Paths of Civilization

Citino · Jun 3, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
So what: he either likes sabotaging players who think they are being clever, or the plans were just trash?

The given options have GM backing, so they are fairly predictable in how they will go wrong.

Players don't know the full story of what is happening, so write-ins tend to be made with incomplete knowledge, and thus ends about as well as you'd expect.

guyfromtheplace1 · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

BungieONI · Jun 3, 2017

Tally wally dally!

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1869 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: CA
[24][CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[1][CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Boats
[11][Boats] Size
[8][Boats] Speed
[7][Boats] Portability
[1][Boats] Keep working with current designs (+1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Infra
[15][Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[5][Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
[2][Infra] Main Snail Cultivation
[1][Infra] Main Expand Economy
[1][Infra] Main Salt Gift

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Law
[10][Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[4][Law] Have the law favour splitting
[3][Law] Have the law favour lumping
[1][Law] Attempt to close off both practices[/QUOTE]
[1][Law] Leave things be
Total No. of Voters: 29

drake_azathoth · Jun 3, 2017

...Is there really a reason to make a big move like war when we've got a diplo hero AND a golden age in the works? Really, wait a turn and we may just see those villages begging to join us rather than have to actually fight over them. Certainly I can see acquiring more territory that way.

Also- this idea that we haven't taken territory via war recently is bupkis. That's exactly what the Marches are, and we are stretching our infrastructure to hold everything together.

I think we need better roads again before the next round of expansion. Please think twice before you vote to seize the extra territory.

mc2rpg · Jun 3, 2017

Dieb said:
We're at 14 martial already. We've always crushed them boat to boat. We don't NEED any more martial to crush them on land. We have iron, we have way more manpower, and we aren't on fire (which apparently they are). Martial overflow has been shown to be very bad and very hard to drain away. Don't get more martial!

The drain away point is so obvious this time around though. If we are too high on martial and something bad is going to happen I would think it would be our warriors pushing on past the villages we peacefully took and just taking the entire nation. Considering how on fire they are this might be a good thing for everyone.

Reader of all · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

If we build bigger boats it would require us to get more trees which I expect would put us at 4/4 for our forests we really should expand the forests soon

Somebodynobody10 · Jun 3, 2017

BungieONI said:
[10][Law] Attempt to close off both practices

Here's the question, though: what would replace the system.
Seriously. What is the planned action to direct things towards the goal?

pbluekan · Jun 3, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
Here's the question, though: what would replace the system.
Seriously. What is the planned action to direct things towards the goal?

That was my concern with that. I would much rather go with lumping as it is a fairly simple option, and deal with the corruption as it pops up.

Rakuhn · Jun 3, 2017

BungieONI said:
No. The canal is land locked.

The canal connected the river of Valleyhome with another river. The map only displays two rivers within our territory (three counting the Black River): One leading down to the Not!Persian Gulf and one to the Not!Black Sea.

DragonParadox · Jun 3, 2017

drake_azathoth said:
...Is there really a reason to make a big move like war when we've got a diplo hero AND a golden age in the works? Really, wait a turn and we may just see those villages begging to join us rather than have to actually fight over them. Certainly I can see acquiring more territory that way.

Also- this idea that we haven't taken territory via war recently is bupkis. That's exactly what the Marches are, and we are stretching our infrastructure to hold everything together.

I think we need better roads again before the next round of expansion.

Because we would be killing our trading rivals, expanding into lands with people and infrastructure for once and doing so peacefully, beside that a Golden Age is barely worth mentioning.

McLuvin · Jun 3, 2017

drake_azathoth said:
.Is there really a reason to make a big move like war when we've got a diplo hero AND a golden age in the works? Really, wait a turn and we may just see those villages begging to join us rather than have to actually fight over them. Certainly I can see acquiring more territory that way.

Okay so
A. We need to bleed off Martial, a good war is the best way to do that at this point, especially as it gives us some nice new long term benefits such as destroying our main competitor in Wine, Dye and Salt.
B. It's not even a guaranteed war, seriously they are on the brink already, just annexing the villages peacefully as they want to join the Ymaryn might lead them to being destroyed as they suddenly lose 8 to 10 econ on top of their forest fires, trade failures and civil war.
We might not even have to lift a finger...

Lailoken · Jun 3, 2017

notgreat said:
The problem with Salt Gift is that it gives too much stats. Snail Cultivation is only +1 and that's already kinda scary. Salt Gift with a heroic diplo leader last time gave +3 net stats (and +2 prestige). It also doesn't have the trade dominance of Snails or Salt, nor does it have the additional effects of the Snails.

Yet, it magnifies our mass diplo-annexation driven by a heroic diplomat and administrator.

"Hey, did you guys just finish another pointless war? Well, we're just over here having a golden age and everybody else you know has already joined. By the way, here's a bunch of precious life-sustenance because we have so much we can afford to just give it away. Feel free to stop by if you want to talk alliances and client state status while all the mean major powers are distracted."

BungieONI · Jun 3, 2017

pbluekan said:
That was my concern with that. I would much rather go with lumping as it is a fairly simple option, and deal with the corruption as it pops up.

I'm okay with this winning. Personally I'm not sure what would come out of it if we do the close off. Some legal definition of what a "guild" is, is likely.

Academia Nut · Jun 3, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
So what: he either likes sabotaging players who think they are being clever, or the plans were just trash?

Usually I try to present a balanced set of general options. Trying to micromanage a vote via write-in will eventually result in me not reading it out of disgust and just going "This plan tripped out of the gate, you have made your situation worse, try again". The bigger danger is that I presented the options for a reason having to do with information asymmetry and trying to get clever just results in the players diving head first into something that they were supposed to encounter later.

Like waking up the dungeon final boss early and essentially handing them all the advantages.

Somebodynobody10 said:
Here's the question, though: what would replace the system.

That depends on how well the people within the game can figure out how to achieve the goal set by the players.

Rakuhn said:
The canal connected the river of Valleyhome with another river. The map only displays two rivers within our territory: One leading down to the Not!Persian Gulf and one to the Not!Black Sea.

The canal links the hills above Valleyhome to the Snake River, the one that connects to Redshore and the Not!Blacksea. It does not connect the rivers.

Dieb · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

AN said Attempt to close off both practices was the least likely to cause problems. It DOES have more of a chance to fail and cause short term problems, but a Hero Admin and Diplo heir will hopefully help a bunch with that.

I'm not sure about attempting to take control, but it DOES seem like a very interesting idea. And as I've said, if we do it, we should do Saltern. Just say no to overflowing martial.

Somebodynobody10 · Jun 3, 2017

drake_azathoth said:
...Is there really a reason to make a big move like war when we've got a diplo hero AND a golden age in the works? Really, wait a turn and we may just see those villages begging to join us rather than have to actually fight over them. Certainly I can see acquiring more territory that way.

Also- this idea that we haven't taken territory via war recently is bupkis. That's exactly what the Marches are, and we are stretching our infrastructure to hold everything together.

I think we need better roads again before the next round of expansion. Please think twice before you vote to seize the extra territory.

For all we know, the lands we would be conquering may end up sprouting a new civ. Alternatively, they do join us but quite depleted because of infighting/famine caused by Civil War YAY.

pbluekan · Jun 3, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
So what: he either likes sabotaging players who think they are being clever, or the plans were just trash?

Also, this quest is much more about the overall picture of guiding the society rather than the every day minutiae. Write-ins tend to go for the minutiae every single time.

mastigos · Jun 3, 2017

@Academia Nut what even happens if we cascade overflow all of our resource stats? I'm just trying to picture how "we're so goddamn good at everything that our military causes trouble" works in-universe.

Umi-san · Jun 3, 2017

Therealtahu said:
Before you all get too excited, this is an Heroic Admin and Diplomatic Heir. He's not King just yet so he might not be able to use his full ability.

This changes my planned timeline though. The Hathatyn are practically handing themselves to us on a platter.

There's also the possibility of evolving a martial trait from all this conquering. I'm not too happy about this if it leads our People into "saving" everyone from their current civilizations.

No, he will be able to use his Heroic skill. Word of AN.

Somebodynobody10 · Jun 3, 2017

McLuvin said:
on top of their forst firea

What?

notgreat · Jun 3, 2017

drake_azathoth said:
...Is there really a reason to make a big move like war when we've got a diplo hero AND a golden age in the works? Really, wait a turn and we may just see those villages begging to join us rather than have to actually fight over them. Certainly I can see acquiring more territory that way.

Also- this idea that we haven't taken territory via war recently is bupkis. That's exactly what the Marches are, and we are stretching our infrastructure to hold everything together.

I think we need better roads again before the next round of expansion. Please think twice before you vote to seize the extra territory.

Then why aren't you voting for my original vote? (+lumping since it's the simplest and thus least likely to have a stability loss)
[] [CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
[] [Boats] Size
[] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Somebodynobody10 said:
Here's the question, though: what would replace the system.
Seriously. What is the planned action to direct things towards the goal?

It's basically tightening the requirements on both sides and likely adding some time-limited laws to allow for temporary bound-breaking during reorganization. It requires more admin work and is most likely to cause problems, but a heroic admin is the best time for that.

Lailoken · Jun 3, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
Here's the question, though: what would replace the system.
Seriously. What is the planned action to direct things towards the goal?

Geographic administration, duh.

BungieONI · Jun 3, 2017

Dieb said:
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

AN said Attempt to close off both practices was the least likely to cause problems. It DOES have more of a chance to fail and cause short term problems, but a Hero Admin and Diplo heir will hopefully help a bunch with that.

I'm not sure about attempting to take control, but it DOES seem like a very interesting idea. And as I've said, if we do it, we should do Saltern. Just say no to overflowing martial.

Our Martial is still going to be "booku fooku so haaaiiii" out the other end but at least Saltern helps. *wipes sweat with shaky hand*

We're in for a ride!

mc2rpg · Jun 3, 2017

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
[X] [Boats] Speed
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Warlord D Thoran · Jun 3, 2017

[x] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[x] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
[x] [Boats] Keep working with current designs (+1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion)
[x] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation

Paths of Civilization

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Somethin's Fucky ...

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Somethin's Fucky ...

Procrastinating.

Seven gremlins in a trench coat