Guys, I think that for the crisis it would be best to be unanimous. I think(?) that we may actually get a bonus to our actions when we're completely united, like when we fought with the Nomads. I would like for us to have that same unity now and maybe get through this phase of the crisis intact. Therefore, I would ask that if it seems that there is no hope of your vote winning by 3PM Eastern Standard Time, you change your votes to the winning one. I realize that I'm asking a lot. All I can offer is the assurance that if you have managed to turn the vote back your way by the time limit, I will cast my vote for whoever is winning then.
Please, I'm begging. Give us the best possible chance to succeed here. If it were a normal vote, I wouldn't ask. Please, let us be united in our time of crisis.
@Hangwind I understand how amazing it would be to have an unanimous decision for this vote since AN would probably give us a trait upgrade for sure but mass tagging people just isn't the way to do it especially when some people like Karugus have spent paragraphs arguing for his position.
Mostly practical materials, basically your engineering materials list.
Yes, I will be reworking a number of things.
I honestly have no idea how that happened. Brain fart.
Also, this appears to be the decision.
[X][Temple] Sacred Forest
[X][Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X][Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X][Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
Hmmmm... yeah, whatever your plans were for next turn, chuck them out. You guys have a preternatural knack for picking the worst administrative decisions.
[X][Temple] Sacred Forest
[X][Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X][Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X][Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
Walling off the city made a considerable amount of sense to help better control access too and from the overall area and thus make it easier to track what was coming in and going out of the city. The clan issue however was a bit more of a problem and the king and advisors had long discussions over it. In the end, they didn't want to too radically change the clan structures, the People had relied on them since forever, so a small patch should help correct the problem. Simply make it easier for clans to adopt new members to allow them to reorganize disparate people geographically. There was already enough movement that there were some provisions for how to deal with people who had moved to help fulfill an essential job or the like and needed to integrate into the local community, or to form new communities when settling new land. It was simple and the People had this...
Only as they started working out the implementation, someone pointed out that given the large number of people coming from outside Valleyhome from elsewhere, they couldn't apply the new rules just to Valleyhome or it would create a massive snarl. Adoption into a new clan also implied cutting ties with the old clan, and if you didn't make the process the same for all of the People you could end up in a situation where you had people who belonged to two or more clans and had competing obligations to multiple groups. Especially if you ever had a situation of someone later leaving Valleyhome, and there were also other places like Redshore where there were enough people that you could have similar dynamics. A broad change would be needed to prevent accidental imbalances.
It all seemed simple enough, just a few changes to make it significantly easier for people to change clans. This should smooth things out nicely.
Only the clan change system had been intended for people who might only ever change clans once in their lifetime, and pretty much always due to distance or destruction. Even with the changes there were still major problems with people simply not accepting that moving to another side of the city was enough to actually sever family ties, a sentiment frequently shared by both old and new clans. Accusations of spying - and the subsequent assaults and murders over said accusations - went through the roof... and then the weird effects started to crop up. Things like abusing the new ease of changing clans to artificially manipulate taxation or leadership. In one of the more absurd situations a mass of people "spontaneously" joining a clan forced it to fissure due to being too large, with many of the newcomers then spontaneously leaving one of these new clans to join the other and causing fissure again and so on and so forth, with the end result being a total of three "new" clans with entirely separate leadership who could then tip the voting process for a local sub-chief...
While some of these events were more blatant than others, the chiefs soon found themselves scrambling to control all these new forms of "legal" corruption that were springing up. An early patch to force a longer waiting period before switching clans to avoid the most ludicrous abuses ended up producing an accidental group of people who for one reason or another were de facto outside the clans. The king was all for simply going "Okay, this was a silly idea!" when word came north that someone had done something catastrophically stupid.
Negative Stability + Max Military Malus Activated!
No one was exactly sure who was in charge, and in fact given the circumstances the possibility of no one currently being in charge seemed distinctly possible, but in any case a band of warriors had occupied the village in the lowlands just beyond the cataract that separated the People from the Highlanders. The stories coming back were not exactly coherent, with some claiming that the reason they had been gathered was for a long range trading expedition into the lowlands requiring additional escorts giving the conflict, while others said that they had in fact been actively recruited for the purpose of seizing control. In any case, it sounded like the group had approached the village as traders or in the guise of traders, someone had started a fight, and then things kept going until the People had realized that they were in control of the village because there was no one to oppose them, and the men decided that since they had fought and spilled blood over the issue they didn't feel like giving it back.
While it was just one relatively minor village, the Highlanders were obviously going to be livid. A retaliation force would obviously already be on their way, and they probably wouldn't take "Uhh... sorry, this was an accident" as an answer. While several advisors suggested just letting the fools get killed as appeasement, many others expressed considerable discomfort with the idea of just abandoning members of the People, especially when it sounded like at least some of the warriors down there had thought they were only defending themselves.
Actually, as they talked, a suspicion began to grow that there was a snake among the People who had probably engineered the incident while still keeping it not the sort of blatant attack that would have the People absolutely wash their hands of the entire incident. There were some who were counseling against just cutting the perpetrators loose as it might end with the People losing any chance of figuring out what exactly had happened. Also, given reports of how efficiently the warriors had taken out the defenders of the village with their iron weapons there was a definite degree of unease over what might happen if the Highlanders didn't wipe them out.
Given this mess of hot gygo, the king had to make a decision immediately. What to do?
What to do?
[] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)
[] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
[] Reinforce position (Conquer new province, war with Highlanders)
[] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)
Whoops. It seemed I really did fuck up with the Adoption option. Sue me I guess for making an assumption that it was applied to the city only and that a patch job was workable.
I really should have payed more attention when he said the advisors thought it the simplest as well as remembered my lesson from the Tax and asked AN more questions.
This clan goofa is going to be a problem, going by these
Only the clan change system had been intended for people who might only ever change clans once in their lifetime, and pretty much always due to distance or destruction. Even with the changes there were still major problems with people simply not accepting that moving to another side of the city was enough to actually sever family ties, a sentiment frequently shared by both old and new clans. Accusations of spying - and the subsequent assaults and murders over said accusations - went through the roof... and then the weird effects started to crop up. Things like abusing the new ease of changing clans to artificially manipulate taxation or leadership. In one of the more absurd situations a mass of people "spontaneously" joining a clan forced it to fissure due to being too large, with many of the newcomers then spontaneously leaving one of these new clans to join the other and causing fissure again and so on and so forth, with the end result being a total of three "new" clans with entirely separate leadership who could then tip the voting process for a local sub-chief...
While some of these events were more blatant than others, the chiefs soon found themselves scrambling to control all these new forms of "legal" corruption that were springing up. An early patch to force a longer waiting period before switching clans to avoid the most ludicrous abuses ended up producing an accidental group of people who for one reason or another were de facto outside the clans. The king was all for simply going "Okay, this was a silly idea!" when word came north that someone had done something catastrophically stupid.
So we have all sorts of weird shit going on that is corruption related and other silliness. The chiefs seem to have it slipping from their hands, it's not gone completely off the rails yet but the stupid is building up. The people de facto outside the clan system could go somewhere interesting, but 90% or better to be not helpful right now. The king being tempted to go for a "This was a dumb" right now means we should have a back out option next turn, in addition to whatever else we have to deal with. Whether we should take that is dependent on how the HK Situation turns out and the other environmental factors. Switching to a geographical or occupational should be fine, I did say that those can lead to their own issues and they do, while they also do have good points and in the previous vote I thought that adoption was as simple and an acceptable alternative that worked well with our extant traits. It still does follow them but it's far more complicated than I thought.
Anyhooodles~
The vote. So logic and thinking out the consequences beyond the immediate is what needs to happen here and what needs to happen for future votes of this nature.
I'll start from the top then.
[] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)
What does this mean/entail? Immediately and on the surface we let the Highlanders exact vengeance and abandon our rouges to this fate and then try to make amends. This is attempting to fulfill Justice.
I.e our warriors killed their people so it makes sense to let them right that wrong by exacting vengeance. It's horrible but these rogues did commit a wrong by attacking this town without command or any real provocation, though the situation is confused on that point. After this we entreat with the Highlanders in an attempt to clear the waters and explain that our warriors did this without our authorization and we do not actually want war with them and we apologize for our wrong. Hopefully they are accepting and forgiving and we have no war. <- (All of this is in Ymaryn thought patterns based on my understanding of their traits).
This is the surface but there are some assumptions made here and other considerations.
First has to do with the "chance to spawn a new faction" possibility. The above thought process assumes the HK can kill them. But the Highlanders may not be able to fulfill their vengeance and Justice fails right out the gate. Any attempt to make amends should if considered logically, be crippled though not completely slain if it initially relied on them getting vengeance.
-A sub consequence of this is that if these rogues do survive they will know we left them to die and will be inherently hostile to us.
-They likely do not have the ability to make iron, having no access to the required resources or the knowledge base, but what they do have will make them very annoying for the time they do have it. If left long enough, which is unlikely when both the HK and us want them gone, they should develop at least the techniques to reforge what they have and maintain it as a sort of elite armory. At which point we have a hostile Iron faction in the Lowlands.
-It may be that the situation goes so pear shaped that we have a three way going between us, the HK, and the rogues all at once. Though this is somewhat unlikely the dice have been mean enough before to give us this kind of shit.
Second is that our other people due to our Symphony and CA traits will not be pleased with this course of action. This is a source for further instability, making getting out of the zone where this malus is triggered more difficult if this instability hits. However, The Greater Good combined with Protective Justice may apply and our people will accept this course as Justice served.
Third. This is a regression to Eye for an Eye trait behavior. On the one hand we have gotten past that because it doesn't always work, and breeds conflict if applied improperly due to people having differing ideas of fairness. There is a significant failure point already outlined in the first thing I bring up. No vengeance, no eye for an eye. On the second hand it is also probably close to the Justice of the Highlanders so if it does work it has a good chance of working well because it meshes with what the HK want.
-This Eye for an Eye is also unpalatable to me personally because it entails leaving our people to die when they may well have not done anything wrong.
Four the problem of the possible snake. The consideration here is that sometimes humans think up a conspiracy to explain an event when there actually is no conspiracy. The snake may not exist, so we need not be concerned of them getting away, and it also means that these warriors did this of their own volition at basically random because of greed. In this particular case they deserve the HK gutting them. If there is however a snake then this option means they likely get away with it. If they are smart enough to plan this, they are smart enough to escape before the HK kill them if it looks like the HK will win. And if it looks like they won't be killed and the rogues will survive the short term because the HK can't kill them, their plan was a total success.
Five this generally interacts poorly with the Clan Issue. The instability brought about by leaving them makes any changes we need to do harder, and the loss of trust in the King (the loss of Legitimacy) compounds/feeds that. This is before the possibilities that we may be at war with the HK because the amends failed and we may have a newborn and very angry iron armed faction to deal with. If either of these occur we have a massive shitstorm to deal with.
Six is the concern that the HK may desire other forms of restitution in making amends. Unlikely considering my understanding that they have some advanced form of Eye for an Eye for their Justice trait, but such things complicate the situation if they do come up. We are generally rich enough to give it to them but the issue becomes that our people may not like to do it and if the situation evolves in the wrong direction this becomes very close to paying the Dane.
Seven the HK may very well not want to go to war over this as much as they may normally given that they may want to focus on the Thunder Horse. This is a bonus to our attempt to make amends. It is quite effective with this option and makes it more likely to succeed.
Eight if the HK can kill them they will loot the iron equipment and make use of it in some way. Possibly against us and definitely against the Thunder Horse. How well they will be able to reverse engineer it is difficult to say, but giving them the opportunity is a bad idea all around. It may incidentally help us but in the long run will come back to bite us, especially if they can figure out how to make it themselves.
Nine doing this can interact positively with our Megaproject. The war is only a possible chance to occur and with this situation completely solved it lets us focus on the Temple. Probably by switching to mega support while we focus on other things and making sure Valleyhome doesn't pop it's True City status. The Legitimacy is an issue, but one that is easily fixed with a single secondary. Any other instability caused by leaving our people makes it worse and harder to do however.
Ten since we killed all their defenders the village is vulnerable. Backing out of this however, means that the rouges will defend it. And then either the HK wipe them out and they defend it, or the rouges win and defend it.
Probably missed one or another of something, so please enlighten me and provide citations so I can verify for myself.
[] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
What does this mean/entail? We head south to this border town and attempt to capture the warriors to deal with and then appease the Highlanders. This is attempting to fulfill Justice.
I.e our warriors killed the Highlanders people so it makes sense to capture them so that we can figure out the story of what actually happened. Once this is done we then will enact punishment and attempt to apologize to the Highlanders to try and clear the waters. We did not want our warriors doing this and we do not want war and we apologize for the astronomical fuck up. <- (All of this is in Ymaryn thought patterns based on my understanding of their traits).
That's my take on the surface but there are assumptions being made and additional considerations.
First comes the question of how will we capture our errant warriors? With more warriors? Sure but there are loyalty issues with using just warriors that could make the situation far worse. Blackbirds and Carrion Eaters seem more applicable to this task. The question becomes then will our King think to use Blackbirds plus Carrion Eaters plus a back up of warriors? It seems like simple logic, especially with the story we recently got out of Hathaya about conflicting loyalty through our traders. Taken all together, it seems the combination of this plus our advisors plus institutional experience plus the fact that Blackbirds are damn near perfect for this to my understanding pushes this to be the most likely response.
-A sub issue related to this is we actually have to catch them. If we don't then we have a problem of Justice failing right out the gate and making amends becomes much harder. If we go for standard warriors the chance for failure is higher than it is for if we go for a mixed force.
-Another sub issue is that by Word of AN this is a big part of what could cause war between us, by moving a big martial force in they may see it and kill first and ask questions second.
Second how will we enact punishment? This is less of an issue but Protective Justice could swing between "Give them over to the HK after getting the story" or "Punish them in house after we get the story". The hand them over idea means that they will likely all end up dead and give a bonus to making amends because Justice is served in both sides eyes. The issue is that our people may not like giving them up possibly causing instability unless The Greater Good applies itself. Punishing them in house has little risk of angering the wider People because these warrior rogues are criminals and you are supposed to punish criminals. It is neutral when it comes to the HK however, this is where part of the probable war chance comes from in my mind, with the HK possibly feeling that Justice was not served. Thus a disagreement over Justice with a martial civ which will mean war.
Three if there is a snake, this is the option to capture them. If there is a snake and we catch them then this conspiracy gets immolated root and branch and we also punish the warriors who are actually in the wrong and from our view Justice is completely served. On the other side there is a possibility that there is no snake and the warriors just did this out of greed and human stupidity. This means taking this action is simply punishing them for their crimes, which is good anyway, unless it devolves into a witch hunt for a snake that does not exist. On the third side there is the issue that the snake may exist and we just don't catch them. This means that they are still out there to cause issues. How much this will be a problem is how invested in this were they and how old are they. It is quite likely that this failing will cripple them when it comes to making plans that affect things on the timescale we players operate at. It also deals with the warriors who have committed crimes.
-A sub consideration of this is that no matter how it turns out there is no indication that the rogues will be able to make a faction of their own after our pursuit. This also means that there is no leak of iron into the Lowlands, or at least such a small leak dispersed over a wide area as the rogues scatter that it is not useful for reverse engineering efforts.
Four is the concern that the HK may desire other forms of restitution in making amends. Unlikely considering my understanding that they have some advanced form of Eye for an Eye for their Justice trait, but such things complicate the situation if they do come up. We are generally rich enough to give it to them but the issue becomes that our people may not like to do it and if the situation evolves in the wrong direction this becomes very close to paying the Dane.
Five this generally interacts neutrally with the Clan Issue. There is a small chance for instability caused by unhappiness due to how circumstances make the punishment work out. We unfortunately also have a probable war with the HK due to Justice disagreements and Martial movements. However, on the flipside we have the strong chance of demonstrating to our people a desire for Justice as the Ymaryn see it thus not generating additional instability and there is no chance for a second faction that is pissed at us to form, minimizing the issues to just the Justice problem and probable war.
Six is that this is Protective Justice's bailiwick. We try to find out the reasons for the crime so we can hunt it out to the root and purge it, much like what Protective Justice desires. Likely not to evolve it since this seems more solidly inside it's purview than near a border or something similar.
Seven the HK may very well not want to go to war over this as much as they may normally given that they may want to focus on the Thunder Horse. This is a bonus to our attempt to make amends. It is not as effective with this option but is a valid effect.
Eight doing this can interact positively with our Megaproject. The war is only a probable chance to occur and with this situation completely solved if it works out it lets us focus on the Temple. Probably by switching to mega support while we focus on other things and making sure Valleyhome doesn't pop it's True City status.
Nine since we killed all their defenders the village is vulnerable. Sending in our people to capture them will mean that the village is somewhat defended due to our presence. This can cause the problem however, that the HK may shoot first and ask later. The period of them being undefended is going to be small because it will combo of us and the rouges and then the HK if things at least kind of work out.
Probably missed one or another of something, so please enlighten me and provide citations so I can verify for myself.
[] Reinforce position (Conquer new province, war with Highlanders)
What does this mean/entail? We head south and go to war with the Highlanders reinforcing somewhat.
I.e There is some kind of mixup here and we need to support our guys. The People will stick together against all-comers and defend each other. The Nomads could not hurt us so neither will we let these guys. <- (All of this is in Ymaryn thought patterns based on my understanding of their traits).
First this means war. This is a resource sink since we are not making a March and will have to make at least Secondary war missions. We can easily stand them off with our iron weapons and fortifications. It will be a tough fight but we can do it. The problem is that it gives a large advantage to the Thunder Horse since the HK are now split on two fronts. Such an advantage to the TH is a very detrimental thing to us in the long term.
Second we introduce iron to the Lowlands on the tip of our spears. In the subsequent battles they may recover our weapons. This starts the race to reverse engineer it. The knowledge may be lost if the HK collapse, but there is only a chance of that. Examples of our weapons and arms should still exist as trophies and in storage as relics in temples and other sacred places, and various places of loot storage. Whether the TH may also eventually benefit from that is very questionable but it seems... prudent... to avoid that opportunity opening to them. Also if the HK somehow pull through then they have access to Iron samples and may eventually develop it to the point of using it against us.
Third is that this lets the snake if they exist win. This course validates them in some way and says to the people that this sort of taking advantage of something hinky in martial relations with other polities is okay. Long term this may have !!FUN!! consequences. It also does not try to find out the true story and means some warriors may be escaping Justice.
Four it opens the way to setting our traits onto a more martial path. While not always bad, our civ does not seem to be doing well with the Martial traits it already has. Such traits are also very hard to remove due to self reinforcing natures and the behaviors they spawn. Any changes made here, or that come from this will be long term.
Five this generally interacts positively(?) with the Clan Issue. There is little chance for instability from the wider People because we are treating these rouges as something we intended and our harmony traits will get folks behind supporting the rogues. The major issue with this is that it means we will be doing the Clan Issue during a war. This is very distracting and if we need actions during it dropping the secondary war mission may not be possible and switching to Offense or Defense has other consequences. If it goes poorly by the HK winning out in a big way we may well start having rapidly compounding problems.
Six there is the matter that doing this can interact very poorly with our Megaproject. The necessary actions going into the war could instead go into the Temple, and switching to Megaproject support runs into issues of resource overspending and popping the True City status while we defend our new gains.
Seven is that the village will not be vulnerable at all since we make it ours. How well the population approves of our existence is going to be a big source of instability.
Probably missed one or another of something, so please enlighten me and provide citations so I can verify for myself.
[] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)
What does this mean/entail? We go south and make a big March of very angry Ymaryn, with the ability to gut the HK.
I.e No the Highlanders are obviously in the wrong. Our guys were only defending themselves when they were attacked. Justice demands that we fight back and defend ourselves. <- (All of this is in Ymaryn thought patterns based on my understanding of their traits).
First this means war. This is not really a resource sink since we are making a March. Said March can easily stand them off with our iron weapons and fortifications. It will be a tough fight but we can do it by supporting them. The problem is that it gives a very large advantage to the Thunder Horse since the HK are now split very badly on two fronts. Such an advantage to the TH is a very detrimental thing to us in the long term.
Second we introduce iron to the Lowlands on the tip of our spears. In the subsequent battles they may recover our weapons. This starts the race to reverse engineer it. The knowledge is probable to be lost when the HK very likely collapse, but there is a small chance it would not. Examples of our weapons and arms should still exist as trophies and in storage as relics in temples and other sacred places, and various places of loot storage. Whether the TH may also eventually benefit from that is very questionable but it seems... prudent... to avoid that opportunity opening to them. Highly doubtful they will still really be extant in the long enough term that it will actually be a problem.
Three the snake if they exist really wins. This action validates their behavior. It also says to the people that this sort of taking advantage of something hinky in martial relations with other polities is okay. Long term this may have !!FUN!! consequences. It also does not try to find out the true story and means some warriors may be escaping Justice.
Four it really opens the way to setting our traits onto a more martial path. While not always bad, our civ does not seem to be doing well with the Martial traits it already has. Such traits are also very hard to remove due to self reinforcing natures and the behaviors they spawn. Any changes made here, or that come from this will be long term.
Five this generally interacts positively(?) with the Clan Issue. There is little chance for instability from the wider People because we are treating these rouges as something we intended and our harmony traits will get folks behind supporting the rogues. The major issue with this is that it means we will be doing the Clan Issue during a war. This is very distracting and if we need actions during it dropping the secondary war mission may not be possible and switching to Offense or Defense has other consequences.
Six there is the matter that doing this can interact very poorly with our Megaproject. The necessary actions going into the war could instead go into the Temple, and switching to Megaproject support runs into issues of resource overspending and popping the True City status while we defend our new gains.
Seven is that the village will not be vulnerable at all since we make it ours and it is sitting in a new March. How well the population approves of our existence is going to be a source of instability, but we will have so many people there that it won't really matter.
Probably missed one or another of something, so please enlighten me and provide citations so I can verify for myself.
After these thoughts my vote is:
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
-I want to find out the true story and make sure Justice is done for the warriors and the HK if it needs to be.
-It does not abandon our warriors to a possibly gruesome death.
-I want to attempt to capture any snakes, if there are any.
-The very effective combo of sending Blackbirds + Carrion Eaters + Warriors is something we know, and due to this effectiveness the logic in choosing to send them all together should be obvious and so the chance to capture them is high in my mind.
-This option keeps iron out of the Lowlands unless we get into a fight with the HK.
-I want to attempt diplomacy with the HK, but other issues also weigh on me.
-It should defend the village from the TH as our more moral warriors wish while giving a chance to get through the situation without fighting.
-It attempts to keep an advantage out of the hands of the TH.
-It interacts neutrally with the Clan Issue in my mind and it interacts generally positively with the Megaprojects.
Justice needs to be done, and diplomacy needs to be attempted. If we end up at war with them I am assured that we tried to avoid it while fulfilling Justice and a desire for peace. Gonna push for finishing it as quickly as possible so they can focus on the TH, or worst comes wiping them out so that we can protect their people from the TH.
Wow that actually took a long time to write up, time where I wasn't too involved in the ongoing discussion. Only briefly saw AN's post about the capture option really. And I saw some things where we are putting iron up on offer to the HK? But that was it. I'll go looking for the high points later though.
@Hangwind I understand how amazing it would be to have an unanimous decision for this vote since AN would probably give us a trait upgrade for sure but mass tagging people just isn't the way to do it especially when some people like Karugus have spent paragraphs arguing for his position.
Guys, I think that for the crisis it would be best to be unanimous. I think(?) that we may actually get a bonus to our actions when we're completely united, like when we fought with the Nomads. I would like for us to have that same unity now and maybe get through this phase of the crisis intact. Therefore, I would ask that if it seems that there is no hope of your vote winning by 3PM Eastern Standard Time, you change your votes to the winning one. I realize that I'm asking a lot. All I can offer is the assurance that if you have managed to turn the vote back your way by the time limit, I will cast my vote for whoever is winning then.
Please, I'm begging. Give us the best possible chance to succeed here. If it were a normal vote, I wouldn't ask. Please, let us be united in our time of crisis.
I'll do this only because you asked politely. While I don't exactly agree with the reasoning for this vote, i would agree that appearing united in our purpose is incredibly important.
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)
This is a side effect of Quality of its Own, not a direct result. The way we can deal with it is finding safe ways to bleed off the Martial, such as through sports or by finding a way to convert it to another stat.
Hittites, from what we can tell, would actually allow their subservient states to buy and use iron plows and equipment (with a notable exception of a file for sharpening; they provided sharpening as a service.) Turns out having iron doesn't get you closer to smelting it really. However, it did give them crappy dull iron weapons from beating their plowshares into swords.
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)
Mostly this, but give the people a warning. Also, THIS STINKS, something really fishy is going on, and I think there is a snake screwing the pooch. Because this isn't the kind of cock-up that happens accidentally, this sounds like deliberate misinformation on someone's part to have this happen.
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)
Mostly this, but give the people a warning. Also, THIS STINKS, something really fishy is going on, and I think there is a snake screwing the pooch. Because this isn't the kind of cock-up that happens accidentally, this sounds like deliberate misinformation on someone's part to have this happen.
That only occurred because we had 58 straight votes asking for war so I doubt we'll get a trait from this especially since it's artificial. Besides all these factions from the Young Stallions to these primitive neoconservatives represent the minority factions within the thread that advocate for different goals but are outvoted each and every time. @Hangwind
Why is mass tagging rude anyways? Especially when you don't even do it anywhere NEAR constantly?
How else are you suppose to get a bunch of people to listen other than through sheer happenstance?
Please, I'm begging. Give us the best possible chance to succeed here. If it were a normal vote, I wouldn't ask. Please, let us be united in our time of crisis.
Why is mass tagging rude anyways? Especially when you don't even do it anywhere NEAR constantly?
How else are you suppose to get a bunch of people to listen other than through sheer happenstance?
