I'd go for an overwhelming display of power, create a Reality Marble with the grief spheres. Like your own Witch Barrier. All within its field, is subject to being attacked by darkness and depression. Maintain their witch gems at 80% griefed for irrational decision.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Oriko: 'I'm doomed. We're all dead anyway - or worse...'
Sabrina: "Why the hell did you do this?!"
Oriko: "Because you're the worst witch of all! Because when your Gem goes dark, civilizations will crumble at the very sight of you!"
Mami: *Murderspiral*
Sabrina: "I am slain!"
Homura: "Alas, as am I!"
Kyoko: "Hey baby, I'm sorry for being such a bitch-"
Mami: "Boom, headshot!"
Ok...maybe 50% and only Oriko's?
The idea of being able to Grief another MG is only useful for the purposes of making witches, especially in this situation.
Reason 1 - Kirika is nutso, so if Griefed, she'll be more dangerous than usual. Like, will subject self to Ludicrious Gibs just to scare you. Completely unpredictable.
Reason 2 - Oriko is a precog. If we don't plan to actually make her a witch if she pushes things, then she'll push as far as she can go, and then some. She'll say things we don't want her to, take chances trying to break out, anything she can to get the upper hand, knowing that at the end of the day, what we're threatening her with is the one tool we'll never use.
Reason 3 - Teenage girls, with magical powers, subjected to repeated trauma, are pretty much the furthest thing from 'rational' in the known universe. Source: Incubator Codex.
Since slipping the Witchbomb is a really bad idea, with Mami in tow, and infinitely worse if we do it while threatening to turn our foes into Grief Seeds, let's not go that route.
On the other hand, there is precisely one thing I remember fondly of Witch Quest, and would like very much to revive.
Napalm.
Reason 1 - Kirika is nutso, so if Griefed, she'll be more dangerous than usual. Like, will subject self to Ludicrious Gibs just to scare you. Completely unpredictable.
Reason 2 - Oriko is a precog. If we don't plan to actually make her a witch if she pushes things, then she'll push as far as she can go, and then some. She'll say things we don't want her to, take chances trying to break out, anything she can to get the upper hand, knowing that at the end of the day, what we're threatening her with is the one tool we'll never use.
Reason 3 - Teenage girls, with magical powers, subjected to repeated trauma, are pretty much the furthest thing from 'rational' in the known universe. Source: Incubator Codex.
Since slipping the Witchbomb is a really bad idea, with Mami in tow, and infinitely worse if we do it while threatening to turn our foes into Grief Seeds, let's not go that route.
On the other hand, there is precisely one thing I remember fondly of Witch Quest, and would like very much to revive.
Napalm.
Hey, I like[1] Witch Quest.
Random trivia: PMAS was born as a concept from Witch Quest, when I started drafting out notes and such to try and out think Chibi-Reaper's Oriko, Jester, and indeed, Nah-palm. After a while, I took a step back, looked at those notes, and started making changes. Over a year later, well, here we are.
[1]Present tense, godsdamnit!
FlatlineAskari
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I think we should just take off Oriko's hand at the wrist, as quickly and tidily as possible. We can always give it back later, if we feel like it.
Also, while I approve of incendiaries on general principles, in this specific instance, burning the targets down to screaming skeletons might not actually help the Mami witchbomb situation. Come to think of it, it might conceivably not help the Mami situation full stop.
(On the other hand, if Oriko's counting on antimagic to cut down our offensive options, waving around one of those WP smoke-marker-grenade thingies and helpfully pointing out what it'd do to unprotected flesh and wouldn't it be a shame if someone with limited healing capabilities were to take 90% full-thickness burns might work).
Also, while I approve of incendiaries on general principles, in this specific instance, burning the targets down to screaming skeletons might not actually help the Mami witchbomb situation. Come to think of it, it might conceivably not help the Mami situation full stop.
(On the other hand, if Oriko's counting on antimagic to cut down our offensive options, waving around one of those WP smoke-marker-grenade thingies and helpfully pointing out what it'd do to unprotected flesh and wouldn't it be a shame if someone with limited healing capabilities were to take 90% full-thickness burns might work).
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[jk] COMBINE ALL THE GRIEF MARBLES AND CHEMICAL X. ROCHELLE REBORN!
Well, you've blown right past Chibi. I won't rant about WQ, but instead note that PMAS is all kinds of awesome.
I think we should just take off Oriko's hand at the wrist, as quickly and tidily as possible. We can always give it back later, if we feel like it.
Also, while I approve of incendiaries on general principles, in this specific instance, burning the targets down to screaming skeletons might not actually help the Mami witchbomb situation. Come to think of it, it might conceivably not help the Mami situation full stop.
(On the other hand, if Oriko's counting on antimagic to cut down our offensive options, waving around one of those WP smoke-marker-grenade thingies and helpfully pointing out what it'd do to unprotected flesh and wouldn't it be a shame if someone with limited healing capabilities were to take 90% full-thickness burns might work).
Kay, so, Grievous Bodily Harm is bad. Solution: we don't take off limbs. However, if we do have to kill them, make it clear that, given Kirika's Anti-Magic, our best bet will be to use Not Magic.
Sabrina: "I've asked Homura to kill you two without magic, if you don't cooperate fully."
Homura: *Takes out jar of napalm* "She wasn't very specific as to how."
Do this while holding Mami's hand. Yes, she's going to wonder what the hell are we thinking, but as long as we're a step away from actually doing anything that drastic, she'll ask for an explanation, instead of going for the Paragon Interrupt.
Of course, we do need to approach this with some tact, which is why I haven't formulated an actual vote. Need to get the wording right, otherwise Oriko can get away, or Mami can murderspiral...A lot can go wrong here, but if we get it right, get it all right, then the end result? Homura is part of the team, Mami is on her way to becoming a balanced girl with positives in her life, Madoka doesn't contract, Sayaka doesn't contract-
Hey, guess what? I just figured out bunnycat's next move.
" since if we wanted to do that, we could just have skipped bringing Mami at all.
FlatlineAskari
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No, doing damage that would plainly be nonsurvivable if they were anything like human - incinerating them, shooting them in the head then regenerating them for interrogation at our leisure, anything along those lines - is a bad idea, because it hints at what we are. Mami already knows we can fix limbs, and knows they're extremely dangerous. At worst, she'll think we're being a bit paranoid if we separate them in a way that involves repairable maiming.
It's one thing to 'know' that you can survive the loss of, say, both legs.
But seeing it? The brain doesn't process 'they'll get better', it just processes 'holy shit delimbification!'
At worst, Oriko squeaks out a bullshit excuse that a frantic Mami latches onto and kills us for.
Is it possible we can solve this Dio style?
To elaborate:
-Mami preps ribbons that are ready to grab (and bind) Oriko into the time stop
-Homura and Sabrina gets ready to throw something heavy (eg. a steamroller) that is in contact with the ribbons
-Throw heavy object/steamroller towards Kirika
-Mami grabs Oriko
-Kirika gets hit with something non-magical, and should be enough to daze her at least to not be able to intervene
-Profit in form of bound Oriko, packaged and ready for an enthusiastic interview
But really, I just wanted someone to get hit with a steamroller because timestop.
To elaborate:
-Mami preps ribbons that are ready to grab (and bind) Oriko into the time stop
-Homura and Sabrina gets ready to throw something heavy (eg. a steamroller) that is in contact with the ribbons
-Throw heavy object/steamroller towards Kirika
-Mami grabs Oriko
-Kirika gets hit with something non-magical, and should be enough to daze her at least to not be able to intervene
-Profit in form of bound Oriko, packaged and ready for an enthusiastic interview
But really, I just wanted someone to get hit with a steamroller because timestop.
mothematics
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I favor the 'kill this bitch right now because I highly doubt she doesn't have something planned' approach. Because this bitch probably does have something planned. I'm not sure if Kiraka has contracted yet, but wasn't her power magic negation? If we unfreeze around them and Oriko has prepared for this, things could go south fast. I think that, if the effects on our Megucas psyches would be not as bad as the alternative, we just kill Kiraka to get her nulling powers of out of the way, and then see what we can get out of Oriko.
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Yeah, we have the upper hand. We have them goddamn gift-wrapped. If we were just going to off them, that'd be that.
But we're the good guys. We have goals beyond 'kill all opposition'. Each of these goals imposes certain limitations.
'Keep Mami sane', requires that we not commit to Ludicrous Gibs, Witchification, or anything else to reveal our true natures. At least for now. It also precludes us from dropping Mami out of the time stop to kill Kirika and Oriko, because Abandonment Issues.
'Don't be evil' precludes the use of lethal force against opponents who can't fight back, because cold-blooded murder is never 'justified'.
'No unnecessary death' doesn't let us shrug off the attack on MikiHouse, but it also doesn't let us just off Kirika because she complicates things.
We could simplify it all. But we'd have to compromise a lot of our goals.
But we're the good guys. We have goals beyond 'kill all opposition'. Each of these goals imposes certain limitations.
'Keep Mami sane', requires that we not commit to Ludicrous Gibs, Witchification, or anything else to reveal our true natures. At least for now. It also precludes us from dropping Mami out of the time stop to kill Kirika and Oriko, because Abandonment Issues.
'Don't be evil' precludes the use of lethal force against opponents who can't fight back, because cold-blooded murder is never 'justified'.
'No unnecessary death' doesn't let us shrug off the attack on MikiHouse, but it also doesn't let us just off Kirika because she complicates things.
We could simplify it all. But we'd have to compromise a lot of our goals.
mothematics
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While I agree entirely on what you are saying @Mecrazyfang, I just want everyone to consider that when dealing with a precog AND someone who can nope out magic at the same time, it is very difficult to be too paranoid.
What are Kirika's powers again? Anti-magic, no time warping?
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So... if she's unfrozen, and tries to use her magic... worst comes to worst, there will be a cloud of uncontrolled grief around them.
What a shame.
The best way to beat a precog is to make it so that no matter what they do, they lose. If we make, say, a very sharp, volatile grief cage around her... Kirika dispels our magic? Boom. She kills us? Boom. She drops the witchbomb on Mami, and Mami kills us? Still boom.
FlatlineAskari
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Yes.
... But. But, I just had a worrying thought. Effects of a wish, right? You get a primary power (timestop, grief manip, etc). You get a suite of secondary powers (the transformation, the weapon, Homu's hammerspace, Sayaka's regen, etc).
You also get a wish granted, not necessarily exactly within the remit of the power you're granted.
Sayaka didn't have to heal Kamijou in person. Mami got brought back from the brink of death, something only tenuously related to her powerset.
What wish would Kirika choose to make? What does she want?
Well, I think it's likely that she'd word something around the idea of protecting Oriko, and her antimagic is just a tangential secondary effect. Worst-case - I don't think it's likely to be anywhere near this bad, but it has to be worth considering the possibility - what if Oriko's invulnerable while Kirika lives?