So this is a long thread so I suspect it has probably been brought up before:

Hazou didn't have enough Chakra to summon Cannai, but can he counteract that by refilling Shadow Clones with Chakra and dispelling Shadow Clones during the summoning to provide him with the needed chakra?
Interesting question. The rule on Shadow Clone chakra return is that chakra above your max is lost, so the timing would need to be very precise if it were even possible. As @ProperAttorney said, mechanically all the chakra is paid at the same time, but we have shown it taking a few moments...

I think it probably doesn't work, but I'll talk to the others about it.

It probably *would* work for long-duration Earthshaping projects.
 
[X] Training Plan (Kei): Pyramid Prep

Interesting question. The rule on Shadow Clone chakra return is that chakra above your max is lost, so the timing would need to be very precise if it were even possible. As @ProperAttorney said, mechanically all the chakra is paid at the same time, but we have shown it taking a few moments...

I think it probably doesn't work, but I'll talk to the others about it.

It probably *would* work for long-duration Earthshaping projects.
Maybe make it require a stunt? Something costing maybe 50-75XP, representing the practice needed to pop clones with precise enough timing and deal with the sudden influx of chakra while still holding the ninjutsu together? Example below:

Shadow Clone Overflow
XP cost: 50
Prerequisites: Shadow Clone 30

When you spend chakra to cast a ninjutsu (including Summoning) that costs more than your chakra reserves, you may dismiss any number of your active shadow clones to provide additional chakra as you cast the technique, immediately routing the chakra you receive from the clones into the technique. You can only expend chakra you obtain this way up to 0.1*[SC AB]*[your normal reserves]. Note that since dismissing Shadow Clones is a free action, you can dismiss enough clones to fill your reserves before casting the technique, so this cap in effect only applies to chakra you're spending in excess of your normal reserves.



I don't think this would be too setting-breaking, since it's not useful unless you have Shadow Clone and chakra transfer, and that's setting-breaking in lots of other ways already. The major question would be why we haven't already been doing it, if it's possible, and that can probably be explained by us not having thought of it and not having had the status to try summoning Bosses anyway.
 
PSA: Rune destruction Declare accepted, provisionally. Also, Akatsuki and 3D sealing ruling.

You forgot to put explosives on the rune, so you cannot have Hazō retroactively have thought of it because him thinking of things you don't isn't in character.

OTOH, you can pay to have Kagome, the paranoid guy who loves explosives, retroactively think of it.


Two additional points to note: an expired rune cracks and blackens, and its chakra pathways are destroyed. As such, it does not contribute anything towards "enough research material to learn runecrafting." On the other hand, the idea of 3D sealing is already out in the world. Hazō built a 3D scale model of the Great Seal in Leaf and told every sealmaster there what it was and everything he knew about it, although that was before he knew runecrafting so 'what he knew' wasn't very useful. He also asked Ami to pass this information to Mist so that he could collaborate with their sealmasters. Akatsuki almost definitely knows that 3D sealing is possible.
 
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When you spend chakra to cast a ninjutsu (including Summoning) that costs more than your chakra reserves, you may dismiss any number of your active shadow clones to provide additional chakra as you cast the technique, immediately routing the chakra you receive from the clones into the technique. You can only expend chakra you obtain this way up to 0.1*[SC AB]*[your normal reserves]. Note that since dismissing Shadow Clones is a free action, you can dismiss enough clones to fill your reserves before casting the technique, so this cap in effect only applies to chakra you're spending in excess of your normal reserves.
The alternate flavor is that your Shadow Clones notice when you're about to cast a technique that'd take more chakra than you have, and are prepared to dispel themselves on a very precise timing. This means the additional cognitive load of tracking the timing is offloaded onto SCs, instead of the caster.
 
The alternate flavor is that your Shadow Clones notice when you're about to cast a technique that'd take more chakra than you have, and are prepared to dispel themselves on a very precise timing. This means the additional cognitive load of tracking the timing is offloaded onto SCs, instead of the caster.
Sure, but that requires your clones to be close enough to you to see that you're casting the technique. This way you could use clones anywhere; if you're ambushed while your clones are out patrolling, say.

Two additional points to note: an expired rune cracks and blackens, and its chakra pathways are destroyed. As such, it does not contribute anything towards "enough research material to learn runecrafting." On the other hand, the idea of 3D sealing is already out in the world. Hazō built a 3D scale model of the Great Seal in Leaf and told every sealmaster there what it was and everything he knew about it, although that was before he knew runecrafting so 'what he knew' wasn't very useful. He also asked Ami to pass this information to Mist so that he could collaborate with their sealmasters. Akatsuki almost definitely knows that 3D sealing is possible.
I think the concern isn't so much that the husk might let someone else learn runecrafting (which was always highly implausible), or that it might reveal that runecrafting is possible (which as you say Akatsuki likely knows), as that it might reveal specifically that runecrafting is possible and we can actually do it. Akatsuki knows we were working on it; they don't know or have any reason to believe that we succeeded, and it's them finding that out (and the attendant change in their estimation of our threat level) that people are worried about.
 
OTOH, you can pay to have Kagome, the paranoid guy who loves explosives, retroactively think of it.
Is this Kagome's FP or Hazou's?

Two additional points to note: an expired rune cracks and blackens, and its chakra pathways are destroyed. As such, it does not contribute anything towards "enough research material to learn runecrafting." On the other hand, the idea of 3D sealing is already out in the world. Hazō built a 3D scale model of the Great Seal in Leaf and told every sealmaster there what it was and everything he knew about it, although that was before he knew runecrafting so 'what he knew' wasn't very useful. He also asked Ami to pass this information to Mist so that he could collaborate with their sealmasters. Akatsuki almost definitely knows that 3D sealing is possible.
I'm really not sure this is worth an FP tbh. Like what do we gain over the counterfactual? It'll be classed as a sealing failure either way. It's not recognizable as a 3-D seal after the chakra pathways were destroyed. If Akatsuki gets the fragments or the expended blank they'll be on high alert.

What does blowing it up accomplish?
 
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Is this Kagome's FP or Hazou's?


I'm really not sure this is worth an FP tbh. Like what do we gain over the counterfacual? It'll be classed as a sealing failure either way. It's not recognizable as a 3-D seal after the chakra pathways were destroyed. If Akatsuki gets the fragments or the expended blank they'll be on high alert.

What does blowing it up accomplish?
Conceals from Akatsuki that Hazou has learned an out-of-context stealing paradigm of unfathomable power, so they continue to assume that he's a worse/slower researcher than Sasori and that he lacks the firepower to seriously attack the rift site.

Alternately, conceal from the world that this city-killer effect was a manmade rune.
 
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Conceals from Akatsuki that Hazou has learned an out-of-context stealing paradigm of unfathomable power, so they continue to assume that he's a worse/slower researcher than Sasori and that he lacks the firepower to seriously attack the rift site.
Does it? I don't think that claim is supported by evidence.

It's not obvious that the explosive does anything to reduce that chance. If the fragments of the rune fall into Akatsuki hands are they less suspicious than if they have the burned out rune? I think it's about the same.

Neither is recognizable as a an obvious 3-D seal, could just be a regular sealing failure.
 
PSA: Rune destruction Declare accepted, provisionally. Also, Akatsuki and 3D sealing ruling.

You forgot to put explosives on the rune, so you cannot have Hazō retroactively have thought of it because him thinking of things you don't isn't in character.

OTOH, you can pay to have Kagome, the paranoid guy who loves explosives, retroactively think of it.


Two additional points to note: an expired rune cracks and blackens, and its chakra pathways are destroyed. As such, it does not contribute anything towards "enough research material to learn runecrafting." On the other hand, the idea of 3D sealing is already out in the world. Hazō built a 3D scale model of the Great Seal in Leaf and told every sealmaster there what it was and everything he knew about it, although that was before he knew runecrafting so 'what he knew' wasn't very useful. He also asked Ami to pass this information to Mist so that he could collaborate with their sealmasters. Akatsuki almost definitely knows that 3D sealing is possible.
Pinging also @Velorien @Paperclipped

Is the burned out rune still recognizable as the remnants of a 3-D seal to any decent sealmaster? Does that change if exploded by an LFE?
 
It's like one FP, a resource we get a refresher on. We don't plan on doing any unique research that requires a bunch of it for the next update, so like... let's just not be cheap lol.

Easy dub, we don't often get the opportunity to unfuck problems like this, take it and run.
 
It's not recognizable as a 3-D seal after the chakra pathways were destroyed. If Akatsuki gets the fragments or the expended blank they'll be on high alert.
We only know that it isn't enough to learn from. This is a little like saying that a half-burnt quarter of an explosive seal isn't recognizable as a seal.

Would it be possible to update our sealing SOP to include 'take measures to destroy the evidence'? My suspension of disbelief is at least a little strained that we aren't always doing it as a matter of habit - it seems weird that we'd just sometimes forget when we're Goketsu 'Lists' Hazo.
 
We only know that it isn't enough to learn from. This is a little like saying that a half-burnt quarter of an explosive seal isn't recognizable as a seal.

Would it be possible to update our sealing SOP to include 'take measures to destroy the evidence'? My suspension of disbelief is at least a little strained that we aren't always doing it as a matter of habit - it seems weird that we'd just sometimes forget when we're Goketsu 'Lists' Hazo.
Is it really a Sealing SOP? Maybe we just need a Life SOP at this point
 
Is it really a Sealing SOP? Maybe we just need a Life SOP at this point
It's more of a runic research SOP than anything else but that gets pulled under the header of sealing research SOP.

I agree with what I am interpreting your sentiment to be, which is that it's a little annoying that this thing that we've previously made a big deal about (to the extent of researching a seal to enable it) is something we need to declare every single time a la trimming our fingernails, but c'est la vie.
 
ither level BoC immediately, or try to TH Earthshaping while leaving XP in storage in case we'll need to level BoC.
Paper indicated in the Discord that this is cheese and would be unlikely to fly. We won't be able to assign XP to BoC retroactively if the TH project fails. So... we should spend the XP now, either in CR, TH, or BoC. (Or combat stats and later spend the XP in one of the former three)
 
I would personally prefer buying some CR and spending the TH notes now. (Though I'm in no rush to get more substrate atm and am a little surprised it's suddenly become a big issue of discussion...)
 
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(Though I'm in no rush to get more substrate atm and am a little surprised it's suddenly become a big issue of discussion...)

The issue I think is that creating a bunch of runes en masse for the rift assault (however that happens) is likely to take a lot by some back of the envelope calcs.
 
The issue I think is that creating a bunch of runes en masse for the rift assault (however that happens) is likely to take a lot by some back of the envelope calcs.
I guess I'm just like... this was always likely to be a concern so I'm just surprised the people who want to stay maximally stocked up didn't make this an issue of discussion earlier :V
 
I feel like it's far too soon to commit to spending all our TH XP. Given the timescales here. We cannot attack the Rift in the short term and its not likely to take a huge amount of time to Tweak ES/level BoC. I think we should table this discussion until we start on Rift-Catching.
 
I feel like it's far too soon to commit to spending all our TH XP. Given the timescales here. We cannot attack the Rift in the short term and its not likely to take a huge amount of time to Tweak ES/level BoC. I think we should table this discussion until we start on Rift-Catching.
This is more how I feel.

But of the "make substrate acquisition an immediate priority" I would rather spend TH notes and hack ES than level BOC.
 
Would it be possible to update our sealing SOP to include 'take measures to destroy the evidence'? My suspension of disbelief is at least a little strained that we aren't always doing it as a matter of habit - it seems weird that we'd just sometimes forget when we're Goketsu 'Lists' Hazo.
On that note, I have a similar nitpick:
Noburi was cut off by a sudden roar that pierced the air. The team was on their feet in an instant and saw a pillar of light steadily growing from the distant woods.

"Sealing failure or runic success?" Noburi asked. "Fifty ryō, place your bets now."

"Sealing failure," Yuno said.

"Runic success," Kei said simultaneously.
Prior to this update, I'd been assuming that Hazou always briefs the team about what he's working on and what he'll be infusing on any given day, specifically in order to ensure they're forewarned about any dramatic happenings and can distinguish intended effects from failures (since, in the latter case, they may need to escape or go help). Incidentally, if Hazou followed this protocol, this would've provided Kei the opportunity to point out that activating the Storm Rune would be something everyone in the EN would hear, and therefore averted the mess.

This seems common-sensical, so I'm surprised it's not the SOP already. Maybe we should vote that in?
 
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