Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
Next turn we can go for the gardens for an econ boost along with the military expansion.
Academia Nut said:
No7sHere said:
On a different note @Academia Nut can you explain what the garden mega project actually is?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"What if, what if dude, what if - now follow me here - we made like, a medium sized canal, like one bigger than for a farm but smaller than for a whole region. And now, now follow me here, we used it, we used it to bring water straight to people, you hear? Instead of walking to like, the river or a well, it was just there, in the city, you know? And instead of just buildings, we had like, plants and things we couldn't, you know, water before?"

*the nomads brought some traditions with them*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
Carrnage said:
with a permanent trade route will they count as neighbours?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes.

bluefur87 said:
How would they decide what land to settle?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What's near them and looks good, with the bureaucratic nitty-gritty of getting permission and the like handled in the background.

hylas240 said:
if the local chiefs build their own holy sites when we give them a large power increase, will it cost us econ or is the cost covered?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It will be covered.

Andres110 said:
what would picking Small increase to local power do? How does it differ from a Large increase?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Small increase would change how many actions you have and alter Centralization and Hierarchy but wouldn't change government type.

Andres110 said:
will picking Small or Big increase our Hierarchy?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Both would increase it.
 
I propose we expand forests in the northern steppes, expand new trails to our redshore settlement, and either an econ action or wall our southern settlement.
 
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
JUST happened to check the thread in time for new update. Yay.

Analysis!
Diplomcy 4->6

The unauthorized Trade Mission sure cashed out good.

Economy 8->4

Project -1
Project -1
Holy Site -1
Unauthorized Trade Mission -1

Mysticism 3->1

Dangerously low now, we need more Holy Sites/Expanded Holy Sites, we lost 2 points even with a new Holy Site to pay for one. So something cost another point.

Academia Nut said:
Bynwyn felt broken and beaten down by his decisions, by the mistakes he had made as High Chief, but even as his joints hurt and his hair fell out he threw himself into the one thing he knew he could do well, his mind not succumbing to the same softness of the body but rather growing sharper with use. The fire of purpose burned within his breast and he wouldn't let simple age slow him down as he hurled everything he knew into getting this project completed. He wasn't sure he could in fact see it completed within his lifetime, although he was fairly certain that it would be mostly done except for the establishment of the final holy sites. Although, he supposed that the final test would be how well it was transmitted to the first generation of shamans after he was gone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Excellent, as hoped for, it's just the last 2 Holy Sites now.

Unfortunately, as time went on, Bynwyn knew that his mind was going from a bonfire to a white hot coal - still as intense, but greatly diminished. The things outside his focus on the project were harder to keep track of, and he knew that he was perhaps unwisely delegating things. Somewhere along the line he had been presented with a petition for one of the merchants to take a collection of privately collected luxuries and rent some of the larger boats to travel out to the far west. He honestly didn't remember doing it initially, but people definitely complained about it, and it would be something that he would have had to have approved, so he must have done so. Ah well, the situation was eventually well resolved well enough when the boats returned, their loads of dyes and dyed cloth exchanged for loads of metal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Old age comes to all men, but Bynwyn's senility fuckups are kickass.

He bloody hell sent an extra trade mission to the metalworkers in a daze, bless him. The spirits guide him even in senility!

The beads and bars of silver, gold, and a new metal called lead that was mostly notable for its remarkable softness and density were curiosities, but the knives and axes of copper were more interesting to Bynwyn.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay, they have silver and lead. So they have broken into smelting, since you get both from the same ore.

While not as sharp or able to retain what edge they had as stone, when they bent from working wood or stone one could simply stop and straighten or sharpen the tools in a remarkably short time, rather than having to hope a stone edge broke in a salvageable way or start from a new stone entirely. The trade mission had also been shown some of the woodwork of the Metal Workers, which suggested that their use of copper tools - apparently in the core territories of the actual Metal Workers rather than their trading partners copper had replaced many stool tools - allowed for different ways to shape the wood that were at best stupidly difficult to do with traditional tools. Bynwyn was also pleased by the fact that needles could be made from copper and carefully purified with flame, far superior for cleanly piercing the skin than bone or wood, and far less likely to shatter than stone implements.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And a tool up, though such needles would be incredibly precious.

Though I would admit that stone and bone makes for shitty tools, I think you have a typo in the bolded @Academia Nut

The man who had organized it all, one Twythulmyn of the trader clans, was of course hailed as a potential new heir - Bynwyn had lived a long time and the current heir was competent enough but also on the older end of acceptability while Twythulmyn was full of youth and life like Bynwyn had once been - and Bynwyn had to weigh the pros and cons. Twythulmyn was young and ambitious and would take up the mantle of High Chief early, perhaps before he was entirely ready, but then again perhaps he could undo some of the deterioration Bynwyn had inevitably allowed to set in with his increasingly narrow focus. Still, hard to say, especially with this new proposal the chiefs had brought to him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dare we hope for a trader hero? Though ambitious youth can be risky as high chief.
With all of the new holy sites being built, they were taking inventory of the old ones and were finding old records stashed away for safe keeping. Mostly just grain tallies, but the chiefs had been assessing them and had realized something: they were in many instances managing similar numbers as High Chiefs of old, but major decisions that affected them still needed to be run past the High Chief first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hierarchy limit triggered. Our chiefs are managing as much work as old high chiefs now.

News was coming up from the south of the Highland Kingdom and the Dead Priests forcing lowland villages to submit to them, the Dead Priests much more effective at it than the Highland Kingdom. Many people from the scattered remnants of the Western Confederacy who could were creeping further north, and already there were people starting to till fields at the camp where the People watched the lowlands from the badlands at the end of the cataract, not quite ready to come to the People for aid, but definitely trying to get as far away from their neighbours as possible. The Chiefs were asking for more responsibilities and necessary rights to be able to better respond to all of the problems they encountered.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sounds like they're asking for rights to decide on new settlements?

So it was that Bynwyn mustered up all the focus he could to consider the new proposals before the council. One of the more interesting ideas was to empower each of the largest settlements to have their own council like that of the High Chief, essentially making the High Chief and High High Chief... honestly, they would probably just import the term 'King' from the southerners, it seemed to fit better at this point. There would be times when everyone would meet, but the local chiefs could spend more time addressing local affairs while the King and High Council worked at the biggest projects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmm...more hierarchy is dangerous at this point, but it's a good innovation...

[] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[] Standard

YOUNG Hero leader vs regular leader...yeah, no bet. Go for it.

There has been a proposal to build more boats
[] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[] No (No change)

Economy is at 4, we can afford this if we take an Econ action this turn in addition to the Project and maybe a Holy Site.

Increase rights and responsibilities of local chiefs?
[] Maintain status quo
[] Small increase to local power (Various effects, alters action spread)
[] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)

Ooo, this is very tempting. This is one of the better Kingdom type evolutions we can get, but we're likely to push Hierarchy past the safe point if we do this unless it unlocks a Hierarchy cap raise.
Centralization may drop however.

[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)

Going for it. We need to change government anyway, and this is nearly as good as we can get for our strategy.
 
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
So, we dropped 4 econ this turn, but we have confirmation that we are basically done with the Megaproject, and all that remains are one or two holy sites.

For the choices we have available, provisionally, I'm tempted to set this up:

[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)

The econ loss is a little worrying, but having such a valuable established trade route, that is fairly immune to raiding, is ... ahem, invaluable. We don't really need the diplomacy, but the tech-sharing (not just for metal) should be extremely useful. The econ can easily be made up later.

[X] Standard

As much as I would like a hero chief, I think we just can't afford a mediocre martial chief. The events in the southeast with the Dead Priests are extremely concerning. We also don't really need the diplomacy score. Our diplomacy is currently extremely high, and will only keep rising with the decision to build more boats.

[] Small increase to local power (Various effects, alters action spread)
[] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)

AN gave us some information on this choice, and its actually a pretty difficult one. There are lots of pros and cons to both ideas.

Academia Nut said:
Pretty much the same as now, but the local chiefs have more authority to do things like settle new territory, raise troops, promote the arts, those sorts of things. The alteration of the action spread would remove the Double Main + 1 Secondary option for actions, as that extra secondary represented enough bureaucratic flexibility to have the underlings do something else while the High Chief is entirely focused on something, as they are now always doing that in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So it looks like, unless we stick with the status quo, we are losing our ability to double main. I'm ok with that. It's a useful ability, but only circumstantially, and from the narrative it looks like it provides a little too much focus sometimes. The only thing that worries me is AN's description of how the chiefs will operate. I like the independence, however, their ability to claim territory is a little squidgy. What if they claim too much? What if they don't plant forests?

So, @Academia Nut will the chiefs, when performing actions, tend towards the conservative? Can we mostly expect them to operate according to our cultural tenets? By that I mean planting forests, etc.?

EDIT: And he answered!

Academia Nut said:
Mostly, although there will inevitably be issues.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Issues, I'm cool with. This should, overall, be good for us.
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
Last edited:
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)

Well then. If the holy sites are all free, that's awesome...that way we can establish a new neighbor and get a solid chance at advancing our boat tech!

I want the hero unit because there are no real downsides to him, only upsides.

We can easily establish new trails to boost our centralization.
 
tryrar said:
Replace that expand forest with expand trails. Remember that we're still supplying our second coastal village by boat!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*sobs at how tru that is* so tru
I still think Expand Forest + Trade Mission is good tho. Expand Forest counts as an econ action probably, and Trade Mission consumes, like... art or diplo or something, correct?

tryrar said:
We're changing government type with this choice, which presumably will either reset stats or have a higher hierarchy tolerance, maybe both.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
^ Our current state gives us a +1 centralization tolerance. This will either switch it to hierarchy or - @Academia Nut plz - add a +1 hierarchy tolerance on to our centralization tolerance.

Sivantic said:
[X] Standard
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)

I'm going to stick with Standard High Chief. Going with specialized chief leaves us at risk when we need to do project outside his scope. Just like what happened with Thunder Horse/Spirit Talker mess, or the flanking action earlier than that.

Not necessary, we would already have that with the boats choice

But trade isn't something we need help on, it's military that needs to be focused on
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Trade helps everything, and we'd be focusing on military with low econ, and before we even devote ourselves to war we need to set up a patsy to fight our fight for us.

highs2lows said:
Next turn we can go for the gardens for and econ boost.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I support The Garden too.

Academia Nut said:
Yes.

What's near them and looks good, with the bureaucratic nitty-gritty of getting permission and the like handled in the background.

It will be covered.

Small increase would change how many actions you have and alter Centralization and Hierarchy but wouldn't change government type.

Both would increase it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
what are their known social traits?

Motoko said:
This guy-- He gets it. Srs, we need to do a lot of things and we should focus a minimum a few turns soon to fix and upgrade internal infanstructure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
agreed that internal infrastructure and development is optimal, so long as we also do study X actions...
 
You know with a new hero(diplomancy) I think we might be able to change our game plan. With him we could probably focus on some settlements and sending some expeditions/trade mission to our neighbors. He's practically a godsend as we can have him create positive relations with the new HK and cement our relations with the Nomads(thunder).

If we succeed with that than we can grant our selves at least some turns of breathing room. Such as increasing our number of settlements in the hills along the sea and towards the defunct ST. Hopefully with the increased amount of coast villages we can further increase our naval power/technology.

Also I will miss you Bynwyn you will always be the best hero.

Edit: also as someone brought up. All the Roads!
 
Last edited:
Early preemptive tally
Adhoc vote count started by Motoko on Apr 6, 2017 at 11:44 PM, finished with 14338 posts and 26 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Academia Nut said:
Pretty much the same as now, but the local chiefs have more authority to do things like settle new territory, raise troops, promote the arts, those sorts of things. The alteration of the action spread would remove the Double Main + 1 Secondary option for actions, as that extra secondary represented enough bureaucratic flexibility to have the underlings do something else while the High Chief is entirely focused on something, as they are now always doing that in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To clarify, this means we'd have 1 Main, 2 Secondary actions still, and could still double up on secondaries for "effectively" 2 main, 0 secondary if we want, but we'd no longer be able to do double-main, 1 secondary? And we'd effectively get the effect of (at least) one secondary action done for us each turn, as fits the needs of the people chiefs and their personal power base? Is there anything else you and/or our advisors can tell us about the likely effects of this choice?

Also, i have to ask, how unlikely was us getting two hero units/chiefs back to back...starting right after we picked up that humility trait that lowered our hero chances? (And is that luck maybe hopefully going to lead to an evolution of said trait? :p)
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top