop time and have a conversation, we aren't responding to a question of hers.
It's insistence.
"Thanks for being patient, Homura."

"It was no problem," Homura murmurs. "I should go."

Redshirt Army said:
She also doesn't seem particularly wound up, so I'm not sure a cooldown makes sense.
Have you seen Homura these past updates?

"They're in there?" she asks, clipped and sharp.

Homura sits on your other side, shifting uneasily away from the other couple.

Homura ignores her, of course. Or perhaps not exactly ignore. The muscles of her shoulder and neck are corded tight as steel cable, her attention zeroed in on Oriko with the intense focus of a sniper rifle's scope. Said attention lingers for a fraction longer on the smooth, rounded stump of Oriko's injured arm.

"What was this warning?" Homura asks, voice tight.

Homura relaxes a tiny fraction as Kirika hops to her feet, bouncing out of your little privacy field and disappearing upstairs. Her hand doesn't stray far from the rim of her shield, however. It hasn't moved from there throughout the entire conversation.

Homura nods, jaw tight.

Mami seems to have cheered up a little, cuddling into your side with a happy sigh. Not to be outdone, Kirika's also wrapped around Oriko, the silver-haired girl pulling her close with her good arm. Barring the wire-taut wariness cording through her body, Homura just looks faintly annoyed.

Of course, that draws Homura's attention back to her, the wire taut coil of the muscles in her neck tightening. Poor girl probably needs a massage for the stress, preferably from Madoka.

"Not as far as I saw," Oriko says, shaking her head. Homura stiffens, muscle jumping along her jaw. "But the memories of the vision have... slipped, with the loss of my powers."
Dealing with Oriko really, really stresses her.

But now that she's entered timestop?
-nks it across. Her hand's warm on your wrist, and the stress lines around her eyes are considerably lighter, here in the safety of the frozen world.
She's relaxed a little. I want to foment that, have her let go of all that pent up tension she just gathered before we start talking about increasingly heavier topics.

Needs a lot more elaboration to make sense, which makes me think we should push this back, so it doesn't delay more important discussions.
The hopeful line about de-railing the Asunaro B plot by talking to Hijiri is simply a way to end the 'relax' moment. Saying that all this excrement we just piled on Homu's and everyone's shoulders might no hit the rotatory implement so hard, after all.

Hope.
 
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