I wonder if we can get away with just pushing our CP over the edge with ACE instead of actually going to the next AB tier. Even CR 33 and ACE 2 is enough to get an effCR of above 35 (which might be where the cutoff is if we somehow get lucky) and CR 37 is enough to get it past effCR 40.
 
Last edited:
Lightning streams out of the rune into the sky, flows outwards like a fountain, then strikes the earth all around the rune.

The lightning needs room to leave the rune from above,

There will be a continuous skybeam of lightning emerging from the rune throughout the duration

@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien

Does the effect always leave from the top of the rune even if we angle the rune differently? Could we "aim" the stream of lightning towards something, or perhaps turn it upside down?
 
"Didn't make it, huh?" Noburi asked sympathetically. "That's alright, every dog has its day. I'm sure you'll get it next time."

"Shut up," Hazō managed to get out between his panting breaths.

"Hey, don't be mad at me! I didn't know I was going to be throwing you to the dogs in this experiment! Really, I didn't have a dog in this race. In fact, I was kinda hoping you'd pull it off."

Hazō flopped to the ground and rolled onto his back, still panting.

"Hm, you seem pretty tired. Maybe I should let sleeping dogs lie?"

"Help me," Hazō said. His chakra system felt awful – empty and pulsating from its sudden, massive swing in capacity.

"Fine, fine," Noburi said, sauntering over, measuring out another tankard of water, offering it to Hazō's collapsed form. "First thing's first: how about some hair of the dog?"

On the one hand, this is hilarious in sheer investment (and predictable - this was obviously inevitable). On the other hand, THE HIVE MIND HAS BEEN CHALLENGED!
As soon as we're done with Akatsuki, Noburi must discover the internet's sheer depth of toad/water puns. (None for the barrel, even now that he has self-confidence, of course)

"Power, responsibility, et cetera," Kei replied. "I held a far lower quantity of either than you currently do, and I made far worse decisions under their weight. I have faith in your ability to navigate this, Hazō. Please, live up to it."

Wow. Given our track record, and how hard we contributed to the Pangolin situation, this is... this is very definitely faith.

I'd hug her, but we can't do that - so I suggest donating more stuffed kitties!
Discreetly. Anonymously. While in the afterlife, on a different continent than any with an active rift. After having destroyed all riftmaking notes. With a chakra-storage rune that works in the afterlife, resisting the drain, and a rift-to-the-land-of-the-living rune ready to infuse in case she dies and starts tracking us down.
Because she's family!

Hazō had set out instead to make a rune that opened rifts. He'd made it from scratch in three weeks.

YES!

Ah, leaning into runecrafting's spacetime-specialty is paying off!

The downside is... well. Either Orochimaru has succeeded in rift-manipulation beyond our wildest dreams (and can now command life and death to a degree that makes his canon self look weak, likely gaining Edo Tensei and promptly summoning Madara and every Hokage, to do... who knows what. Build a perfect forest fortress in a tesseract to start hiding horcruxes and phylacteries? He takes his immortality seriously, and he understands that it's "always an aspiration." I don't see him Quirellmorting this with a horcrux habit.

Or. Orochimaru will have failed to do that. If we've surpassed him in weaponcrafting via runes while even just equalling his knowledge of riftwarping? Or worse, exceed him?

I find it extremely unlikely that he will - given his previous interactions with Hazō - decide that Hazō is a runecrafting genius beyond compare, and fail to revisit the possibilities that are in the Iron Nerve. And he's already experimented on some other Iron Nerve wielder (I can't remember which).

He's definitely going to try finding a way to drag a Kurosawa in front of the Great Rune and see what happens. If he can't find a spare scroll, or get a response from forcing them to look at the runes he makes... he's definitely going to revisit Hazō-ssection.

It wasn't just the sheer amount of power that runes wielded. It was their… expressivity. Hazō had no better way of characterizing it. Seals were beautiful, but they were so limited – like a song played with only the octaves and fifths. Runes made so many new things possible. It wasn't just twisting the flow of time or causing effects to occur at a massive range. A rune was more than happy to reach into a rift, through the other side, create a 'stopper' to contain a chakra flow, reinforce the transshift canal (or whatever the equivalent was here – Kagome-sensei unfortunately didn't know what the failed seal had been), and fill it with chakra to inflate it.

This is a genuinely beautiful analogy.

It was a success. He'd opened a rift. All that remained was to report so that Prime and Mari could make their escape.

He dispelled himself.

Um. We learned from the lightning rune, right? Velorian? @Paperclipped? We learned from the Storm Rune - there's some kind of gunpower or controlled rift-closure-destroys-the-rune settup here, right? RIGHT?

Infuse Air-Leadening Rune:

Hazō (Earthshaping): 50 - 6 (timeladder down) + 6 (prep) + 0 = 50
Hazō (Primordial Sealing): 32 + 22 (crossover bonus from DoB-boosted Sealing) + 12 (Disciple of the Beyond) + 6 (prep) - 9 = 63
Hazō doesn't think this is going to fail so he'll let it fly for FP efficiency.

Hazō makes healthy progress. He thinks another cycle, even another no-prep cycle, should finish off this rune.

All right. Almost there on our most critical battlefield control rune!
Soon, Shikamaru will be all right with our level of planning! In his father's place. Until we rez his father, of course.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Hazo's been shown to have pretty good estimates of Rune duration once he's infused a runes(for example, knowing the duration of TRs without waiting for them to expire).

Can we spend a fate point to declare that he/a SC tunneled under the Storm Rune and set an Explosive Rune to go off at the end of the storm's 24hour duration?
I really don't want to leave an intact rune to be discovered and studied.

I wish.

Aww, thanks Kei. Not sure I share your faith though, we've made pretty bad decisions in the past.


It is so, so gratifying to watch Hazou become this great sorcerer, delving into eldritch powers not seen in a thousand years.

Agreed! I mean, I do miss the days where his taijutsu was worth something, to the extent that Righteous Facepunching Style was a sensible scouting mission, and Jonin weren't all completely unstoppable as long as we had Mari's support.

But this is more sensible, and the contrast of slow-scale sorcery and clever seal arrays + KHAOS suits in contrast to the basically-sword/element-cultivators of the rest of the setting is so, so satisfying.
 
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien
For Technique hacking, does the CR number use the actual or effective level? As in, does ACE count for helping us get more shifts of success in research?
If we're leveling Chakra anyway (right before potentially going into Chakra drain land), it may be relevant at some point soonish (ie, in the next calendar year).


Also, has anyone else thought about what it means that we can only keep the rift open for a couple days, even burning a large chunk of our substrate? Or that if we're making a bunch of remote runes, we'll go through our supply quickly. Getting BoC to 30 feels like a waste of a couple hundred XP, but I don't think we're close to being able to TH ES, and even if we were, we'd probably leave a lot of value on the table since doing it again is much harder. But we may need more substrate for these.

Also, 3 days to go, find a bunch of people, and pull them out of the rift, when we largely won't have Chakra? Or we stay in the land of the dead? VERY COOL, VERY SCARY, very PLUS ULTRA high stakes arc. That was are not remotely specced for at the moment. (Kei and Yuno, however...)
 
The diameter of the rift opening depends on the amount of substrate used:
  • 5 points of substrate: 1 meter opening, closes after 6 hours.
  • 25 points of substrate: 3 meter opening, closes after 1 day.
  • 125 points of substrate: 10 meter opening, closes after 2 days.
  • 625 points of substrate: 30 meter opening, closes after 3 days.
  • …and so on.

.... how many substrate units is the Great Seal, approximately?
 
Also, has anyone else thought about what it means that we can only keep the rift open for a couple days, even burning a large chunk of our substrate?
We'll have to make 2 runes, and let Kagome(or whoever) slowly move the second one into position and activate it when the time is right.

....we should make 4+ runes, so if we miss our 2-week extraction time, he can try again in 2 months, then in like a year.
Backup plans are important.
 
Last edited:
I think we should resolve the runic-substrate bottleneck ASAP. Either level BoC immediately, or try to TH Earthshaping while leaving XP in storage in case we'll need to level BoC. Some of our runic-assault plans work much better if we can infuse a ton of runes for them (over the course of several days while, e. g., staying hidden 10 miles above O'Uzu under a chakra-cloaking rune); ensuring they can succeed seems a higher priority than marginally increasing the probability we can summon Cannai.

Especially since we don't have to commit right now.

So I'm against raising CR at this time.

[x] Training Hazou: None
 
[x] Training Hazou: None

Seems wise until we get an idea of how much substrate we have and how much we'll need.
 
It would take 232 XP to get BoC 30. We can get TH 32 I think immediately by spending notes XP. I'd be a little surprised if that wasn't enough to get the Earthshaping tweak we want, the question is if we want to immediately hit two stagnancy barriers.

Okay, proposal: we try to do a challenging sealing project next chapter. If we get an unstagnation for that, we buy a bunch of TH with that notes XP, try to do another challenging sealing project to get another unstagnation, and then we'll just have one combat stagnation barrier to worry about for the next while, and hopefully we'll be fine until after we fight Akatsuki.
 
Last edited:
Also, has anyone else thought about what it means that we can only keep the rift open for a couple days, even burning a large chunk of our substrate?
Keep in mind that the imposing multi-hundred unit costs are the product of sharply diminishing returns: instead of spending 625 units of substrate for 3 days of rift we could simply pay the 25 unit cost 3 times. Or, even more frugally, pay the 5 unit cost whenever we want to use the rift.

The reason these larger options exist is instead apparently for the sake of a larger opening, and we need that much substrate because we have to physically construct the rune around the rift at the size we're aiming for. I don't know why we'd want a 10 meter opening when a 3 meter opening works just fine, so I don't think we lose out much by sticking to smaller versions of the rune.

(Well, we save on crafting and infusion time, but that's not our bottleneck right now. Maybe in the future with BoC 30 we'll land on a different part of the tradeoff curve.)

The concern about substrate is still valid, overall, especially if we want to do things in bulk like the RE bombardment array, but imo it's not because of the Rift Opener rune. We could afford to open it dozens of times and it'd only dent our current stockpiles.
 
I think we should resolve the runic-substrate bottleneck ASAP. Either level BoC immediately, or try to TH Earthshaping while leaving XP in storage in case we'll need to level BoC. Some of our runic-assault plans work much better if we can infuse a ton of runes for them (over the course of several days while, e. g., staying hidden 10 miles above O'Uzu under a chakra-cloaking rune); ensuring they can succeed seems a higher priority than marginally increasing the probability we can summon Cannai.

Especially since we don't have to commit right now.

So I'm against raising CR at this time.

[x] Training Hazou: None
Alright, I'm convinced.

Overall, I'm significantly more interested in raising TH than levelling BoC, as TH is way more generally useful, and unlocks Minatosealing, but I don't know if we have the Chakra budget to do two runes research tracks and TH at the same time. If push came to shove, I would (with great sadness) spend xp to level BoC rather than slow our rune research.

[x] Training Hazou: None
 
Edit: this plan and "Mari's Big Day" are now effectively identical, so I'm declaring Baked Potatoes deprecated in favour of Mari's Big Day.


[X] Action Plan: Baked Potatoes
Word count: 296
Duration: Until Remote Explosiver or Rift-Kicker is complete (Until then / 1.4 Solar)
  • Declare: Before abandoning the Storm Rune, Hazou optimized the best way to destroy the leftover crystal with Kei. Hazou's ideas:
    • Hide a LFE beneath the Storm rune
    • Detonate it with a Remote Explosive on an SCSA'd skytower
    • Leave a summon behind to destroy it.
  • Sanity-check with Kei, Snowflake, and Mari:
    • We're considering another plan: Instead of returning to Leaf, we strike O'Uzu and yoink the rift ourselves, then stay missing while we perfect necromancy.
      • Sufficiently-scaled Remote Explosivers, plus better rune-transportation, should suffice.
      • Saturation-bombing everything before they can properly react should kill even Akatsuki (unless it's Konan).
    • Pros:
      • Doesn't risk the rift falling under Orochimaru's total control. (Consider: what if Tsunade/Naruto die when facing Akatsuki?)
      • It's somewhat easier. We'd need to kill only 0-2 Akatsuki, and it doesn't paint a target on Leaf while we explore the rift.
      • We might be able to disguise it as a sealing failure (if Sasori's unwise enough to infuse at O'Uzu)
    • Cons: We'd have no Leaf S-ranker support.
    • Is this at all viable?
    • Sanity-check the below:
  • Can Noburi get Gamabunta to relay a message from Orochimaru?
    • If so, have Noburi Skywalk a (ciphered)letter to Orochimaru to the edge of snake.
  • Mari can you take a short trip to contact Syoma?
    • Spend gold/gems and find out what's been happening in the EN
    • End the update if she's late getting back
  • Tenten & Hazou hang out and collaborate to design KISS-compatible kunai
  • Research
    • No-prep research Air Leadener and Banshee Lover until Air Leadener is complete
    • DoB track 1: Ninja Radar -> Explosiver -> Remote Explosiver
      • If Explosiver is Hard, try a TN120 version. If that is Hard, end the update
    • DoB track 2: Rift-unanchoring -> Rift-kicking
    • Non-DoB track: finish Banshee Lover -> KISS -> Coloured Strobe

As always, I'm open to suggestions, and wordsmithing is appreciated.
 
Last edited:
If we don't really care about Hazou's XP throughput in the near future, we could dump all of our notes XP into the boy right now for TH and shoot up to ~30.
 
Just as an alternative that leaves Hazou, you know, more capable of participating in combat to unstagnate so that he doesn't die in the near future...

[X] Hazō Training Plan: Not Summoning Best Boi

Athletics 37 -> 39 (77 XP)
Taijutsu 37 -> 39 (154 XP)

TBD remaining
 
[X] Hazō Training Plan: Summoning Best Boi

What about raising Alt? He's currently got it at 40 which is...bad. I think Ath -> 49, Alt -> 49 and then WW -> 59 is the best order. Since you want to keep the trio roughly on par.
I feel like I'm missing something here; why is Alt 40 bad? It affects initiative, but that doesn't seem that important, certainly not compared to the option of getting a ranged multitarget attack at 50+AB and the pyramid support for Ath 50+.

Declare that Hazou either set an ELF to destroy the remains of the Storm Rune, or infused a Remote Explosive on an SCSA'd skytower so someone(Kei?) could stay behind and destroy it. (Hazopilot's choice)
Could you elaborate on the first one of these, please? How is Hazō meant to get an ELF close enough to the Storm Rune to destroy it during the time period when it was the centre of a constant pillar of lightning?

(Also, a reminder that the timer on ELF is only accurate to "a week".)

Con: surrenders control of necromancy to the Kage
Question - how do you envisage this not happening after we resurrect Jiraiya/Hiruzen/Minato, all of whom are more loyal to Leaf than to us and also are strong enough to force us into compliance? Or is it just "we can prioritize resurrecting Akane"?

No-prep research Air Leadener and Banshee Lover until Air Leadener is complete
Is this with DotB or without? (I assume with, but wanted to check.)
 
Could you elaborate on the first one of these, please? How is Hazō meant to get an ELF close enough to the Storm Rune to destroy it during the time period when it was the centre of a constant pillar of lightning?
HLaM jutsu. or have an Earth Clone do it.

(Also, a reminder that the timer on ELF is only accurate to "a week".)
Shoot, good catch.
Hmm, the ordinary "long Fuse Explosive" is better, but an hour of variance is still way to much.
Hazō completes the Long Fuse Explosive! Tentative mechanics: Once activated, this explosive tag occasionally flickers with light until a chosen time up to a month away, when it suddenly explodes. The duration is chosen at infusion time, and is only accurate to the hour mark.
Well, I guess we either blow it up with a Remote Explosive, or leave a Pangolin waiting underneath it ready to smash it then unsummon.
If pangolin, we should tell the pangolin it's a "cursed artifact" or "sealing failure" or whatever, not "a superweapon Hazou just made, and can make more of."

Question - how do you envisage this not happening after we resurrect Jiraiya/Hiruzen/Minato, all of whom are more loyal to Leaf than to us and also are strong enough to force us into compliance? Or is it just "we can prioritize resurrecting Akane"?
It gives optionality, and it leaves everyone we resurrect personally thankful and indebted to us, not to Leaf / Naruto.

We could do Ami's Pain plan if we wanted.

We could go back to leaf, resurrected Essies in tow, and keep resurrecting people, but now it's a Goketsu-controlled project and not a Tower one. We'd have to resurrect almost anyone the tower asks us to, but we can set policy for other resurrctions as we wish, and everyone, tower included, will be massively in our debt. and what are they gona do, forceably take the rift away from the nice-but-dangerous runemaster who resurected you, and is working on resurecting your friends, and turn it over to Orochimaru?

It's the diffrence between mass-resurecting civvilians or not. It's the diffrence between having to ask Naruto for permission to resurect someone we care about, or just doing it. It's the differance between the new resurrecties being awed thankful with Leaf in general, or with us specificaly. It's the political power to define Leaf, and (given Leaf's new power) eventually the world.

Is this with DotB or without? (I assume with, but wanted to check.)
I'd let Hazoupilot pick.
 
Last edited:
Well, I guess we either blow it up with a Remote Explosive, or leave a Pangolin waiting underneath it ready to smash it then unsummon.
If pangolin, we should tell the pangolin it's a "cursed artifact" or "sealing failure" or whatever, not "a superweapon Hazou just made, and can make more of."

I like the Pangolin plan. It's a big ask for Kei to tell one of her summons "sit around on the Human Path for 24 hours, then smash this thing and unsummon" and it would cost a huge chunk of our daily budget to keep a summon around that long; but it seems less risky and also less timeline-disrupting than having Kei stick around on a skytower within a mile of the site, even an SCSA-cloaked one.

It gives optionality, and it leaves everyone we resurrect personally thankful and indebted to us, not to Leaf / Naruto.

We could do Ami's Pain plan if we wanted.

We could go back to leaf, resurrected Essies in tow, and keep resurrecting people, but now it's a Goketsu-controlled project and not a Tower one. We'd have to resurrect almost anyone the tower asks us to, but we can set policy for other resurrctions as we wish, and everyone, tower included, will be massively in our debt. and what are they gona do, forceably take the rift away from the nice-but-dangerous runemaster who resurected you, and is working on resurecting your friends, and turn it over to Orochimaru?

It's the diffrence between mass-resurecting civvilians or not. It's the diffrence between having to ask Naruto for permission to resurect someone we care about, or just doing it. It's the differance between the new resurrecties being awed thankful with Leaf in general, or with us specificaly. It's the political power to define Leaf, and (given Leaf's new power) eventually the world.
This is fair. I guess if we manage to resurrect Jiraiya first, we may be able to get him on-side? I'm just not looking forward to telling e.g. Hiruzen that the reason he was resurrected by us and not Leaf is that we deliberately chose not to go back for reasons that include personal gain at the expense of Leaf.

Though speaking of which; if and when we resurrect Jiraiya, are we going to teach him PS? He already has Earth Element; but I'm not at all sure I trust him to be responsible with the power, and it would make us a lot less valuable to Leaf. (I trust him much less than I'd trust Kagome, for example.) On the other hand, since Oro already knows it …
 
I like the Pangolin plan. It's a big ask for Kei to tell one of her summons "sit around on the Human Path for 24 hours, then smash this thing and unsummon" and it would cost a huge chunk of our daily budget to keep a summon around that long; but it seems less risky and also less timeline-disrupting than having Kei stick around on a skytower within a mile of the site, even an SCSA-cloaked one.


This is fair. I guess if we manage to resurrect Jiraiya first, we may be able to get him on-side? I'm just not looking forward to telling e.g. Hiruzen that the reason he was resurrected by us and not Leaf is that we deliberately chose not to go back for reasons that include personal gain at the expense of Leaf.

Though speaking of which; if and when we resurrect Jiraiya, are we going to teach him PS? He already has Earth Element; but I'm not at all sure I trust him to be responsible with the power, and it would make us a lot less valuable to Leaf. (I trust him much less than I'd trust Kagome, for example.) On the other hand, since Oro already knows it …
It's not "reasons that include personal gain at the cost of Leaf", it's "reasons that include your student, Orochimaru, being the alternative."
 
Last edited:
Back
Top