Paths of Civilization

ThatGazzer · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

It's a risk, but it makes sense.

TheDanishLord · Jun 3, 2017

We are already kinda doing it but can we formelize the position of king and/or heir based on meritocracy

Deathbybunnies · Jun 3, 2017

veekie said:
[] [Law] Have the law favour lumping

Remember the guilds people were against? These mega guilds won't have as many votes, but they WILL discourage innovation and resist change to preserve their current leadership.
Simplest to implement, worst long term.

Oh, so we think it'll lead to guilds. Fair enough, changing my vote though I still think the long term effects of Size outweigh the possible short term benefits of Portability - I suspect it might be enough to push us over the edge from "leading" to "dominant" in some trade goods.

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Andres110 said:
Magwyna.

What about her? I remember a personal dislike between the two, not an institutional hatred of women.

Andres110 said:
Just one more thing before I drop out of this argument. Is this hubris? Are we being the Proud Man?

We're taking a minor risk - partial martial overflow has only previously been a problem when we dropped below 0 stability - and we've got a Heroic leader coming in to sort stuff out.

Also, I don't quite remember that reference.

StarkDemise · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

notgreat · Jun 3, 2017

One important thing to note: admin hero means we don't get to control our next couple turns. I suspect we're getting a golden age no matter what we choose this turn.
My personal guess is he does Policy: Restoration, but we'll have to see.

Citino · Jun 3, 2017

Deathbybunnies said:
What about her? I remember a personal dislike between the two, not an institutional hatred of women.

Part of the stability hit was that she was a woman, IIRC. It wasn't a march only thing, but more that most of our rulers tend to be men.

notgreat said:
One important thing to note: admin hero means we don't get to control our next couple turns. I suspect we're getting a golden age no matter what we choose this turn.
My personal guess is he does Policy: Restoration, but we'll have to see.

I see no problem with letting the highly competent admin hero deal with the next few turns.

ThatGazzer · Jun 3, 2017

notgreat said:
One important thing to note: admin hero means we don't get to control our next couple turns. I suspect we're getting a golden age no matter what we choose this turn.
My personal guess is he does Policy: Restoration, but we'll have to see.

That's not necessarily true.

They're only meant do that sometimes.

Academia Nut said:
AN: The last time you had a definitely Heroic Admin was actually Gwygoytha, and she took over the main turn. Heroic leaders, especially those with heroic Admin, will sometimes take control over main turn actions. If the players represent a degree of zeitgeist and/or the discussions of the ruling council, then Heroic admins need less input in order to make the big decisions.

EDIT: Found it. Emphasis mine.

Crazy7s1 · Jun 3, 2017

Citino said:
I see no problem with letting the highly competent admin hero deal with the next few turns.

He also has heroic diplo as well!

Citino · Jun 3, 2017

MrGazzer said:
That's not necessarily true.

They're only meant do that sometimes.

True, but AN has said that in general admin heroes don't need much input on improving our civ. So he'll most likely deal with most problems as they come up on his own.

Actually, @Academia Nut do we have a natural affinity towards admin heroes? I feel like we get a lot more of them than any other type.

Carrnage · Jun 3, 2017

Andres110 said:
Just one more thing before I drop out of this argument. Is this hubris? Are we being the Proud Man?

Hubris? is it Hubris when you see a man suffering to want to help rather than focus on your own affairs? is it hubris to see a land burning and want to soothe it? Is it hubris to want to feed and clothe our starving neighbours rather than pursue our own golden age? No it is Nobility itself! Hubris is a cowards word used to justify seeing the world as it is rather than what they could make it.

Vocalend · Jun 3, 2017

Hangwind said:
God no, we should be doing everything we can to move them! Their land is fertile sure, but if the volcano is going active, then they're living downwind of a toxic gas factory. And a fire factory. Very important to remember the fire.

Now that you've revised the theory, I'll have to ask again? If it will hurt us by the metric-tonne to our stats and resources, would you take the option to do an exodus?

veekie · Jun 3, 2017

Umi-san said:
Note that better river boats would help with transportation to and from the MW.

Also, y'all might want to consider whether or not we'd be able to establish a March or Colony of other Periphery State in the Hathatya or whatever it's called.

Probably a Colony. As far as we know, what's down the Hathatyn lane isn't hostiles but they have:
-Fine Dye. Possibly the same Tyrian Purple we're using, or they might be mining Aquamarine instead.
-Gold
-Silver
-Lead
-Copper
-Tin
-Bronze
-Wine

And that says Colony work, since their main role is resource production and extraction.

Hangwind said:
Considering that it would be partially bone and perfect for preserving bodies that are buried deeply enough, let's not mention this particular development to the Xoh, eh? Wouldn't want our creepy taxidermist neighbors to start getting ideas on how to improve their walls...

Uh...there'd be a LOT of ash. Like entire towns surfaced along with the wilderness.
The amount that's corpses is negligible in quantity

Deathbybunnies said:
Oh, so we think it'll lead to guilds. Fair enough, changing my vote though I still think the long term effects of Size outweigh the possible short term benefits of Portability - I suspect it might be enough to push us over the edge from "leading" to "dominant" in some trade goods.

Boat wise, not fussed like others are. We'd be getting all of them eventually.

Speed + Portable = Viking Longboats for raiding
Speed + Size = Classic ocean dominance.

We want them all, it's just comparing which is more valuable right now or later.

Deathbybunnies · Jun 3, 2017

Citino said:
Part of the stability hit was that she was a woman, IIRC. It wasn't a march only thing, but more that most of our rulers tend to be men.

Yeah, but specifically I meant that the March weren't notably hostile to her on the basis she was a woman.

Hangwind · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [Law] Leave things be

And the most complex Admin vote is winning. Again. Like, I know that Mathulmyn didn't win the Temple vote, but that's no reason to abandon him entirely! Yes, I know that our Hero means we can't crit fail, but that doesn't preclude normal failure.

Leave it alone. This is just politics as normal.

Citino · Jun 3, 2017

Deathbybunnies said:
Yeah, but specifically I meant that the March weren't notably hostile to her on the basis she was a woman.

Yeah, that's true. They were just pissed that heroic diplo means that she could outplay their leader and become king.

Andres · Jun 3, 2017

Citino said:
Probably, but traditional elven arrogance has worked out well for us so far.

Oh really?

Deathbybunnies said:
Also, I don't quite remember that reference.

Proud Man's Fall.

Hangwind · Jun 3, 2017

Vocalend said:
Now that you've revised the theory, I'll have to ask again? If it will hurt us by the metric-tonne to our stats and resources, would you take the option to do an exodus?

I would support...hmm. Certainly not us moving there.

Citino · Jun 3, 2017

Andres110 said:
Oh really?

Proud Man's Fall.

Considering we have iron, have shattered every nomad group near us, are close to another golden age, and are probably the wealthiest group in the area, yes, really.

Every group screws up once or twice, so a failure is not a sign that your policy should just be tossed out. The tax reform showed us that we have to keep our people's limits in mind, and if we want to challenge those limits, we should have enough resources on hand to deal with it.

Which, looking at our sheet, we are fairly well prepared for.

Carrnage · Jun 3, 2017

Hangwind said:
I would support...hmm. Certainly not us moving there.

Hmm maybe we could use our prodigious diplomacy and mysticism to make the xohyr think that the volcano can be appeased by sacrificing virgins to it. Meanwhile we run the other way.

wingstrike96 · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Andres · Jun 3, 2017

Citino said:
Considering we have iron, have shattered every nomad group near us, are close to another golden age, and are probably the wealthiest group in the area, yes, really.

Every group screws up once or twice, so a failure is not a sign that your policy should just be tossed out. The tax reform showed us that we have to keep our people's limits in mind, and if we want to challenge those limits, we should have enough resources on hand to deal with it.

Which, looking at our sheet, we are fairly well prepared for.

Ah. I interpreted your post as "Being arrogant has never gone wrong for us before." Thanks for correcting my misinterpretation.

BungieONI · Jun 3, 2017

veekie said:
Boat wise, not fussed like others are. We'd be getting all of them eventually.

Speed + Portable = Viking Longboats for raiding
Speed + Size = Classic ocean dominance.

We want them all, it's just comparing which is more valuable right now or later.

My thinking on the boat thing too. Gotta take em all sometime or another, because they are all useful.

Citino · Jun 3, 2017

Andres110 said:
Ah. I interpreted your post as "Being arrogant has never gone wrong for us before." Thanks for correcting my misinterpretation.

Honestly, my belief is that dealing with the guild problem now is for the best, even with the possible risks inherent. If it does go horribly wrong, we have an admin hero for the next 2-3 turns on hand to help us deal with it. We saw with our mystic hero that they can reveal what is necessary to fix problems, so if we do go into a crisis, we won't due so blind like we might have to do without one later.

Pretty much, I want to take the possible hit now to cut off the problems we would have later. We have a heroic leader, high levels of resources, and most of our neighbors are too weak or too busy to really bother us right now. Fixing this problem now is far better than leaving it to fester and then having to tackle it without what we have right now.

Edit: I mean, imagine if we had started the Tax Crisis with a heroic admin leader. Knowing exactly what we needed would have been invaluable, not to mention the massive buffs for our projects.

Ghostdevil · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Academia Nut · Jun 3, 2017

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
Although @Academia Nut what are our hero's other stats (Mysticism, Martial) ?

Mediocre for both, which means that Mysticism score is actually higher than typical for kings.

Citino said:
Actually, @Academia Nut do we have a natural affinity towards admin heroes? I feel like we get a lot more of them than any other type.

Weirdly enough, this has been all the dice.

Paths of Civilization

Minds Eye Bind

Viking Warlord

Minds Eye Bind

Excellent

Human

A Dangerous Beast, A Perpetually Fumbling QM

American Monarchist

American Monarchist

Human

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

The Devil of Ghosts