- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
People who are healthy and can do work has value thus any trade caravan that is in undefended is to temping to not be attacked by others.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Uh, mistaken:
Okay, now, remember Black Soil production requires having enough outcastes to haul the shit and piss of fifty thousand people through the city and into the outskirts where the Black Soil pits are. This is in no small part leading to finding all kinds of justification to declare people temporary half exiles so that the influential don't need to do a turn.
With the ability to use running water to flush the ditches, we can cut the amount of trash that needs to be hauled, by having the Black Soil pits built deeper than usual, and then flush the latrine output through the drains into Black Soil cesspools, which we let the water evaporate over time, fill it in, switch the shitflow to a different pit, and then set the old pit on fire.
Get the idea? We replace work that needs hundreds of people to do dirty jobs with work that needs dozens of masons instead. This will help with the half exile exploitation problem.
If there is no demand, people will stop adding supply.
Valleyhome is built on a hilltop itself. There are higher hilltops, but it's a requirement that water will flow uphill at some point to deliver it to the city in an Inverse Siphon setup.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Blahh okay I calmed down now.
So it sorta equals it?
What they meant is that it currently takes our Saltern Megaproject five turns of +1 Diplo increments to recover that -5 Diplo cost.Nowhere in the description does it say that the salt gifted is equal to 5 in-game turns?
@Academia Nut Also, for clarification...does the Salt Gifting distribute salt to all our neighbors or do we have to choose?
So it sorta equals it?
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
the saltern produces 1 diplo per turm, the sallt gift takes 5 diplo, ergo 5 turns worth of salt
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
nah, man, AN specifically said that there was a reservoir higher up already
Academia Nut said:
- Location
- Austria
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden
Yep, proceeding according to the plan, nothing worth changing it.
We are not going to exploit knowledge of bronze, even if we get it from the contacts, without a lot of copper of our own. And there is a reason stone age civs did not last as long as metalworking ones.
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden
Yep, proceeding according to the plan, nothing worth changing it.
We are not going to exploit knowledge of bronze, even if we get it from the contacts, without a lot of copper of our own. And there is a reason stone age civs did not last as long as metalworking ones.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Plus we have the Bleeding Cliffs. They may not be a settlement option yet but that's not gonna stop our crazy Land tech train for long.
I mean how cool would it be to just skip bronze and get what would basically be a Gromril or Mithril legend going?
Just as an aside Iron was discovered before Bronze and surpassed it when we got hot enough forges. The advantage of bronze/brass over iron in the forging process is that bronze is easier to form than iron.
Edit: as I think has been brought up multiple times.
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I do agree that the whole thing about getting attacked over this is silly. What's being lost here are opportunities. Trade gives us access to time limited opportunities, which is why they're currently urgent. They're going to be too busy taking a swing at each other to take a swing at us.
Arguing that not trading puts us at risk of being attacked undermines our stance, because it produces a false and easily dismissed argument to focus around instead.
-Segmented city defense - Possibly. I think we might not quite understand WHY they do this yet. Superficially it looks like the DPs are just using this to keep their undesirables away from their priests and rulers, which will give the Ymaryn an ick response. Understanding the value of this requires extended trade contact so we get exposed to their histories...or witnessing a city being sieged seriously.
-Fortified gatehouses - Probably? Stallion Tribes should have gates at least.
-Walled fields - You're missing the point a little. Currently our wall doctrine is Build Tall. We build walls that are more than a meter tall around our settlements. We do not wall our fields beyond accidents of terracing. These low walls specifically for fields are unlikely to arise organically for us, as all land belongs to the government, so we do not tend to fence off our fields. So the innovation here is realizing that "you know, a knee high wall stops a chariot just fine right?"
So overall, theres three innovations here...once we have enough trade contact to realize what we're looking at and to copy it. Faster if we have masons in the caravan, but thats unlikely.
We gain +1 Diplomacy per turn from the Saltern. Salt Gift spends 5 Diplomacy. Therefore Salt Gift sends 100 years of Salt production. As AN had said, we just drive up with a truck full of gold bars and toss them on the lawn.Nowhere in the description does it say that the salt gifted is equal to 5 in-game turns?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Study forest has one use left we should do it already. It might give us apiculture .
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
I said "other metals". I'm not sure what goes in Bronze exactly, but having a Cooper Mine and sample of the "Eastern Cooper" will at least get us on the way of making our own.
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Dude, please. Reading comprehension:
Facts:
-Valleyhome was built on a hilltop.
-Valleyhome is not on the highest hill.
-There are irrigation networks on the hills around it that could be repurposed.
As such, any efforts to bring water to Valleyhome, would need to bring water up an elevation of at least a few dozen meters(any lower and it would not, in fact, be a hill anymore), OR create an elevated structure of a few dozen meters high, spanning a kilometer or so.
The only reason that higher hills will matter is because they provide the gravity power to fuel an Inverse Siphon flow system.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I mean, when I originally argued I was thinking you thought they built walls w/ different techniques. Since they don't, my point still stands.
We presumably already build low walls, at least for pastures or protection from the animals. So the idea would've arisen w/ any thought, but now is likely to be exported to the March.
NB we've never iirc done a secondary wall.
Maybe. Depends on if Redcoast city has alrdy spilled past its original wall & if one of the traders who went to DP city has been to RC city.
- Location
- Austria
I mean, if people have bronze, than we are falling behind on the metalworking schedule, which is, to me, way, way scarier than lost trading opportunities.
We can do a trade mission after that; or just go YOLO and Salt Gift.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We want to be careful about adopting arsenic bronze.
wikipedia said:
- Location
- United States
I might be misunderstanding here, but are you saying I was arguing that not trading would risk us being attacked? If so, that's not at all what I was saying.
I was listing the stuff our neighbors are busy with, which means us gifting salt won't make them a serious threat. Not to mention the DP's self interest in attacking a distracted enemy as well as their semi-obligation to attacking people who are picking on us.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden
Wrong way round.
We've done Study forest ONCE. Not that we have one use left.
Okay, basic problem:
An Azurite mine will never produce any advance towards bronze. Just in case people are under that misconception(I hope not). It is a mine of Copper, with Sulfates and Carbonates.
Bronze materials:
-Arsenic - Obtainable in silver ores. Coexists with some copper ores(not Azurite/Malachite). Poisonous material.
-Tin - Obtainable in completely different regions, and of significant rarity. We may not have any Tin in our territory at all.
Brass materials:
-Zinc - It doesn't breakthrough into alloys on it's own, since metallic zinc isn't obtainable yet. You pretty much get brass by accidentally mixing zinc ore in.
-Lead - Obtainable in silver ores. Results in a weaker metal than usual.
If you want to get access to either Brass or Arsenic Bronze, you're going to need to send a trade mission rather than try to climb a tech tree which we're lacking an entire branch of.
If you're doing the copper mine to enhance our New Trails, projects and Megaprojects, do go on. It's eminently practical and efficient. Just different priorities.
- Location
- Austria
@Academia Nut , what are the effects of green Stability?
Plus, well, according to wiki:
So we can well have natural arsenic copper some time later, when we dig deep enough.
At least this, yes.
Plus, well, according to wiki:
So we can well have natural arsenic copper some time later, when we dig deep enough.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well I am to concerned about bronze, and our metal working in general because advanced metal working is a requirement for CASTLES
V
lol). Among many other things which have all basically been brought up. One thing which has been brought up is that this thing in the Xoh capital is probably brass, which has a light gold color, rather than bronze which has a darker color than copper.
Thing 2. I am less concerned because we have a spot that has sedimentary iron. Inside of ten turns we can probably have most of the advances necessary to work iron, because our Dwelf Tech tree is kinda bullshit in the Earth and Life sciences.
Thing 3. To work iron you don't even have to melt it fully to work it here is a video of some iron production:
Materials science is really damn cool.