Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
[X] Action Plan: Baked Potatoes
You lost the mention of what exactly we're destroying - first "it" should be "the Storm Rune husk", I think?
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't usually stick my nose in but...
You have an explosive that can be set to go off anytime in the next month but it's only accurate to an hour. You want something destroyed no sooner than 24 hours from now. Why not set your timer for 28 hours?
Yes.
The problem is that he doesn't know what precisely its function is, and he won't know that unless he does the research to figure out how to make a Great Seal.
No.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As long as I was posting, I went back and checked QM QUINOA. These have been sitting for a minute:
The final one is less relevant since he now has his skill to 10, but I include it for historical interest and so that @Paperclipped 's work wasn't wasted.
The Toad Sages have not retroactively allowed infusions on the Seventh Path.
No progress. Moderate Consequences inflicted through normal means don't challenge Noburi very much these days.
Yes, the release condition is Hazou (or Kagome) telling her that Akatsuki is no longer a threat.
There would be no negative impact beyond making his mednin training take longer.
The final one is less relevant since he now has his skill to 10, but I include it for historical interest and so that @Paperclipped 's work wasn't wasted.
Because that's 3-5 hours where a ninja who was observing the weird storm might go in, examine the creepy black crystal that was shooting lightning, and disarm the explosive.
In this scenario, the explosive tag will have only served to confirm that the crystal was caused by a ninja, and that it contains important secrets they wanted to destroy.
The Pangolin is Chakra-expensive but it can smash the crystal and unsummon before a ninja can run from the perimeter to the centre.
Same for the Remote Explosive, it can be set off seconds after the lightning ends, denying any investigating ninja the chance to examine it.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Obviously this means we need to revisit our radiation explosive runes. Noburi's going to need to unstagnate somehow
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It seems unlikely to him. Most of the runes since Force Dome have felt pretty easy, and haven't contributed to unstagnation.
1628 units of substrate remain.
Yes.
Hazou could try to make a lightning-cannon version of the rune if he wanted it to be re-orientable.
Recall that the Great Seal seems to use its odd teal-ish stone as the chakra pathways instead of the substrate that Hazō is familiar with. That said, Hazō estimates it would take around a hundred thousands units of substrate.
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- Location
- USA
You're right, I've adjusted the update length and timeline downwards.
I'll do this so as to not penalize you needlessly for my mistake.
That's fine with me.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
IIRC, for RRBs, Hazou-pilot was able to, effectively, "add bells and whistles until the project became challenging."
Would be be able to vote in a project, like, say, "if the difficulty check for [rune project] comes back as [easy/medium], raise the [TN/AOE] until Hazou-pilot feels like it would be a challenging project?"
In addition to @Left-Hand Mutant 's point about the hours of time in which observing ninja could observe the crystal and disarm the tags, there's another problem with using seals for this:
Burying LFEs under the ground is probably not sufficient to destroy the rune, and we can't put them on the rune because they (and we) would be vaporized by the lightning.
I'm hoping we can unstagnate by making Remote Landmine Explosiver, then pushing other stats (power or rate of fire or number of shots) up until it gets hard enough to unstagnate us; but that might also take too long to do? The problem is "Hard" runes have no upper limit on how difficult they can be, so we can't tell the difference between "TN 70" and "TN 200" without making an infusion roll and risking failure.
- Location
- Liverpool
I guess part of it, in my mind, comes down to "do we want Hazou to go in the rift". I'm not commenting on the strategic value of it, but some of the calculus changes. For example, that he would need to stay out and be making these new sealing structures as needed, whereas with one big one he could try and go into it. Which is a huge risk, since if he gets stuck there our best chances are orochimaru rescuing us, or Kagome finishing learning earth, bones of creation, runes crafting, developing his own Rift opener, and being able to keep control of the rift.
Which still means we need to start talking about who IS going into the rift, because that is something that should be prepped in advance. And almost all our plans benefit from it not being Hazou, sadly.
[X] Interlude: Hazou Talks To The Gang About How Much Time Is Left
- Location
- United States
Odd question, but did you originally have one of my quotes in this post? I'm getting a ghost ping on it.
Then voila!
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This is more than half of what we started with. I seriously don't think we're bottlenecked. If we end up doing the Rift Assualt plan the last thing we need to to is figure out the substrate situation.
Can you get rid of buying CR 33? I'll unvote otherwise. I want to try CR 32. Has a good chance of being enough
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I suppose we could also just make the relatively easy "open the rift from both sides" seal and use that in tandem with the rune. Heck, if we have that then any two ninja could keep it inflated while Hazou merrily jaunts around the afterlife. Another thing we could do is infuse a Rift Opener while the rift is still open (I think the current rune finishes its activation once the rift reaches full extension) so that anyone could activate it for us.
And hey, if we're at that part of the game, we probably have enough time to sort out renewable substrate anyways, and then it's no big deal to make the big ones.
- Location
- Liverpool
Okay, with 1628 units of substance, big complex projects like remote explosion+ needing more substrate, but rift openers only needing 25 each time (or 5, though I do think there's value in multiple ninjas being able to breach quickly, and it being easier to see on the other side, plus the time open to time creating it trade-off). That's 65 runes at 25 each, not counting research costs, or maintaining time dilation and force dome, or if remote explodier landmines will cost more than 25, etc. Or the kicker/unsticker ones.
From what I can gather from the thread, 2ish volleys of 4-5 Artillery Runes (which I think we should call the remote explodier landmines runes, as an aside) is what we're looking at to clear out the site and likely the surrounding zones. If we estimate high for safety, that's 10 runes (250 substrate), not counting what we spend in the R&D process.
Even if we only open the rift, for example, at the smallest opener (6 hours) once ever two days for a month, which I'm making up and I don't think is the optional frequency but is likely the cheapest reasonable option, that's another 75. This doesn't include if we have to move the rift during that time because a now very-agitated Akatsuki found us or something (or, if we're in leaf, the having Hazou make and maintain iron earth and force domes continuously).
That leaves us with and 1300 units at this point, minus time dilation upkeep, research for all our projects, kicker and unsticker runes. Plus whatever maintenance we need to keep away from Akatsuki, protect leaf, and/or try to kill more of them.
That's honestly better than expected. That very well could be enough, if the Artillery Runes don't end up being, like, 125 apiece (at which point we just straight up need more substrate).
And if we get in touch with Oro, after having to listen to him rant for 5 minutes about not securing our own source, we could get more from him without investment. There's a bunch of asterisks there as well, but it is worth remembering that's a potential outcome.
So overall, I'm not as concerned about runic supply than I was, but I do think it's important to look at securing the supply eventually (especially given the amount of assumptions in here).
...If our next research project was decent, we could try and split the difference on TH? Like, don't spend all our notes XP, but maybe buy up to 20 (which would cost about 300xp), and then trying hacking a basic level 1 jutsu to be most Chakra efficient, or faster, for the veterancy. Certainly not a perfect solution. But it is worth remembering that if we do want to go the ES route, we need to start prepping for it in advance, since technique hacking and clearing barriers take time as well.
(Though doing that and getting med skills up for a Oasis rune prep or research would be rough on barriers. Okay, I'm done musing.)
From what I can gather from the thread, 2ish volleys of 4-5 Artillery Runes (which I think we should call the remote explodier landmines runes, as an aside) is what we're looking at to clear out the site and likely the surrounding zones. If we estimate high for safety, that's 10 runes (250 substrate), not counting what we spend in the R&D process.
Even if we only open the rift, for example, at the smallest opener (6 hours) once ever two days for a month, which I'm making up and I don't think is the optional frequency but is likely the cheapest reasonable option, that's another 75. This doesn't include if we have to move the rift during that time because a now very-agitated Akatsuki found us or something (or, if we're in leaf, the having Hazou make and maintain iron earth and force domes continuously).
That leaves us with and 1300 units at this point, minus time dilation upkeep, research for all our projects, kicker and unsticker runes. Plus whatever maintenance we need to keep away from Akatsuki, protect leaf, and/or try to kill more of them.
That's honestly better than expected. That very well could be enough, if the Artillery Runes don't end up being, like, 125 apiece (at which point we just straight up need more substrate).
And if we get in touch with Oro, after having to listen to him rant for 5 minutes about not securing our own source, we could get more from him without investment. There's a bunch of asterisks there as well, but it is worth remembering that's a potential outcome.
So overall, I'm not as concerned about runic supply than I was, but I do think it's important to look at securing the supply eventually (especially given the amount of assumptions in here).
...If our next research project was decent, we could try and split the difference on TH? Like, don't spend all our notes XP, but maybe buy up to 20 (which would cost about 300xp), and then trying hacking a basic level 1 jutsu to be most Chakra efficient, or faster, for the veterancy. Certainly not a perfect solution. But it is worth remembering that if we do want to go the ES route, we need to start prepping for it in advance, since technique hacking and clearing barriers take time as well.
(Though doing that and getting med skills up for a Oasis rune prep or research would be rough on barriers. Okay, I'm done musing.)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes. I had gathered a bunch of questions but forgot to delete them from the post and transfer them to QUINOA
Is that the version that Kagome proposed? If so, don't forget that it required ripping open Naruto's chakra system to make it work.
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They absolutely will be. RERs cost 125 substrate for the base model. If we want to improve them I suspect we'll end up with 625 unit behemoths
Didn't this require Naruto's chakra to rip open the Rift because it was closed? Like we needed a bunch of chakra to inject into the Rift to inflate it, keeping it open once it's open already seems much easier.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
No, before that. Kagome said that it would be really easy to open it if you could deploy a seal on both sides simultaneously, but doing it from one side would require a Jinchuuriki worth of chakra and the whole seal chain up through MS8 and whatnot. Like, with the whole aetheric tunnel stopper business, Naruto's chakra was needed so that we could shove so much chakra through the rift that it inflated slightly despite being unstoppered, whereas with seals on both ends you could just stopper the rift with the other seal.
I've always kept that filed away in the back of our head as something that could be convenient once we got the rift open through other means. (And also as a desperation option, since you could try to set it up by killing Hazou and having him use the seal from the other side. There was a scene or two once where we raised the possibility and the rest of the team categorically struck down killing one of us for such a risky plan.)
Alright problem with the Rift Assualt plan, each RER will take at least 125 units of substrate which is more than will fit into a storage seal.
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
Can Hazou preshape runic blanks and divide them into chunks that can be stored and recombined later with a drastically shortened ES time? Say 10 minutes or so.
Also did Hazou ever get access to storage seals with larger capacities? Either from the Tower Seals or Jiriaya's hoard? I'm not asking for the full dump just if there's this one specifc thing in there we need.
EDIT: This is a strange question but how much can a chakra-enhanced Hazou deadlift? If he can pick the blanks up he can shape them on the Seventh Path and Unsummon holding them.
125 pt blank - 312.5 kg (689 lbs) natty powerlifters can do this so he should be good IMO
625 pt blank - 1562.5 kg (3445 lbs) this is about 3.5x more than the strongest non-chakra enhanced (they do steroids) humans can do. It is plausible that Hazou can do this but not certain by any means.
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
Can Hazou preshape runic blanks and divide them into chunks that can be stored and recombined later with a drastically shortened ES time? Say 10 minutes or so.
Also did Hazou ever get access to storage seals with larger capacities? Either from the Tower Seals or Jiriaya's hoard? I'm not asking for the full dump just if there's this one specifc thing in there we need.
EDIT: This is a strange question but how much can a chakra-enhanced Hazou deadlift? If he can pick the blanks up he can shape them on the Seventh Path and Unsummon holding them.
125 pt blank - 312.5 kg (689 lbs) natty powerlifters can do this so he should be good IMO
625 pt blank - 1562.5 kg (3445 lbs) this is about 3.5x more than the strongest non-chakra enhanced (they do steroids) humans can do. It is plausible that Hazou can do this but not certain by any means.
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I really really do not want Pangolins being exposed to Runes. Can you cut that? If so, I'll vote.
Could also use an LFE on it, won't atomize but will make it harder for anyone to observe it.
Can we finish Banshee Lovers first? Likely they won't be done by the time Air Leadeners finish.
I want to note that besides larger openings it also gives us more time to actually be on the other side of the rift without having to worry about someone else having to keep making runes to keep our exit open.