It doesn't really matter if we go from 50 to a 100 War Carts, if the enemy can field 300 in addition to whatever regular warriors they have.

They are much better at this than us and have been doing this long enough to have a large standing army to deal with its neighbors. We need to first match their numbers before we think of giving everyone a chariot.
It doesn't really matter if we go from 1/5 to 1/3 of their regular warriors, if they can field 300 war carts in addition to whatever regular warriors they have.

Information asymmetry, though, is something that will make our smaller #'s more useful until they decide to just send all their army at us, in which case only walls are.
 
It doesn't really matter if we go from 1/5 to 1/3 of their regular warriors, if they can field 300 war carts in addition to whatever regular warriors they have.

Information asymmetry, though, is something that will make our smaller #'s more useful until they decide to just send all their army at us, in which case only walls are.
It would however be a start. Also better helps us garrison our villages than war carts would.

I'd still like more war carts to get chariots, but I see evening the odds coming first for me.
 
Please sauce for the "the only education we give people is sparring" thing. As far as I know, we teach everyone in a semi-formal way with demonstrations.
If it's true and we formally teach our entire nation how to fight, so I don't know how much help an expanded warrior class will be in regards to training. It's possible that since more people would be held to a higher level there might be improvements to our formal education, but I'm uncertain if that's true or likely to occur quickly. The main area of improvement that would result would be in 1) faster teaching methods because there's more pressure and 2) better training methods in how to handle weapons, because it's unlikely that we just hand those out to all the laypeople that are learning.

I think that we should want carts first because of the plank tech that we might get. I would 100% refuse to double main either one of these options -especially More War Carts, oddly-, because there are so many other techs that we could be doing at the same time - like the long-belayed Study Forest, and the not-yet-exhausted Survey Lands and Study Health. Going for a full-on military spree is only useful if we are all certain that we want to invade the DP afterward. Otherwise, since everyone is arguing for an econ race, doing so is unwise.
It's been relatively behind the scenes, picked up here and there. We do know there is something sort of formal, Gwyogotha got warrior training. I don't think that's ever been explained as to what it entails though, other than really early on when we first got warriors. We haven't gotten anything significant enough to get tech out of it beyond semi-hereditary specialist, and I think that was an event?

There are definitely methods that would boost training, and we know taking actions gives us a chance at boosting their tech, but yeah, we don't really know how military tech boosts would work. We've... sort of ignored them other than lucking into carts and blackbirds so most talk on it will be speculation. We will have to experiment to figure out what is there.
 
It would however be a start. Also better helps us garrison our villages than war carts would.

I'd still like more war carts to get chariots, but I see evening the odds coming first for me.
I'd rather even the odds on something that leverages the numbers more. Aka carts, because a regular body is a regular body while a cart is a regular body and a cart.
Edit: Also, we already have chariots. We just don't have plank chariots.
It's been relatively behind the scenes, picked up here and there. We do know there is something sort of formal, Gwyogotha got warrior training. I don't think that's ever been explained as to what it entails though, other than really early on when we first got warriors. We haven't gotten anything significant enough to get tech out of it beyond semi-hereditary specialist, and I think that was an event?

There are definitely methods that would boost training, and we know taking actions gives us a chance at boosting their tech, but yeah, we don't really know how military tech boosts would work. We've... sort of ignored them other than lucking into carts and blackbirds so most talk on it will be speculation. We will have to experiment to figure out what is there.
*shrug* k. Idk if there are definitely methods that would boost training cus we don't know how we train, but I'll just agree.
I still think carts are a more useful first action, tho. I want that plank. It would strengthen our warriors abs really well, and while that's not good for dynamic action it will help with providing force behind overhand strikes.
 
We're gonna be doing both anyways guys...even if there's a 1 turn difference between the 2 I doubt we'll be invaded by then.
 
*shrug* k. Idk if there are definitely methods that would boost training cus we don't know how we train, but I'll just agree.
I still think carts are a more useful first action, tho. I want that plank. It would strengthen our warriors abs really well, and while that's not good for dynamic action it will help with providing force behind overhand strikes.
I am somewhat inclined to agree for the sole reason that the nomads are more likely to attack us and more numbers won't mean as much as more carts against them.
 
I'd rather even the odds on something that leverages the numbers more.
Y'know, I find it kinda funny that, after all we've been told about what the Spirit Talkers did and how they fucked up, there are still voters who think we can somehow cheat our way into raising one stat or another without taking the actions for raising that stat.
 
Y'know, I find it kinda funny that, after all we've been told about what the Spirit Talkers did and how they fucked up, there are still voters who think we can somehow cheat our way into raising one stat or another without taking the actions for raising that stat.
...? Our martial raised because of the war carts we got from fighting the nomads. So your point is invalid. *slow claps*
 
No, there is always far better chance to find mineral resources in mountains or hills, not on plains.
Thus far our lands don't have much minerals and ther other hills may not have much as well and truthfully I don't want to give up such proven fertile lands to anyone else who might be able to hold it and wreck us. We will have the inoculation done soon meaning when it's done we have to double up on expanding our military and constant settlements. Once that's done can we start building walls and go all in on mining and shipping with the innovation bonuses from the settlements and hero units that can be derived from the larger population.
 
Ok I think we can safely say that the vote has been decided. I haven't seen a vote or even discussion on it for a couple of pages so... @Academia Nut what's the verdict?
Army discussions aside, we need to do the trade mission to the metal workers this turn or next.
Fourthed! Maybe we can finally find an ally that doesn't want to bash our dash in(be it physical or spirituallly) or are insane. I'm really not putting much stock into it. If they are friendly maybe we can try assimilating them as an equal state to form a massive trade empire... I can dream... I can dream.
 
Fourthed! Maybe we can finally find an ally that doesn't want to bash our dash in(be it physical or spirituallly) or are insane. I'm really not putting much stock into it. If they are friendly maybe we can try assimilating them as an equal state to form a massive trade empire... I can dream... I can dream.
It seems...unlikely that they will be an ally. They're definitely too far to assimilate. On the bright side, that means that they won't be close enough to try and kill us!
 
Red and gold
Bynwyn felt broken and beaten down by his decisions, by the mistakes he had made as High Chief, but even as his joints hurt and his hair fell out he threw himself into the one thing he knew he could do well, his mind not succumbing to the same softness of the body but rather growing sharper with use. The fire of purpose burned within his breast and he wouldn't let simple age slow him down as he hurled everything he knew into getting this project completed. He wasn't sure he could in fact see it completed within his lifetime, although he was fairly certain that it would be mostly done except for the establishment of the final holy sites. Although, he supposed that the final test would be how well it was transmitted to the first generation of shamans after he was gone.

Unfortunately, as time went on, Bynwyn knew that his mind was going from a bonfire to a white hot coal - still as intense, but greatly diminished. The things outside his focus on the project were harder to keep track of, and he knew that he was perhaps unwisely delegating things. Somewhere along the line he had been presented with a petition for one of the merchants to take a collection of privately collected luxuries and rent some of the larger boats to travel out to the far west. He honestly didn't remember doing it initially, but people definitely complained about it, and it would be something that he would have had to have approved, so he must have done so. Ah well, the situation was eventually well resolved well enough when the boats returned, their loads of dyes and dyed cloth exchanged for loads of metal.

The beads and bars of silver, gold, and a new metal called lead that was mostly notable for its remarkable softness and density were curiosities, but the knives and axes of copper were more interesting to Bynwyn. While not as sharp or able to retain what edge they had as stone, when they bent from working wood or stone one could simply stop and straighten or sharpen the tools in a remarkably short time, rather than having to hope a stone edge broke in a salvageable way or start from a new stone entirely. The trade mission had also been shown some of the woodwork of the Metal Workers, which suggested that their use of copper tools - apparently in the core territories of the actual Metal Workers rather than their trading partners copper had replaced many stool tools - allowed for different ways to shape the wood that were at best stupidly difficult to do with traditional tools. Bynwyn was also pleased by the fact that needles could be made from copper and carefully purified with flame, far superior for cleanly piercing the skin than bone or wood, and far less likely to shatter than stone implements.

The man who had organized it all, one Twythulmyn of the trader clans, was of course hailed as a potential new heir - Bynwyn had lived a long time and the current heir was competent enough but also on the older end of acceptability while Twythulmyn was full of youth and life like Bynwyn had once been - and Bynwyn had to weigh the pros and cons. Twythulmyn was young and ambitious and would take up the mantle of High Chief early, perhaps before he was entirely ready, but then again perhaps he could undo some of the deterioration Bynwyn had inevitably allowed to set in with his increasingly narrow focus. Still, hard to say, especially with this new proposal the chiefs had brought to him.

With all of the new holy sites being built, they were taking inventory of the old ones and were finding old records stashed away for safe keeping. Mostly just grain tallies, but the chiefs had been assessing them and had realized something: they were in many instances managing similar numbers as High Chiefs of old, but major decisions that affected them still needed to be run past the High Chief first. News was coming up from the south of the Highland Kingdom and the Dead Priests forcing lowland villages to submit to them, the Dead Priests much more effective at it than the Highland Kingdom. Many people from the scattered remnants of the Western Confederacy who could were creeping further north, and already there were people starting to till fields at the camp where the People watched the lowlands from the badlands at the end of the cataract, not quite ready to come to the People for aid, but definitely trying to get as far away from their neighbours as possible. The Chiefs were asking for more responsibilities and necessary rights to be able to better respond to all of the problems they encountered.

So it was that Bynwyn mustered up all the focus he could to consider the new proposals before the council. One of the more interesting ideas was to empower each of the largest settlements to have their own council like that of the High Chief, essentially making the High Chief and High High Chief... honestly, they would probably just import the term 'King' from the southerners, it seemed to fit better at this point. There would be times when everyone would meet, but the local chiefs could spend more time addressing local affairs while the King and High Council worked at the biggest projects.

New Heir?
[] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[] Standard

There has been a proposal to build more boats
[] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[] No (No change)

Increase rights and responsibilities of local chiefs?
[] Maintain status quo
[] Small increase to local power (Various effects, alters action spread)
[] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
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New Heir?
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)

There has been a proposal to build more boats
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)

Increase rights and responsibilities of local chiefs?
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)

Idk, I support this and feel like it's inevitable, but there *is* a risk of a governor getting too powerful. Opinions?
 
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@Academia Nut Would it be an Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elective)? How would the government work? Would the High Chief still make major decisions? Would the local chiefs have individual councils? Would the council members of each of the local chiefs answer to the corresponding member of the central council in a parallel chain of command? In what manner does this alter action spread?
 
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