Paths of Civilization

pbluekan · May 27, 2017

Andres110 said:
Huh. Philosophy literally means 'love of wisdom'.

Yeah. PhD is short for Doctor of Philosophy.

Timewinders · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)

Anyone have any idea what occupationally-linked administration does?

VoidZero · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest

Either this or rainbow trail.

[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration

Test case before more widespread use of Blackbird.

[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)

Screw all those jokers, we will go out and find people like us.

notgreat · May 27, 2017

hylas240 said:
Enforce law has a chance of giving stability. It also might take us over the centralization cap and cause even more issues.

We've never actually seen what going over Centralization or Hierarchy does, though we know it's bad. However, all of our stats that have hit red have 2 points of Golden: 12 and 13. (over that causes problems) As such, going one point into golden isn't likely to make us hit danger red.

In addition it has "greater odds" to give stability.

edit: fix claim that 14 is golden, that's the red limit.

Inspirit · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
[X] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)

Going for this at the moment. Probably change it later depending on the arguements. The only one I'm certain of is building the temple in the Sacred Forest. It fits Ymaryn culture the best, I think.

ETA50M · May 27, 2017

[x] [Temple] Upper Valleyhome
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[x] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[x] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)

Abby Normal · May 27, 2017

Civ Sheet: Diff Checker

Academia Nut said:
General
Diplomacy 14 (max, overflowing) [+1]
Economy 10 [-1]

Diplo 12 (+2) [+1] -> 14 [+1]
12 +2 (diplo missions last turn) + 1 (saltern) + 1 (trails) + 3 (mine) = 14 Diplo + 5 Art overflow
Econ 12 [-1] -> 10 [-1]
12 - 1 (temple) - 1 (true city) - 1 (trails) -3 mine + 4 expand econ = 10

Academia Nut said:
Stability
Stability 0 (neutral)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Stability thankfully stayed at 0, so the city issues haven't hit stab yet...

Academia Nut said:
Organizational
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6

Centralization 2->3 as expected from trails

Academia Nut said:
Cultural
Art 14 (max, overflowing)
Mysticism 6 [-1]
Prestige 14

Art 11 -> 14
11 + 3 (mine) + 5 (art overflow) = 14 + 5 mysticism overflow
Mysticism 2 [-1] -> 6 [-1]
2 -1 (temple) -1 (Love of Wisdom) +1 study stars + 5 overflow = 6. Yay for mine

Prestige 13 -> 14
Turns out having 2 iron-fueled marches mulching nomads is very prestigious =D

Academia Nut said:
Transportation
Animal Husbandry
Gravel Roads
Spoked Wheel Vehicles

New techs! Previously "Groomed Trails" and "Plank Wheel Carts"

Academia Nut said:
[Main] Plant Forest

Is this different than "expand forests"?

Academia Nut said:
Careful assessment of the records showed that a significant chunk of the population were still farmers of some sort, it was just that the high capacity housing and workshops had run far enough out that pressure from farm land was forcing buildings to rise up and get denser in an attempt to still stay relatively close to the major centres of power within the city. More than one person had commented on the fact that if not for the water works the smell would have rapidly grown intolerable, although some suggested that the easy access to clean water had allowed people to press in tight like this.

I'm sure someone asked when we found out about their grand city, but does the DP's true city tell us for sure that they have aqueducts, or are there other ways to manage that, like having a slum system and not needing to care about order and nature and death?

Academia Nut said:
with the number one reason for vacanies opening up being because someone didn't know a new person, took something the wrong way, and then someone got stabbed

Ouch...many murders :/

Academia Nut said:
Also, those who felt that the people administering them were out of touch had a tendency to lash out, accelerating the breakdown process.

Also issues with administration still

Academia Nut said:
City clan politics
[] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
[] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration
[] [Clan] Leave things be

Valleyhome law
[] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)

I... really don't have any idea how the clan system should work, or how any of these would change things... D=

Academia Nut said:
Meanwhile out in the provinces, with the planning of the new holy site going into effect the chief of Northshore put together the resources to develop the quarry and mine to ensure that while the south would have the temple it would be made truly beautiful by the north.

Yay provinces

Academia Nut said:
the push to build new trails also found a new use for the output of the mines, which was that with iron tools breaking up rocks to coat the trails with gravel and sand - especially when it was just a useless byproduct of mining - became entirely viable. These new trails were universally seen of as superior to the old style as they got far less muddy when it rained and could take heavier traffic loads. While the old style still had use and was overall cheaper as an initial investment, everyone who traveled a gravel path found it significantly more pleasant.

Sweet!

Academia Nut said:
Choose a location for the new temple
[] [Temple] Upper Valleyhome
[] [Temple] Rainbow Trail
[] [Temple] Redshore
[] [Temple] Sacred Forest

Also not sure on the temple...i remember skimming through discussions of where to put it, but i didn't read them

Academia Nut said:
Diplomatic moves?
[] [Diplo] Send missions to the east (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse)
[] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
[] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
[] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
[] [Diplo] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ)

Hmm...I kind of want the west, just to get more info on them...sailing mission would also be nice...too many options D=

Sivantic · May 27, 2017

Tylonius said:
Vallyhome can have the Library. This is a purely religious structure, stick it in our first and greatest holy site.

Actually Rainbow Trail is our first Holy Site.

Killer_Whale said:
Expand Blackbirds costs mysticism, while enforce law gives stability.

To note, we just saw in the update that we have new trails and will be required to do more New Trails to upgrade existing trails. As is, only some of our Northern Territories have Gravel Trails.

If we take Enforce Law, we'll have no Centralization space to take such projects.

UbeOne · May 27, 2017

BungieONI said:
To all players Announcement: Mary Sue is here!

Only now?

pblur · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Redshore
[X] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
[X] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the east (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse)

hylas240 · May 27, 2017

notgreat said:
We've never actually seen what going over Centralization or Hierarchy does, though we know it's bad. However, all of our stats that have hit red have 3 points of Golden: 12, 13, and 14. As such, going one point into golden isn't likely to make us hit danger red.

In addition it has a "greater chance" to give stability.

We either get 2 centralization, or 3 as it's a main action. That's a large chance of going into the red. Also, we have no issues right now with centralization that we need to fix immediately.

What happened to us wanting to build roads last turn? If we do the enforcement, we'll have to wait for us to drop centralization again (maybe 2 times) before we can improve logistics again.

veekie · May 27, 2017

Sites:
-Valleyhome - More dedicated to politics. Unpopular choice IC
-Sacred Forest - More dedicated to spirituality. Links to Sacred Forest and Grand Canal upkeep.
-Rainbow Trail - More dedicated to spirituality. Waterfall will have Issues with erosion in the future, despite the view.
-Redshore - More dedicated to politics.

[] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive

Currently we have some laws in place to prevent vote stuffing by splintering families madly, which will be put at some risk.
Potential for corruption and likely to lead to some Stability losses.
Somewhat premature.

[] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations

Continue present state with a patch job.
Unlikely to cost stability. May boosst it if the admin roll is good.

[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration

This leads to de-facto hereditary land, but it's easy to manage.
Also encourages gerrymandering later on, as districting is a major issue.
No predicted stability loss

[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration

This leads to caste politics, very hard.
Some risk of stability loss

[] [Clan] Leave things be

"lets wait for a better time to do this"
Defers the problem for later

[] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)

Costs 2 Econ, which we can afford easily.
Helps manage crime through making it easier to investigate where the bastards went. Basically a force multiplier on police effectiveness.

[] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)

Costs 1 Econ, which we can afford easily, and 1 Mysticism, which we ALSO can currently afford, since we're at 6.
More police, less crime. Potential to spin off a full police force. Will cause Martial overflow

[] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)

Free, and boosts Stability but eats up Centralization we need to finish roading everything.

[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)

Also checking on the West. See what the hell they are up to. It's too quiet.

Dieb · May 27, 2017

More Blackbirds is a very bad idea , we'd go even more above the martial cap then we already are.

Citino · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration
[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)

Varano · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Redshore
[X] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)

pblur · May 27, 2017

I'm pretty sure disolving the clans will carry a stability hit, and I really want Golden Age soon. All we need for it is stability.

I'll go with either redshore or sacred forest. Both seem good.

veekie · May 27, 2017

Dieb said:
More Blackbirds is a very bad idea , we'd go even more above the martial cap then we already are.

Good catch, switching to Walls

Sivantic · May 27, 2017

hylas240 said:
We either get 2 centralization, or 3 as it's a main action. That's a large chance of going into the red. Also, we have no issues right now with centralization that we need to fix immediately.

What happened to us wanting to build roads last turn? If we do the enforcement, we'll have to wait for us to drop centralization again (maybe 2 times) before we can improve logistics again.

What about upgrading the trails in our Southern Territories? We also need to create Trails to our Western Wall March.

veekie said:
Costs 1 Econ, which we can afford easily, and 1 Mysticism, which we ALSO can currently afford, since we're at 6.
More police, less crime. Potential to spin off a full police force

We're already at our Martial Limit and we are already seeing warriors getting rowdy per word of AN.

tenchifew · May 27, 2017

People, we need new roads, it is said openly in the update!

Taking "enforce law" would raise centralization by two to three points, and thus preclude us to taking more new roads action if we do not want to exceed centralization cap.

This would not be good.

Academia Nut · May 27, 2017

notgreat said:
What's the difference between geographically linked and occupationally linked administration?
What's the current clan dissolution laws?
What's the current clan adoption rules?

One is where you live, one is what you do.

Generally if a clan becomes too small to warrant getting its own representation it will be folded into another clan, ideally another small one, but sometimes geographic restrictions involve folding the smaller one into a larger one and then potentially splitting them into two medium sized clans.

Currently clan adoption outside of marriage is complicated and generally doesn't cover people who are still in contact with their original clan.

Someone asked how to accelerate building the temple but it got eaten, but anyway, the only accelerant is to throw more actions at it.

Abby Normal said:
I'm sure someone asked when we found out about their grand city, but does the DP's true city tell us for sure that they have aqueducts, or are there other ways to manage that, like having a slum system and not needing to care about order and nature and death?

Having multiple layers of walls and a lack of concern for human life may also be a path to attaining True City status.

RulerOfNothing · May 27, 2017

Abby Normal said:
Mysticism 2 [-1] -> 6 [-1]
2 -1 (Love of Wisdom) + 5 overflow = 6. Yay for mine

We also got 1 Mysticism from the Study Stars our provinces did, so we should have 7 Mysticism. I think.

EDIT: just remembered that Great Temple construction actions also consume 1 Art, so we should only have 4 overflow into Mysticism and 6 Mysticism in total

VoidZero · May 27, 2017

Dieb said:
More Blackbirds is a very bad idea , we'd go even more above the martial cap then we already are.

We could somehow turn martial points into stability if the Blackbird policing test case went well.
I'm not too worried about martial going over cap as we have option to transfer our points to Marchs.

Andres · May 27, 2017

[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)

I'm hoping we can establish some sort of peace with the Hathatyn so we don't have to worry about them pulling any shit in the future.

Academia Nut · May 27, 2017

Andres110 said:
which if any of our actions do our people think would act as an accelerant to the Great Temple?

Academia Nut said:
Someone asked how to accelerate building the temple but it got eaten, but anyway, the only accelerant is to throw more actions at it.

notgreat · May 27, 2017

hylas240 said:
We either get 2 centralization, or 3 as it's a main action. That's a large chance of going into the red. Also, we have no issues right now with centralization that we need to fix immediately.

Our first Golden value of Centralization is 5. We are currently at 3. All our other stats have 2 golden numbers, so it's reasonably likely that going to 6 still leaves it at golden.
And we still have the incompetent lower-level administrators which we need to resolve, which is dealt with by raising Centralization.

Paths of Civilization

Somethin's Fucky ...

Passing Flan 布丁魔王

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

Daydreaming CPU

Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn

Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn

Passing Flan 布丁魔王