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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Cariyaga said:
I'm not sure why we're talking banshee fuckers right now anyway when our immediate priorities will be ways to kill/defend against Akatsuki, and rift runes.
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They're a good debuff that synergize well with CATEARS/STARS... we'll probably need to ask Kagome to learn them, though. Like you said, we'll be too busy with WMDs/exotic sealtech.
 
RandomOTP said:
They're a good debuff that synergize well with CATEARS/STARS... we'll probably need to ask Kagome to learn them, though. Like you said, we'll be too busy with WMDs/exotic sealtech.
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I feel like we can ask Kagome to work on certain aspects of the WMDs, too. For instance, the seal half of our seal/rune combos.
 
Cariyaga said:
I feel like we can ask Kagome to work on certain aspects of the WMDs, too. For instance, the seal half of our seal/rune combos.
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I hope so, but I'm a little skeptical. I suspect that, much like Hazō needs medical stats to create seals that interact with biology (a Cleaning/Sterilization Seal, for example), Kagome may very well need Primoridal Sealing to make seals that interact with runes.
 
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Cariyaga said:
When the primary thing that's required is a ~unique chakra beacon effect that can be detected within a given radius, I do not think that is necessary.
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I fully expect that you would need to understand both disciplines to actually make them pair up correctly - IMO what would happen in the scenario you provided is that Hazou would then have to learn whatever the seal is to make a rune that properly pairs with it. Maybe that saves Hazou a bit of time, but I'm not sure it's actually better than just having Kagome research other stuff and Hazou doing it himself from the get-go when the time comes.
 
Admittedly I don't expect that kind of seal to take much time so I'm not sure it matters too much.
 
My preferred Kagome projects (in preference order):
- Banshee Lovers: We prepped these already, they're chuunin and he's got a lot of sound veterancy. They're basically modified Banshee Slayers that turn volume up a little bit instead of down a lot. I think he can finish these quick and it brings our team's Alertness bonus to +2AB (with the buff stunt, and if enemies are within range of chakdar, but still.)
- Fire Eater Lite: My suggested version of the Fire Eaters to make them easier/faster to research while still filling the niche we need. Basically, take Jiraiya's Fire Eaters, make the size of the array person-sized instead of zone-sized, and make the effect only last a round/instant instead of an hour. Then we wear them around our torsos and activate it with CATEARS if hit by Amaterasu (or any lingering Fire technique.) I think this should make the seal jonin-level instead of Jiraiya-level. He should be able to manage it with max prep (which he always does anyways.) If he doesn't think he can do it he can just move on to something else.
- Banshee Fuckers: They're useful, we probably want more but don't have time to research em.
 
Shrooms said:
My preferred Kagome projects (in preference order):
- Banshee Lovers: We prepped these already, they're chuunin and he's got a lot of sound veterancy. They're basically modified Banshee Slayers that turn volume up a little bit instead of down a lot. I think he can finish these quick and it brings our team's Alertness bonus to +2AB (with the buff stunt, and if enemies are within range of chakdar, but still.)
- Fire Eater Lite: My suggested version of the Fire Eaters to make them easier/faster to research while still filling the niche we need. Basically, take Jiraiya's Fire Eaters, make the size of the array person-sized instead of zone-sized, and make the effect only last a round/instant instead of an hour. Then we wear them around our torsos and activate it with CATEARS if hit by Amaterasu (or any lingering Fire technique.) I think this should make the seal jonin-level instead of Jiraiya-level. He should be able to manage it with max prep (which he always does anyways.) If he doesn't think he can do it he can just move on to something else.
- Banshee Fuckers: They're useful, we probably want more but don't have time to research em.
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I'd also like to add this to the list:
- Skywalkers that don't rely on Air Domes, such that they can be used within an Icarus Rune effect.

Getting that would allow Leaf's forces to maintain flight advantage over any Akatsuki that are grounded by the loss of skywalkers, generating a distinct comparative advantage.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I'd also like to add this to the list:
- Skywalkers that don't rely on Air Domes, such that they can be used within an Icarus Rune effect.

Getting that would allow Leaf's forces to maintain flight advantage over any Akatsuki that are grounded by the loss of skywalkers, generating a distinct comparative advantage.
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This is a good suggestion, yeah. I know we don't want to tunnel vision on a specific method but one way that comes to mind is a variant of 5SB. 5SB still functions with fewer than 5 seals active, it just becomes less invulnerable. So if Kagome could figure out a minimum-sized array that freezes sandals in place or something with chakra adhesion, it could work about the same way as normal skywalkers (IE, doesn't need additional training.)
 
DanZapman said:
Can you elaborate a little? Some disagreement ensued about whether you meant that yes, a finished seal would be tested and create notable noise at the end of the research process, or that yes, various prototypes would create notable noise at uncertain points during the research process.
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A finished seal will be tested and create notable noise at the end of the research process. Various prototypes will create various degrees of noise when tested after infusion, but it's possible to prioritise your research so that you work on volume last, and the earlier prototypes are less likely to alert the entire country to your location.

Sir Stompy said:
This wasn't the case for explosive runes. Hazou was confident he'd completed research without ever activating the rune. So is this a rules difference between runes and seals?
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Completed research means you have a stable prototype you can infuse with zero risk of sealing failures under ordinary circumstances. It is possible to complete research but not know for certain what your seal will do. Maybe you misplaced a decimal point somewhere a few weeks back and now your AoE is one Zone larger and you will kill yourself if you use it without testing it first. Maybe your Superchiller cools the air to X temperature exactly as intended, but it turns out that the winter air is already really cold where you are, so it reaches the target temperature faster than you expected and you can't get clear in time. Maybe your bioseal allows you to projectile vomit snakes just like you wanted, but it turns out that projectile vomiting feels horrible and gives you a -2*AB nausea penalty that has nothing to do with the seal itself.

In the case of the explosive runes, Hazō could confirm that he had successfully created an explosive rune. He could not be confident that it would follow his intended specifications exactly, but he was under time pressure and very familiar with explosives testing and the primary failure modes to avoid (don't get blown up), so he was prepared to do the first-time demonstration with a scaled-up version of the standard precautions. Also, he was going out on a limb because he had promised Tsunade that he could do it.
 
Velorien said:
Maybe your bioseal allows you to projectile vomit snakes just like you wanted, but it turns out that projectile vomiting feels horrible and gives you a -2*AB nausea penalty that has nothing to do with the seal itself.
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[X] Interlude: Orochimaru tests bioseals for projectile vomitting snakes

It seems like a very pointed comment, you know.
 
Shrooms said:
This is a good suggestion, yeah. I know we don't want to tunnel vision on a specific method but one way that comes to mind is a variant of 5SB. 5SB still functions with fewer than 5 seals active, it just becomes less invulnerable. So if Kagome could figure out a minimum-sized array that freezes sandals in place or something with chakra adhesion, it could work about the same way as normal skywalkers (IE, doesn't need additional training.)
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OK, here's an idea: find some kind of single-seal barrier and pair it with CATEARS. It seems so much easier to solve the freeze-in-air and the chakra-adhesion-activation effects in two separate seals.

Velorien said:
They have. Don't ask me to remember which ones, though. If you ever go through the board game-featuring chapters, you'll probably see some comments afterwards if you care to search.
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Thanks.
 
MarsIronPI said:
OK, here's an idea: find some kind of single-seal barrier and pair it with CATEARS. It seems so much easier to solve the freeze-in-air and the chakra-adhesion-activation effects in two separate seals.
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This is really unworkable. For one thing the ARS line has inconsistent delay. You wouldn't want to rely on this for instant switching while running. For another, the ARS line is not reusable so you would run out of uses one step off the ground. Finally, this, uh, has already been solved. It's what skywalkers are... and they're only chuunin level.
 
Velorien said:
Completed research means you have a stable prototype you can infuse with zero risk of sealing failures under ordinary circumstances. It is possible to complete research but not know for certain what your seal will do. Maybe you misplaced a decimal point somewhere a few weeks back and now your AoE is one Zone larger and you will kill yourself if you use it without testing it first. Maybe your Superchiller cools the air to X temperature exactly as intended, but it turns out that the winter air is already really cold where you are, so it reaches the target temperature faster than you expected and you can't get clear in time. Maybe your bioseal allows you to projectile vomit snakes just like you wanted, but it turns out that projectile vomiting feels horrible and gives you a -2*AB nausea penalty that has nothing to do with the seal itself.
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Thanks again for answering so quickly, pinging also @eaglejarl @Paperclipped since I continue to have additional questions.
  • Does this apply to both seals and runes?
  • Does this mean that the concerns of the Superchiller Rune causing a runic failure by getting destroyed by the hypertornado don't make sense? The intended use for that rune is to cause an EM nuke effect. So it getting accidentally destroyed by the effect it creates would be a failure under "ordinary" circumstances (for that rune).
  • If you're working from research notes (as we would be for Banshee Fuckers) you already know the final specs for the seal, so am I correct to think that it wouldn't be necessary to test the final seal this way if you're working from another sealmaster's research notes?
  • As a follow up, do seals researched from sealmaster's notes significantly differ between sealmasters? Or is there basically a "stable" design and each sealmaster has to figure out how to express it in their "language".
Velorien said:
A finished seal will be tested and create notable noise at the end of the research process. Various prototypes will create various degrees of noise when tested after infusion, but it's possible to prioritise your research so that you work on volume last, and the earlier prototypes are less likely to alert the entire country to your location.
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  • Does Hazou think this is something they can manage by testing the seals in a bunker underground? Presumably the infusing SM would be equipped with Banshee Slayers.
  • Do the prototypes cause minor sealing failures when they are tested? As part of the research process I mean. We've seen runes do this with the time-stopped bugs, and the strange time tides while researching TR125. Do seals do the same thing and it just doesn't rise to the level of the narrative?
  • Do prototype seals usually burn out? What happens to the prototype seals after they're activated? We've seen the runes shatter and become unusable as substrate.
EDIT: Found some quotes from EJ about the concept of "minor failures"
eaglejarl said:
My presumption is that there are plenty of failures happening in the background and we only show the ones that matter. In future I'll remember to show some of the minor/safe ones.
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eaglejarl said:
Yes, this is precisely my headcanon. There has not been specific discussion among the QMs but I'm confident that @Velorien and @Paperclipped will either agree with this, or at least will not care if I write it like this when it's my update.
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Since prototype seals have been stated to be doing this, are they also acting like incomplete versions of the final seal? I suggest reconciling the concept of minor failures and prototype seals like the following:
  1. The prototype seal works like an incomplete version of the final seal for a short time, however since it is unstable it eventually...
  2. ..burns out, and in the process causes a minor sealing failure, could be anything at all, but is not dangerous to a careful sealmaster.
 
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