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Paths of Civilization

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ETA50M said:
If We have low econ then our provinces automatically expand economy it's what they always done.
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they can only do that if our policy allows them to

tenchifew said:
If, on the other hand, we send our warriors now without proper tools, everything goes pear shaped and we lose another 3 or 4 points of martial...
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there should be three "if"'s there. If we send our warriors now, if they don't have the proper tools, if everything goes pear shaped.

You're seeking to change votes from tools to weapon as if it's the only choice.

We can always change from offensive to defensive, instead.

ETA50M said:
AN even said having iron weapons will make raids impossible making it easier to invest in economy next turn!
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He said it will make our pursual impossible to fail so horribly that they can turn around and raid us again, not that future raids will not occur.
 
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Academia Nut said:
A few bits, but it wasn't something the majority of their people had.
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I assume bow and javelin are standard among the nomads?

In other news, their hero dad probably got old and died. With the remaining hero doing consolidation and repopulate among the freed up steppe.

Edit: as in next turn, not this mid turn.
 
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tenchifew said:
Warrior distribution
[] Defensive (-1 Stability)
[] Offensive (+1 Stability)

This is about current warrior distribution, not policy.
We are stuck with the offensive policy for now anyway.
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Yeah, yeah, I mean the Province Policy.

I say, we keep Offensive province policy to raise troops after Tools, and raise army efficiently.

Instead of Martial, wasting 1 action to change policy, and expand economy at low efficiency.

Hunting down nomads, is not a function of weapon quality. The issue is hunting them down. If you catch them, they're dead, stone weapons or iron weapons.
If you can't catch them, no amount of iron weapons will help you exterminate them.

What you want is better chariots wheels/horseshoes.
 
Umi-san said:
they can only do that if our policy allows them to


there should be three "if"'s there. If we send our warriors now, if they don't have the proper tools, if everything goes pear shaped.

You're seeking to change votes from tools to weapon as if it's the only choice.

We can always change from offensive to defensive, instead.


He said it will make our pursual impossible to fail so horribly that they can turn around and raid us again. Please debate in good faith.
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I think it is fairly clear in my post that it is a hypothetical situation.
This said, even with a good outcome I expect to lose 1 or 2 martial.

And have you seen the tally?
I am being realistic when I say that we are sending out the warriors.
 
ETA50M said:
*sigh* it isn't about staying power right now it's about calming the populace and making sure the nomads don't come around for another raid. AN even said having iron weapons will make raids impossible making it easier to invest in economy next turn! Your literally arguing with what the OP said. Iron weapons stop raids which reduce our econ. Whays the point in having large econ if the nomads come again which they will after destorying our 5 martial army.
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AN also said that the nomad aren't coming back soon, unless we derp hard.

Tiny chance vs impossible, I don't think we need to invest.
 
tenchifew said:
I think it is fairly clear in my post that it is a hypothetical situation.
This said, even with a good outcome I expect to lose 1 or 2 martial at least.

And have you seen the tally?
I am being realistic when I say that we are sending out the warriors.
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*shrug* I have and agree that it's easier to change tools to weapons than offensive to defensive.

I simply feel that tools is a better path than weapons, and that if you're going to change to weapons you should probably also pick Yes rather than No. It reduces a chance of failure even further, and makes it more likely that we will capture and kill these heroes so that they don't just make a new army while we're trying to rebuild Econ. It also brings us up to 0 stability, so that we can spend the turn on building econ rather than building econ while burning it on stability.
 
I'm very confused by the currently winning vote.
Offensive+Tools+No King means we'll be chasing after the nomads with what few warriors remain. It'll drop our martial significantly, probably not to death but still very low. It means that we'll have plenty of econ but have basically no army, leaving us vulnerable. A lot of that econ will be pumped into fixing the army by our provinces, but that's not really any better since we might even lose the return attack and take more econ damage.

It's also losing out on lots of extra stability due to the tiny chance of death of taking RO, but that I at least understand why since any chance is too much for some people. We almost certainly need at least one of the military boosts if we're going on the offensive, and right now we're taking none...

Also since it's been a bunch of pages, here are the leading plans' end stability values.
 
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Offensive Policy will not do martial things if we can't afford War Missions or expand martial actions - they will do as many as they can, then do econ actions until they can afford more.
 
Umi-san said:
they can only do that if our policy allows them to


there should be three "if"'s there. If we send our warriors now, if they don't have the proper tools, if everything goes pear shaped.

You're seeking to change votes from tools to weapon as if it's the only choice.

We can always change from offensive to defensive, instead.


He said it will make our pursual impossible to fail so horribly that they can turn around and raid us again, not that future raids will not occur.
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The nomads have TWO HERO UNITS!!! Our army got mualed against regular fucking nomads and you think a 5 martial army will work against the strongest army we ever seen thus far will expecting our high econ not to take losses against their second massive raid which will break our society since they crushed our 5 martial army and could walk right into Valleyhome uncontested.
2xMachina said:
AN also said that the nomad aren't coming back soon, unless we derp hard.

Tiny chance vs impossible, I don't think we need to invest.
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You don't think not investing in better weapons which AN said stop raids and investing in a better economy making us more tempting to raids isn't derping hard? It is the height of hypocrisy and shirt sightedness to send our warriors out with 5 martial against two hero units and expect them to succeed while using iron for fucking farming tools we can get next turn easily with a strong army to prevent any and all raids to stop econ loss.
 
notgreat said:
I'm very confused by the currently winning vote.
Offensive+Tools+No King means we'll be chasing after the nomads with what few warriors remain. It'll drop our martial significantly, probably not to death but still very low. It means that we'll have plenty of econ but have basically no army, leaving us vulnerable. A lot of that econ will be pumped into fixing the army by our provinces, but that's not really any better since we might even lose the return attack and take more econ damage.
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I'm voting for that as being token effort for chasing after the nomads, with tools to start rebuilding the devastated provinces. New tools are also great to expand our mining operation so invest more to make more.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Offensive Policy will not do martial things if we can't afford War Missions or expand martial actions - they will do as many as they can, then do econ actions until they can afford more.
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war missions are "free"

@notgreat *exasperation*

ETA50M said:
The nomads have TWO HERO UNITS!!! Our army got mualed against regular fucking nomads and you think a 5 martial army will work against the strongest army we ever seen thus far will expecting our high econ not to take losses against their second massive raid which will break our society since they crushed our 5 martial army and could walk right into Valleyhome uncontested.
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8 martial.

Their army is dead by 2/3's.

"second massive raid"?

fearmongering
 
[X] Weapons (+2 Econ, +8 Martial, ???)
[X] Restore order (Main usage)
[X] Offensive (+1 Stability)
[X] Yes (+1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, Martial focused character becomes king)
 
Umi-san said:
war missions are "free"

@notgreat *exasperation*


8 martial.

Their army is dead by 2/3's.

"second massive raid"?

fearmongering
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The 2/3 still mauled us and it didn't have any of the hero units this time we have 5 martial against two hero units who will crush them and we won't have the time to expand our warriors. The first raid burned down Northshore and Blackriver so that's a masisve raid. The second raid with no army to protect us will walk right into Valleyhome.
 
Umi-san said:
war missions are "free"

@notgreat *exasperation*
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Once we end up at ~1-2 martial and have no econ or mysticism they'll switch to expand econ.
We'll also probably be dead from lack of martial if anyone attacks, but they'll still switch.
VoidZero said:
I'm voting for that as being token effort for chasing after the nomads
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Problem: Our people don't do token efforts. They want blood, and they'll either get it or get their Honorable Death trying.
 
VoidZero said:
I'm voting for that as being token effort for chasing after the nomads, with tools to start rebuilding the devastated provinces. New tools are also great to expand our mining operation so invest more to make more.
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Token effort?
They want blood.

They will chase the nomads to the hilt, with or without the weapons.
Only with the weapons can they win without significant losses.
 
ETA50M said:
The 2/3 still mauled us and it didn't have any of the hero units this time we have 5 martial against two hero units who will crush them and we won't have the time to expand our warriors. The first raid burned down Northshore and Blackriver so that's a masisve raid. The second raid with no army to protect us will walk right into Valleyhome.
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The 1/3 still mauled us by ignoring the main battle and raiding our undefended province of Northshore, and only Northshore, apparently.

Assuming we critfail they could attack us again, I suppose. It's unlikely that they would be able to march through 3 layers of provinces to valleyhome, however. It's more likely that they'd raid the walled cities in stonepen and ST, in the very worst case scenario.

8 martial

fearmongering
 
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2xMachina said:
And how can you not afford to send War Missions? All our army dead?

I'd rather not have them dead before we raise econ.
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So you pick offensive policy which will send our 8 martial army to the steppes where we have no defensive bonus up against two hero units and and the strongest army we seen thus far and expect them to survive?
 
Umi-san said:
The 1/3 still mauled us by ignoring the main battle and raiding our undefended provinces.

Assuming we critfail they could attack us again, I suppose. It's unlikely that they would be able to march through 3 layers of provinces to valleyhome, however. It's more likely that they'd raid the walled cities in stonepen and ST, in the very worst case scenario.

8 martial

fearmongering
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We get 3 martial at the end of the turn/beginning of next turn?
 
Umi-san said:
The 1/3 still mauled us by ignoring the main battle and raiding our undefended provinces.

Assuming we critfail they could attack us again, I suppose. It's unlikely that they would be able to march through 3 layers of provinces to valleyhome, however. It's more likely that they'd raid the walled cities in stonepen and ST, in the very worst case scenario.

8 martial

fearmongering
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This 8 martial won't be there but chasing them.
Please do not call something fearmongering that was explicitly stated as possible by AN.

This said, this not even my main concern.

My concern is that without metal weapons our warriors can be mauled by them, losing another 2 to 4 martial.
And this is not fear mongering.

Only our main army lost 5 martial this half turn, on our land, without the heroes on nomad's side and with our defensive boni.
 
Umi-san said:
The 1/3 still mauled us by ignoring the main battle and raiding our undefended provinces.

Assuming we critfail they could attack us again, I suppose. It's unlikely that they would be able to march through 3 layers of provinces to valleyhome, however. It's more likely that they'd raid the walled cities in stonepen and ST, in the very worst case scenario.

8 martial

fearmongering
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It's not fear mongering when 8 marital couldn't handle a normal army with our defensive bonus and the Stallion Tribes yet you expect the 1/3 veteran army with two heor units whi have shown to go through our walls like butter the first time they burned down the March. It's not fear mongering when they succeed twice in a row in burning down parts of our lands successfully and getting deeper each and every time.
 
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