- Location
- Huezil
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] Tools (+8 Econ, +2 Martial, ???)
[X] Leave things be
[X] Offensive (+1 Stability)
[X] No (-1 Stability, +1 Legitimacy)
Alright guys. You all want to kill the nomads, I want to kill the nomads, but let's try to think about this more long term, yeah? There's nothing saying we have to completely and utterly crush them this turn. I go to a boxing gym and train side by side with amateur fighters, and I'll tell you right now that the most important parts of winning a fight are having a solid base to stand on, and patience. If you lose track of those things it's really easy to overextend yourself, and then the other guy can knock you down from there like it's nothing.
We're already starting to overextend right now, you can see it most obviously in our stability and our econ. Our people are starving and there's a chance we drop down to -4 Stability this turn, depending on what we do. So first things first let's get ourselves back on good footing.
Firstly, I don't see any need to change our current king, and him standing his ground by staying at the top will put us back to max legitimacy, which is quite nice and saves us the trouble of having to spam Proclaim Glory later down the line. It's easier to fix our stability than it is our legitimacy.
Second, famine is back, so let's nip that problem in the bud by giving our people the tools they need to build us a crazy buffer.
On the fluff side, we've just figured out how to shape cursed god metal, and the first thing we do is give our people the tools they need to go from famine to solid food stockpiles in just a few short years. Should be a good hit against the Dehabilitating Belief, make the people happy, and it goes in line with our hippie farmer roots.
Now I don't have as good of a grasp of this system's mechanics as some of the other people on this forum, but on the stats side we'll have 7 Econ with tools. If we do weapons, we'll only be at 1 Econ. Last time we left ourselves with a 1 Econ buffer was last turn, and the nomad hero duo we're facing pulled out a double crit and beat back several Main actions worth of War Missions while pushing us into negative Econ in the first place. Let's not give them a chance to do that again, because that's definitely a possibility with heroes.
If the weakened nomad forces and cornered heroes don't die from our 7 Martial this turn, we'll have 7 Econ in the bank for our provinces to dip into and make more forces with next turn. Before iron we could get 2 Martial from 1 Econ because of Honour of Elites. We haven't even seen what boost we get to Martial building actions with iron yet, but I can guarantee you we'll get a better deal on Martial if we start it as Econ and convert it.
I'm honestly happy either way on the Restore Order front, because gambling is fun.
[X] Leave things be
[X] Offensive (+1 Stability)
[X] No (-1 Stability, +1 Legitimacy)
Alright guys. You all want to kill the nomads, I want to kill the nomads, but let's try to think about this more long term, yeah? There's nothing saying we have to completely and utterly crush them this turn. I go to a boxing gym and train side by side with amateur fighters, and I'll tell you right now that the most important parts of winning a fight are having a solid base to stand on, and patience. If you lose track of those things it's really easy to overextend yourself, and then the other guy can knock you down from there like it's nothing.
We're already starting to overextend right now, you can see it most obviously in our stability and our econ. Our people are starving and there's a chance we drop down to -4 Stability this turn, depending on what we do. So first things first let's get ourselves back on good footing.
Firstly, I don't see any need to change our current king, and him standing his ground by staying at the top will put us back to max legitimacy, which is quite nice and saves us the trouble of having to spam Proclaim Glory later down the line. It's easier to fix our stability than it is our legitimacy.
Second, famine is back, so let's nip that problem in the bud by giving our people the tools they need to build us a crazy buffer.
On the fluff side, we've just figured out how to shape cursed god metal, and the first thing we do is give our people the tools they need to go from famine to solid food stockpiles in just a few short years. Should be a good hit against the Dehabilitating Belief, make the people happy, and it goes in line with our hippie farmer roots.
Now I don't have as good of a grasp of this system's mechanics as some of the other people on this forum, but on the stats side we'll have 7 Econ with tools. If we do weapons, we'll only be at 1 Econ. Last time we left ourselves with a 1 Econ buffer was last turn, and the nomad hero duo we're facing pulled out a double crit and beat back several Main actions worth of War Missions while pushing us into negative Econ in the first place. Let's not give them a chance to do that again, because that's definitely a possibility with heroes.
If the weakened nomad forces and cornered heroes don't die from our 7 Martial this turn, we'll have 7 Econ in the bank for our provinces to dip into and make more forces with next turn. Before iron we could get 2 Martial from 1 Econ because of Honour of Elites. We haven't even seen what boost we get to Martial building actions with iron yet, but I can guarantee you we'll get a better deal on Martial if we start it as Econ and convert it.
I'm honestly happy either way on the Restore Order front, because gambling is fun.
Moment, they had the same weapons as us, the same chariots, we were on our land and had defensive boni, their heroes were elsewhere, we were outnumbering them by a lot, and we still were losing 2 people for each one of theirs?
How?
Actually, I kinda want defensive.
We have no way to win a offensive fight with nomads lead by 2 (TWO!) heroes, who're retreating into the steppes.
But our masses don't like that, so...
Defensive+Martial king is kinda dumb/wasteful.
Defensive+Current king = suicide by Stab (probably some province split off to go for vengence by installing a Martial King)
So...
We have no way to win a offensive fight with nomads lead by 2 (TWO!) heroes, who're retreating into the steppes.
But our masses don't like that, so...
Defensive+Martial king is kinda dumb/wasteful.
Defensive+Current king = suicide by Stab (probably some province split off to go for vengence by installing a Martial King)
So...
- Location
- Canada
Even though it'll ruin our remaining army and martial?
EDIT: IMO
Our "army" have never fought a war before (this generation). I doubt most of our army even knows how to fight outside of sparring.
On the other hand, nomads are fresh off a "recruiting" drive by fighting all across the steppes.
Basically Green vs Veteran army.
EDIT2: BTW, you might want to @ AN that. Don't think he will likely notice the question, with so many people quoting him as evidence
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Oh yeah, and if anyone is wondering about how RO is affected by GG (assuming 10% chance of triggering):
We get an average of 1.32 stability from each [Main] RO we perform, 0.7 from each [Secondary]. However, the [Secondary] has a 22.5% of getting -1, whereas the [Main] has that at 5.6%
Here's the full numbers.
We get an average of 1.32 stability from each [Main] RO we perform, 0.7 from each [Secondary]. However, the [Secondary] has a 22.5% of getting -1, whereas the [Main] has that at 5.6%
Here's the full numbers.
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- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
I think Tools has a bit of a lead, but I want to double-check:
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] Weapons (+2 Econ, +8 Martial, ???)
[X] Restore order (Main usage)
[X] Offensive (+1 Stability)
[X] Yes (+1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, Martial focused character becomes king)
I want this problem dealt with right now, break this group of nomads and take Thier stuff to recoup our losses.
Send a heroic martial character to catch two other heroic matrial characters.
[X] Restore order (Main usage)
[X] Offensive (+1 Stability)
[X] Yes (+1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, Martial focused character becomes king)
I want this problem dealt with right now, break this group of nomads and take Thier stuff to recoup our losses.
Send a heroic martial character to catch two other heroic matrial characters.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
The martial king will only have good martial not heroic.
- Location
- Canada
Everyone don't forget our provinces can expand their economies on their own and having a point of econ is fine. Boosting our martial by 8 so it reaches 14 will help us take down one or both of the hero units and calm down the cries for blood and a new King. Offensive policy has a strong lead so don't send the last our army without giving then iron weapons as an equalizer against the superior tactics of the nomads along with their two hero units. Economy doesn't matter if the nomads can come and wreck it whenever they want. That's what I mean when I say no one would want to farm if they don't feel safe thus fueling even more riots. Also there is no North-south divide so stop we can integrate the March easily it's the South that's having riots and crying for blood not the ruined North which is shell shocked and a good chunk of them kidnapped as slaves.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
they can only do that if our policy allows them to
We're currently on an offensive policy, IIRC
- Location
- Canada
If We have low econ then our provinces automatically expand economy it's what they always done.
Policy that we can change next turn, especially if the nomads are dealt with.
But even if not, being at 10+ martial will allow us to focus on econ and still change the policy.
If, on the other hand, we send our warriors now without proper tools, everything goes pear shaped and we lose another 3 or 4 points of martial...
Well, this will not allow us to recover in peace.
Our provinces also expanded econ if they did not have the resources for the actions current policy dictated.
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Our policy: Send War mission, or spend Econ for more troops.
So... no econ expansion.
On the other hand, with tools, next round, our province will leverage that Econ for more troops, probably at a 1:3 ratio,
We can easily get +9 Martial next turn
Its called integrate province. The only reasons its gotten s far along is questionable values popping up. It was more luck than intention people did things about it. There was no appetite to do something about. Some people where actually aiming for a civil war to solve the issue. People are quite willing to push on despite the metal superstition.
My point is issues are resolved this thread in the same turn or the next or they aren't resolved intentionally. Always chasing the next shiny they are.
- Location
- Canada
Also to back up what @tenchifew is saying AN even said if we have iron weapons it'll be all but impossible for the nomads to succeed in burning us down again. So what's the point in investing in econ right now when the nomads will always come back for a second feast.
No resources needed for War mission, so they prefer that.
That was the issue a few votes ago. Making sure our province don't be idiots who send War Mission up into the steppes because we don't have enough Econ for them to expand troops.
Tactics and strategy. Welcome to being on the receiving end of Hero Units.
Econ = Martial conversion.
The main point is... can we last another turn? If yes, Econ = More Martial, while Martial = low Econ. Period.
I think we can wait another turn.
Warrior distribution
[] Defensive (-1 Stability)
[] Offensive (+1 Stability)
This is about current warrior distribution, not policy.
We are stuck with the offensive policy for now anyway.
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...This is... not the point?
The point is that, with a huge lead, we are sending our warriors to hunt down the nomads, right now, not next turn, and do not give them the weapons to do the job.
- Location
- Canada
*sigh* it isn't about staying power right now it's about calming the populace and making sure the nomads don't come around for another raid. AN even said having iron weapons will make raids impossible making it easier to invest in economy next turn! Your literally arguing with what the OP said. Iron weapons stop raids which reduce our econ. Whays the point in having large econ if the nomads come again which they will after destorying our 5 martial army.