The Diplo stat is more accurately 'luxury goods'. The most common source of those in the ancient world was trade and diplomatic relations, and they're used as bribes for diplomacy, but they aren't diplomacy really.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Australia
@Academia Nut, wouldn't the war options result in us having less Diplomacy due to us not trading with the HK any more?
- Location
- Illinois
I'm not really for it either, but it is something to consider.
Also, studying iron weapons won't really help you figure out how to make it. I can study a piece of steel for as long as I like, but it won't help me figure out how to make it, since the smelting process isn't evident in the finished product. The best they will be able to do is figure out where to get iron (answer: Pretty much freaking everywhere). The smelting process is the hard part, and that required a nat 100 during a golden age innovation roll for us to figure it out.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
They already know how to smelt copper. They presumably have found deposits that are green and have seen copper verdigrize.
The iron will rust, making red, so they'll just need to find deposits that are red.
They then just need to try smelting the stones, see that it's not working, and do a couple of art patronages till they have better kilns. Bam, iron in one small jump and a couple generations of research.
- Location
- The underworld
[X] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)
Fuck it, lets take over the Highlanders
about time we expanded
Fuck it, lets take over the Highlanders
about time we expanded
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes.
You're always sending out expeditions that aren't directly sponsored by the king, those in fact are part of where the Diplo score comes from. The ones sent to the Metal Workers and Hathatyn just haven't revealed their findings yet.
Yes actually, I dropped the ball on that, although for balance reasons I may slide it off to the side for the moment.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
So, I was talking militarism in general. My whole thing is that this empire building you want to do, can be done quite well without conquering our way through our neighbors. We have the tech, infrastructure, and defensive advantage to outlast them entirely. Eventually they fail. We've seen every civ around us detonate internally, and mind you that was always caused by excessive conflict. What we are seeing now? It's just a little preview of what happens.
The nomads are a great example. They literally are full martial and can barely hold a coherent civ together, and require heroic units to unite them. It's only after they let go of some of their martial traits that they actually built the empire they've got now. The Spirit Talkers? The Dead Priests? The first literally couldn't stop attackig or they'd destroy their civ, and by continuing to attack, destroyed their civ. The Dead Priests forged an empire for a while but had to let go of many of their raiding traits to actually make the empire worth anything.
We have forged an empire that has so far outlasted all the others with almost no instances of civil unrest. If you recall, the others broke apart Andrew reformed multiple times. We have a higher population, a better tech base, and a better infrastructure base than anyone. We aren't going away. What we have done for the last 80 turns has worked, and worked well. Changing it for a strategy that has been shown not to work is patently foolish.
So, when you say we should capitalize on our advantage, I'm going to say that we already are, to a massive degree. This temple? The Palace? Our rediculous ability to basically buy whatever we want because we have such high Econ? The tech advancements in chariots, roads, medicine, boatbuilding(soon), metallurgy, even warfare, were all made possible by iron. This is how we are leveraging that advantage. Doing it through conquest is pretty boring, honestly. That advantage isn't going away either. Eventually, sure other civs will have iron working, but when they do, we will have our built and our grown them so far it won't make a difference. Iron isn't the be all end all. We are literally out econning them, and it works.
As for Iron working, of course I supported Iron working, but supporting iron has no direct relation to militarism. It makes superior tools and is a branch point for hundreds of technologies. I'm a little confused as to why you seem to think supporting iron means going a more militaristic route, especially when I and most of the rest of this thread voted to build tools first, rather than weapons.
By the way, a couple things in your post:
Shouldn't have*
Pretty sure you meant capitalizing
[X] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)
If war wasn't probable even with the hunting down option it might be worth doing. As it is I don't see the point of giving up 5 diplomacy just to be fighting this war anyways at the start of next turn.
If war wasn't probable even with the hunting down option it might be worth doing. As it is I don't see the point of giving up 5 diplomacy just to be fighting this war anyways at the start of next turn.
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- Location
- Illinois
@Academia Nut what exactly does the king plan to do with the warriors who invaded the HK if we choose to capture them anyways? Do we give them a trial or something?
- Location
- Usa, pittsburgh pennsylvania
[X] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)
- Location
- Philippines
I do not get why you people are willing to go against our traits so much we are in the wrong we are the disharmonious ones and there is a probable chance that we will be dragged into the war anyway so why?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Any survivors will be interviewed to try and figure out what exactly happened. There is definite suspicion that this was planned by someone, but given the way things played out it is possible that no one is currently in charge, or something else is going on. Depending on what is found there will likely be executions, exiles, and half-exile duty, but it is entirely possible that there are warriors who had no idea what was going along and were just defending themselves and their comrades with no conception of more malicious intent. Some of the news has in fact come from individuals who figured that they should return to the king rather than stay camped in the area. Oddly enough, some of the more moral warriors are sticking around because they figure if they leave the position before relief comes then Thunder Horse raiders will massacre and carry off the civilian population whose defenders they just wiped out.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
I can't say this enough I love the Ymaryn for little things like this.
- Location
- Illinois
Ouch. Do we plan on making sure the civilians are safe if we choose the capture option? As in, will we garrison the fort until the blackbirds tell us that the HK are sending troops to retake the area?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Hittites, from what we can tell, would actually allow their subservient states to buy and use iron plows and equipment (with a notable exception of a file for sharpening; they provided sharpening as a service.) Turns out having iron doesn't get you closer to smelting it really. However, it did give them crappy dull iron weapons from beating their plowshares into swords.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The big reason why the option to retrieve the warriors has a higher chance of triggering war is in large part because if the Highlanders show up when you have a bunch of fresh warriors coming in, they're going to draw conclusions first and ask questions later.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Ok, fuck it.
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
I never liked the greater good anyhow.
Crazy7s1
Excellent
With the luck we've had with diplomacy in the past that's exactly what will end up happening,
- Location
- Illinois
Wouldn't it be better to send the blackbirds to sneak in and retrieve them then? The blackbirds are also our kinda sorta police force, so sending them in would also make sense in terms of what the mission is, as well as allowing us to sneak in more guys without the HK thinking we are reinforcing the area.
Or would the warriors freak out if the blackbrids were the ones doing this or something?
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That still leaves the civilian population ready to be slaughtered and enslaved.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
If we decide to bring our warriors in, what will happen to the villagers of the city? Will we take them with us so that they aren't defenseless or leave them behind because they aren't ours?
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Not when the villagers exist and the village is without forest cover due to being in lowland, I think. And chariots are faster than Blackbirds in plains. (I know Blackbirds can ride chariots but then someone needs to park it.)
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
That concern is about TH raiders; the HK response should be adequate to see them off.
Hopefully, the HK and TH show up at the same time, and distract the HK from our fleeing warriors.
Again, I really wish we had an official delegation going east...
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