Hazo received orders to research weapons to kill Akatsuki and did so. Given the terms Itachi laid down were:
If you believe that both Itachi and Hazo would not consider researching weapons to kill Akatsuki to be interference or that Hazo could hide this from Itachi, then okay, language is subjective and all, but the terms Itachi used do not give me the impression that he draws a meaningful distinction between "planned to interfere and intended to act on it" and "actually took physical action to interfere".
Separately, I think that there's some level of distinction here also with, like -- so, it seems pretty reasonable to do preparations against someone killing you, right?
And if you look at the things we've actually researched here, it's been -- temporal shenanigans, large scale defenses, a blinding rune, basic explosive runes (which we had before), small scale weapons (Force Claws, RRB). We haven't done anything specifically targetted against Akatsuki yet, so we can say that honestly.
In response to @Sir Stompy , we didn't break the agreement? If Oro's doing Dimensionalism research that's not our problem? We gave up the notes because we were ordered explicitly by our Hokage. Also giving someone a book is not really "taking direct action against our interests". It's a bunch of notes that we gave to scary snake man because Orange Man might hurt us
Sorry, but... At this point, I don't understand what you're thinking.
First, if we're being technical about it, as you are, no such deal took place. Hazou never acquiesced to anything, didn't so much as nod in agreement with Itachi's demands.
Second, if we were interpret the Hazou/Itachi interaction and Hazou's mere lack of objections to Itachi's demands as Hazou implicitly acquiescing to them, we cannot interpret this deal as only covering a ban on dimensionalism. If it was a deal, it included the following terms:
Does deliberately working on weapons to kill the Akatsuki as part of a Leaf state project to wipe them out and deny them access to the Rift not count as "interfering with Nagato's rescue"? I would say it very much does.
Third, even if we were to grant that Itachi would not view it as interference, because we were merely planning to interfere without yet having actually taken any visible-to-the-Akatsuki steps to interfere (which is an incredibly convoluted interpretation, but fine) – even if we interpret the "deal" in this way, we've still violated it! We shared the information on the rift with the Hokage, which turned it into a Leaf state project; we've not objected to this state project, we've enthusiastically contributed to it, we've filled Orochimaru in on it, and we've shared our dimensionalism research with him, which led to him working on dimensionalism as part of the aforementioned Leaf state project!
Which, if we were to interpret the exchange in which Itachi poses ultimatums to a taciturn Hazou as an official Leaf/Rain agreement (as Itachi claimed to do), unambiguously led to Leaf violating it.
Which, if we were to interpret "don't interfere with our plans" as "don't personally take any practical steps to interfere", unambiguously involved us violating it, since Orochimaru is now aware of the rift, shares our research, and is predictably going to interfere with them even if we don't. We've knowingly set events into motion that are going to present serious obstacles to them, and which we can no longer abort.
You seem to be living in a world in which, simultaneously, (1) the agreement between Itachi and Hazou exists, but (2) this agreement only covers the dimensionalism ban and omits the interference ban, while simultaneously (3) Leaf is exempt from this agreement such that Orochimaru working on dimensionalism as part of Leaf's state project doesn't count as a violation, and (4) the "Hazou mustn't interfere" clause, inasmuch as it exists, only covers "practical"/physical steps to interfere and not theoretical work done with the aim to interfere, yet (5) the concrete steps we took in sharing our research with Orochimaru and encouraging Naruto to oppose them somehow don't count.
I do not see any way in which this is a reasonable way to interpret things.
I can see the interpretation in which no agreement exists and Itachi is full of shit just wielding the realpolitiks cudgel to get his way with the thinnest legal justifications possible (in which case he's going to be pissed and kill us, then bullshit up some more legalese to justify it).
I can charitably see the interpretation in which the agreement exists, and it only covers Hazou not working on dimensionalism and not acting to interfere with the Akatsuki (in which case we've violated it and he's going to kill us).
I can tenuously see the interpretation in which the agreement exists, and it primarily covers Leaf not working on dimensionalism, with Hazou having acted as Leaf's representative in his interaction with Itachi (in which case Leaf has violated it and is going to be Deidara'd).
I can very tenuously see the interpretation in which the agreement exists, and it only covers Hazou not working on dimensionalism and not taking concrete steps to interfere with the Akatsuki (in which case we've violated it by sharing stuff with Oro and Naruto, so he's going to kill us).
Your interpretation seems to be that the agreement exists, is strictly technical and official, only covers Hazou personally working on dimensionalism or having personally taken direct actions to physically impede the Akatsuki, and doesn't cover Leaf working on dimensionalism or Hazou assisting anyone else in working on dimensionalism or in interfering with the Akatsuki's plans.
Balance Changes/Things I Will Do Differently Than EJ
Tentatively ruling that you can't use two Reflexive Supplemental ninjutsu simultaneously when you're attacked (so no double Strength of the Pack) as people in general cannot multithread complex chakra manipulations. You can still use a RefSup ninjutsu and a different RefSup (like activating CATEARS).
The leopards kind of got embarrassed last time by their clan's +AB (relative to the dogs' +3*AB), so I'm ticking up their racial perk to +2*AB on physical skills and +AB on Alertness.
[NB: I am realizing after the fact that I did not actually incorporate the +AB to initiative that the Leopards had. Tragically, this would likely have mattered. Ah well.]
I realize this is not how I would rule it if these guys were player-side – I'd probably find a more nuanced way to represent their individual strength. Alas, I do not have TR200, so I will accept that this is imperfect and move on.
This is an innate bonus, so it doesn't count towards Leopard buffcaps, if there are any leopards with buffs.
[NB: I am also realizing that I forgot to make any buff for the Leopards, even the tiniest +AB for the Leopard jōnin. Tragically, this probably should have happened and would definitely have mattered. Alas.]
To balance this perk out a little, Strength of the Pack is being buffed slightly:
I'm having it affect ninjutsu so Canzappu, Canfuwumpu, and Canhachi don't feel left out. It'll only be 1x taggable there though.
Instead of requiring that every dog be in the same Zone, the ninjutsu continues to function as long as every dog is within a Zone of every other. That way, some amount of tactical movement is possible, but the Dogs still need to stay close together.
The dogs would have bought up to 6 FP before going on the combat mission (have I mentioned that I dislike FP-buying?), and probably should have spent some on the last fight, so I'm setting their FP at 6 - 1d4 + 1 (+1 is for winning the combat, +2 for Canrippu who took a Mild):
Cancurunchu 3 FP
Canzappu 3 FP
Cankamu 4 FP
Canfuwumpu 5 FP
Canchō 3 FP
Canhachi 4 FP
Canrippu 7 FP
Cansaku 5 FP
Random leopards aren't passively sitting around at 6 FP because they don't expect a fight. Instead, they're at 1 + 1d4 FP each.
For simplicity's sake, all the summon combatants have two combat-usable Aspects. Probably this should scale and the genin-ish combatants should have around one and the jōnin-ish around three, but whatever.
Weapons ratings: The dogs are rocking Weapons:1 on their close-combat attacks, the leopards get Weapons:2.
Tactics:
The dogs will work together tactically and try to take down the strongest enemies first, when possible.
They'll flee once they take a Moderate, since they don't want to weigh down the pack, or if the pack is fleeing.
The leopards will not work together tactically. They'll try to take out the weakest enemies first, and will avoid attacking in melee if another leopard is already engaged.
They'll flee once they take a Mild – they're in it for their own skin.
[NB: I realize this didn't happen in the combat – this is because the leopards were defending the cubs, who they were the parents/aunts/uncles/grandparents of.]
I've been inconsistent in the past about whether summons get chakra boost or not – tentatively, I'm saying that they do.
I dislike ninjutsu that directly targets secondary stats for balance reasons. Ninjutsu that previously targeted Resolve will now target Resolve + ⅓ CR instead.
Pre-Combat Prep
The team retreats to Dog, rests for 8 hours on a skytower, and gets back into Leopard.
Hazō and the dogs have a few options – they can run into another hunting group, they can run into a non-hunting group, they can find a camp, they can find a trail (which they can follow forwards into a group or backwards to camp), or a hunting group can find their trail and ambush them.
1-6: ambushed by leopards
7-9: find hunting group
10-12: find non-hunting group
13-18: run into a camp
19-30: find trail (and follow to a camp)
31-100: find nothing this hour, reroll (this entry here to determine how much chakra is regenerated over time)
Gut check – this feels right. The chance of finding a camp would be higher if Hazō could use skywalkers + telescopes, but the dogs don't want to risk it. Rolling it out:
Nd100: 27 aaaand we're done, that was quick!
20 minutes after coming back into Leopard, Canhachi sniffs out a trail, which the dogs can then follow to its source. They want to do the "tunnel under, buff up, break through and fight" strat, but need to localize it first – they don't know how far the camp is down the trail, and they can't follow the trail while tunneling.
The camp has 3d10 (2, 4, 10) = 16 leopards, of whom 3d4 (1, 1, 3) = 5 are cubs. Of the remaining 11 adults, 2d4 (2, 3) = 5 are out and about (in small groups, maybe solo), 1d4 (4) are sleeping, leaving 2 awake and keeping watch over the cubs. All adult leopards are combat capable, but some are weaker (think: 20s/30s in their combat stats; just enough to hunt prey by), while others are strong. The two awake ones are equivalent to (2d100 [1-40: genin, 41-90: chūnin, 91-100 jōnin; though these ranges aren't accurate to Human Path demographics]: 65, 97; wow!) a chūnin and a fairly strong jōnin.
Cancurunchu and Canchō are the most confident in their stealth skills. They'll try to sneak forward to pin down the camp location without the leopards noticing. Ordinarily, sneaking up to the camp and back would take 10 minutes. They won't time-ladder it, since they don't want to leave the team alone for so long close to a leopard encampment – a large hunting group coming home could stumble across them at any moment.
The Leopard Jōnin, now named Hyōhisan, sees a pair of dogs trying to sneak up on her. Hyōhisan is a 1d6 (1-3: CQC, 4-5: 'normal' ninjutsu, 6: esoteric ninjutsu): 2 = CQC specialist, but she also has passable ninjutsu skills, of course. She will (1d4):
1: Play it cool until the dogs get closer, then eat their faces once they're in face-eating range.
2: Turn the hunt around on the dogs, and stalk them back.
3: Throw a ninjutsu at the dogs to scare them off – she's not in the mood for a hunt right now.
4: Do the smart thing and wake the camp.
1d4: 2
As Cancurunchu notices the camp and turns back to the pack, Hyōhisan takes note of her new prey. Once his back is fully turned, the leopard rouses herself, telling her junior to mind the cubs for a moment before slipping off into the shadows.
The dogs are going slow so as to not disturb the leopards – so Hyōhisan has plenty of time to line up an attack. She'll target the weaker-looking one on pure leopard instinct. Canchō will use Strength of the Pack immediately at Effect:4, spreading 2 tags to Cancurunchu and keeping 2 tags for himself.
Cancurunchu immediately realizes that this leopard is going to be trouble, and races out to rejoin the pack. While they're far enough away not to interrupt the stealth mission, they're not actually that far away in terms of Zones, so he gets there in a single Standard, then saves his Supplementals for defensive Strength of the Packs (so he can allocate the tags to whoever needs it).
[NB: I realize I forgot to actually use my ambush rules here – normally, I would have started initiative immediately after the ambushing attack, immediately giving Hyōhisan another turn with which to attack a Cancurunchu since her Alertness is higher than his. While no longer Flat-Footed, Cancurunchu wouldn't have Strength of the Pack available, and thus would have been pretty screwed. Instead, I treated the ambushing attack as Hyōhisan's turn (even though initiative shouldn't have started yet), and let Cancurunchu go right away. Oops.]
Hyōhisan follows with her Standard, and realizes that she's walking face-first into a miniature warparty. She'll immediately about-face and dash back with her Supplementals, probably taking her out of range of most of the party, but Canzappu can take a potshot with Focus Blast (Effect:3):
At this point, the dogs need to decide – do they press forward, or do they try to run? As established, Cancurunchu gets a bit battle-heated, and decides to press forward. Everyone gets their buffs up before the fight starts, so this is going to be a pure slugfest.
Meanwhile, Hyōhisan is waking the leopard camp. The four adult leopards that were sleeping were roughly (17, 32, 14, 45): two weaker genin, a stronger genin, and a weak chūnin (in terms of base stats; these Leopards are stronger than their human equivalents). Hazō takes two Standards to cast his techniques before the dog raiders start to run in, so the leopards are all woken and buffed up.
Hazō decides it's best to activate the MARS chain now rather than risk waiting for his low initiative, but they're too far from the combat to use a Banshee Fucker effectively – instead, he'll throw Banshees ahead of him as they run to keep the sound-denial up, and keep everyone silenced by Banshee Slayers. He also has his RRBs active, and everyone has their Force Claws (or Force Jaws, as the case may be) active.
Map
Grabbing a battlemap off the internet:
Zone 1: Clifftop. Border:2 to get here. High Ground. Forested.
Zone 2: The Den. The cubs are hiding in a crack in the wall.
Hyōkutsū
Hyōkirai
Hyōsonae
Hyōuppun
Zone 3: Low Ridge. Big Boulders. Patchy Forest. High Ground to 4.
Hyōgekido
Zone 4: Watering Hole. Low Ground – Border:1 to get up to 3 or 5.
Cancurunchu
Cankamu
Canrippu
Cansaku
Zone 5: High Ridge. Cliff Wall. Patchy Forest. High Ground to 4.
Hyōhisan
Zone 6: Lowland. Dead Trees. Border:1 to get to 7.
Zone 7: Entry of the Dogs.
Canzappu
Canfuwumpu
Canhachi
Hazō
Hyōhisan and Hyōgekido are hiding, trying to catch the dogs unaware with a flank:
Hyōhisan (Stealth): ?? + ?? (Shadow Blend) + ? = ??
Hyōgekido (Stealth): ?? + ?? + ? = ??
Cancurunchu (Alertness): 61 + 3 = 64
[not rolling the rest of the dogs as they have no shot of noticing Hyōhisan]
Cancurunchu notices Hyōgekido and calls him out as they enter Zone 4, starting the battle. Hyōhisan is hidden.
[NB: all Leopard dice were replaced with + ?, even the negative rolls they had.]
Round 1
Initiative:
?? Hyōhisan
63 Cancurunchu
57 Canzappu
49 Cankamu
?? Hyōkutsū
46 Cansaku
46 Canrippu
?? Hyōgekido
41 Canhachi
40 Canfuwumpu
38 Hazō (no chakdar benefit, as everyone is already boosting around him so it's just buzzing constantly)
?? Hyōkirai
?? Hyōsonae
?? Hyōuppun
Hyōhisan
Hyōhisan, again, is not particularly tactically minded. She'll burn her surprise going after the weakest link she sees in front of her: Canrippu, who is limping slightly thanks to his Mild. Supp jump down, Standard attack:
Hyōhisan (Face-Nomming): ?? + ?? (boost) + ?? (Pounce from High Ground) + ?? (innate Leopard Clan bonus) + ?? (Flat-Footed – bonus increased by a stunt) + ?? (Shadow Blend) + ? = ??
Canrippu (Athletics): 52 - 3 (Mild) + 6 (boost) + 18 (Strength of the Pack) + 12 (2x Invokes) + 15 (5xFP ½ invokes) + 0 = 100
?? + 2 = ?? stress, Canrippu is instantly dead.
With that done, Hyōhisan will jump back up onto the Zone 5 ridge (she can do this with a Supplemental, thanks to her Leopard Clan perk).
Cancurunchu
Just saw another one of his pack members die. He has no tolerance for that – he would immediately jump on Hyōhisan… but he can't with the Border:1 needed to get up to her! He'll Block against any Leopard attacking.
Cancurunchu (Jaw and Claw): 64 + 7 (boost) + 21 (3x tag SotP) + 9 = 101
Canzappu
Need to kill Hyōhisan, but she's too agile to be targeted now that she's back in the shadows. Hyōgekido is getting ready to jump down. Canzappu will target that Leopard before it can deal any more damage.
Attacker wins on a tie, so Canzappu deals 3 stress.
Cankamu
Likewise, Hyōhisan is a bit too strong to deal with right now. He doesn't want the Leopards playing keep away, so he'll specifically Block against any Leopard running away after their attack. Together with Cancurunchu, they should be able to trap any Leopard that comes into the Zone.
Cankamu (Jaw and Claw): 59 + 6 (boost) + 18 (3x tag SotP) + 9 = 92
Hyōkutsū
He's got his meteors ready, it's time for a lightshow! He'll send in six meteors, sending them at (Cancurunchu, Cancurunchu, Cankamu, Cankamu, Cansaku, Cansaku). This isn't 6 attacks – it's 2 attacks per target, and he gets to choose the better roll.
Cansaku
Has nothing to do immediately, so will take Full Defense, since the two Leopards are on high ground on either side of him.
Hyōgekido
Jumps down to attack Cankamu, who seems weak since he just took a hit. Unfortunately, Cancurunchu is Blocking, so Hyōgekido needs to beat the Block to get an attack in:
Pretty good, but doesn't beat a 100. He can't make it to Cankamu, and he doesn't want to tangle with Cancurunchu because Cancurunchu looks too tough – Hyōgekido is gonna get his face eaten. He'll just try to jump back up, which is when Cankamu finally moves in to pin him down:
[NB: There was a brief QM discussion about whether Blocking with a melee skill should make an attack when enemies fail to beat the Block. Balance aside, I could see narrative logic either way, but in this case, I ruled that Cancurunchu could not make an attack. For balance reasons, I probably wouldn't apply an attack in the future.]
Hyōgekido takes ?? stress! That's a Mild and a Severe!
Canfuwumpu
He doesn't have much useful to do – but his teammates are taking fire in Zone 4, and he can't let that keep happening. Moving closer also makes him more likely to do something tactically useful eventually, and keeps the Dogs moving forward. He'll run forward into Zone 4, then take Full Defense while acting like bait. Hopefully that soaks some hits away from other members of his party.
Hazō
The Dogs can't run forward to deal with the meteor user, since that would break their Strength of the Pack bond. It's Hazō's responsibility to deal with that. They're a ninjutsu user, so Hazō needs to actually neutralize them, not just Goo Bomb them, so he'll attack with Taijutsu.
Supplemental: RRB-boosted Sprint to cross two Zones into the den Zone. [NB: Is this how this should work? This is extremely strong. Tentatively ruling that yes, RRBs let you cross two Zones in one Supp (assuming no border) for now, but will come back to this later.]
Standard: Attack (saving a Supplemental for emergency Substitution)
Hazō (Alertness): 36 + 2 (Living Roots) + 10 (Eye Spy) + 3 = 51
Hyōkutsū (⅓ Stealth): ⅓ * (?? + ?? (Shadow Blend)) + ? = ??
(This is so easy I'm going to skip any Alertness checks against Shadow Blend in melee)
Hazō deals ? + 4 = ?? stress, that's a Mild, Moderate, and Severe!
Round 2
?? Hyōhisan
63 Cancurunchu
57 Canzappu
49 Cankamu
?? Hyōkutsū
46 Cansaku
?? Hyōgekido
41 Canhachi
40 Canfuwumpu
38 Hazō
?? Hyōkirai
?? Hyōsonae
?? Hyōuppun
Hyōhisan
Attacking Cankamu didn't go so well for Hyōgekido – Cankamu is still on Hyōgekido, so let that guy figure it out for himself. Go for Cansaku instead. Cancurunchu will try to interpose:
Hyōhisan narrowly evades Cancurunchu's Block! But, it's at the cost of her High Ground bonus.
Hyōhisan (Face-Nomming): ?? + ?? (boost) + ?? (innate) + ?? (Shadow Blend) + ? = ??
Cansaku (Jaw and Claw): 56 + 6 (boost) + 18 (SotPx3) + 12 (2x Invokes) + 6 = 98 Cansaku spends a FP for ½ AB, check total is 101.
Cansaku takes 1 + 2 = 3 stress, filling his stress track. How lucky.
Hyōhisan bounds back into the shadows.
Hyōhisan (Athletics): ?? + ?? (boost) + ?? (innate) + ?? (Bounding Evasion) + ?? (Shadow Blend) + ? = ??
Easily evading Cankamu's Block.
Cancurunchu
They need to deal with Hyōhisan! But Cancurunchu is almost out of chakra! He can't move to Zones 2 or 3, because he'll break the packbond, so he instead Standard moves into Zone 5, hoping that this baits Hyōhisan into attacking him.
Canzappu
Moves forward to Zone 4 to give the packbond some more breathing room. Hyōhisan is a problem, but does Canzappu have a shot of landing a hit? It may be better to target the meteor-thrower.
That's another miss! But Hyōkutsū is out of Bounding Evasion RefSups momentarily, if some dog can take advantage of that…
Cankamu
Supplemental: move into the Zone with Hyōkutsū, breaking the packbond.
Supplemental: Strength of the Pack:4, making a new bond with Cansaku and himself.
Standard: Attack Hyōkutsū.
With the Force Claws, that's ? + 4 = ? stress, a Moderate.
Hyōkutsū needs to make a TN(stress * 10) Resolve check or lose Meteor Shower.
Hyōkutsū (Resolve): hahaha
Nope, the meteors go dull.
Hyōkutsū
Unfortunately, the meteors are a full-round action to get active, something he can't afford right now. He'll back up into Zone 3 (with Hyōkirai) and use a secondary attack on Cankamu, keeping one Supplemental for Bounding Evasion. He'd go into Zone 6, except the elevation doesn't work out for him to keep being able to target Cankamu.
Hyōkutsū dodges with a touch of luck, but he's barely keeping ahead of the attacks, and is now out of Supplementals…
Canfuwumpu
Debuffing Hyōhisan is priority number 1.
Standard: Follow Cancurunchu into Zone 5, hopefully to get the debuff off next round.
Hazō
Hyōkutsū is a weak target, but Hazō's attacks are rolling low enough that he doesn't think he's likely to hit even an injured Hyōkutsū. Instead, he'll attack Hyōkirai, taking a Supplemental to move into range before attacking:
Hazō takes 2 + 1 = 3 stress, of which PEA soaks all of it.
This summoner is annoying, but there's another dog now in the entryway to the clutch, ready to attack the cubs. Supplemental Sprint away (into Zone 6), then Fangs from Afar onto Cankamu.
Hazō deals ? + 4 = ? stress, which would kill two Leopards.
Round 3
?? Hyōhisan
63 Cancurunchu
57 Canzappu
49 Cankamu
?? Hyōkutsū
46 Cansaku
41 Canhachi
40 Canfuwumpu
38 Hazō
?? Hyōkirai
Cancurunchu overdraws for a Moderate! Canzappu overdraws for a Moderate and a Severe! Canhachi overdraws for a Moderate and Severe!
Hyōhisan
Well, these Dogs are annoying. Moreover, there's one in particular that's hanging out by the entry to the den, and all the old defenders there have been taken down or scared away. That can't be allowed.
Supplemental: Sprint to Zone 2.
Standard: Attack Cankamu.
With Jashin's favor, ? + 4 = ? stress is barely enough to kill.
[NB: I know I said the Dogs would focus on taking down the strong enemies, so Cansaku should have gone after Hyōhisan here. This was more tactically optimal I think, but my mistake nonetheless, as people shouldn't always be optimal (see: the Leopards).]
Canhachi
Attack Hyōkirai to take down the weird jaw-swarm things!
Jashin's favor has turned against our bloodied Leopard jōnin. Hyōhisan is now taking a -12 to physical skills, and has a new Aspect "Sleepy" that Canfuwumpu can pass tags around on. Half of the dogs are from Canfuwumpu's pack, and have taken the appropriate combo stunt to exploit this with SotP.
[NB: Oops, I forgot I was going to coinflip for each dog to see if they could combine with SotP, and just let everyone use it. Oh well.]
No dice. Should really be focusing on the summoner.
Round 4
?? Hyōhisan
61 Cancurunchu
54 Canzappu
46 Cansaku
41 Canhachi
38 Hazō
?? Hyōkirai
35 Canfuwumpu
Cancurunchu, Canzappu, and Canhachi take their overdraw Consequences! Cancurunchu overdraws for a Severe!
Hyōhisan
Debuffed, how annoying. The rest of her allies are dead, but she's still strong enough to kill these Dogs. Starting with the annoying Canfuwumpu.
Jashin smiles on Cancurunchu, and he barely deals ? + 4 = ? stress, inflicting a Mild Consequence!
Well, that was underwhelming. He's taking a Severe next round, all his strong dogs are Severe'd up, so this fight is lost. He's gonna call the retreat and back up a Zone so as to not let Canfuwumpu out of the packbond.
Canzappu
Retreat! Breaks the packbond running away.
Cansaku
He's young, he's impulsive, he's going for the kill.
Hyōhisan
Neither of the Dogs in her Zone are injured, and the two injured ones have ran off! She can't go running around willy-nilly – she'll fight to the death to defend the den. Still, any attack is probably insta-death, so she takes Full Defense.
[NB: I forgot to apply Hyōhisan's Full Defense, which would have let her survive this attack given Cansaku's bad roll, and Cansaku's future attacks would be much weaker without the double tag. Canfuwumpu doesn't have a direct attack technique, Hazō's not hitting high enough numbers to hit an injured jōnin, and the whole Dog team was ultra-low on chakra, so Hyōhisan might legitimately have won or at least stalemated from this point had I actually remembered…]
Combat rolls from chapter 665 have been edited into the chapter. Feel free to let me know if there are any errors, but I don't intend to change anything as a result.
Note that I am not writing the next chapter and you definitely should not rely on @Velorien to make rule judgements the same way I do, especially in cases where I said "Probably."
This is very wise. Lie detection isn't just about comparing a statement to existing information and identifying inconsistencies. That's easy mode. Lie detection is about recognising tells that someone's speaking with the intent to deceive you. Hazō is trying to convince Itachi that he is "innocent Hazō talking about the normal ninja things he does" when he is actually "guilty Hazō who is attempting to get away with something he knows Itachi would kill him for". Itachi is aware of both possibilities and is trying to tell which one is real. He doesn't immediately need to know what Hazō is trying to get away with; he can establish that through further interrogation once he knows something's up.
Do you think the pre-Pain status quo had less consent violation (ex: farmers being taxed without consent) than the ritual? And that our alternatives for allies violate consent less (ex: Leaf taxing farmers)?
Tax collection seems like a much less invasive sort of consent violation than mind alteration. Someone who doesn't like their current country's tax policy can (at least in principle) push back in various ways, or flee to greener pastures. No equivalent recourse is open to those dissatisfied with global-range brainwashing, because "global range" means there's nowhere to run, and "brainwashing" means the ability to even contemplate alternatives is impaired.
The difference between Pain and us is that we only use force when we have to, whereas AFAIK Pain went straight for force. I don't think we can trust him, and I really don't want to trust the rest of Akatsuki.
Sound entitled and deliquent in Naruto/Itachi's letter. We'll come home when we're Sage-Damned ready. There's a war on the Seventh Path and trap arrays need to be dismantled.
How about an offer to share Hazo and Kagome's recent projects in exchange for access to all of Sasori and Konan's research notes from the same time period?
On the grounds that Hazo was promised, if he played by the rules he'd be left alone to pursue his other work, and he has in fact played by the rules insofar as none of that work was rift-related nor involved direct action against Akatsuki interests, so payment for intruding on his valuable time anyway needs to be negotiated separately. Could be read as sarcastic and insulting, or accepted as a fair trade if Itachi actually wants to act more like a legitimate government.
Does deliberately working on weapons to kill the Akatsuki as part of a Leaf state project to wipe them out and deny them access to the Rift not count as "interfering with Nagato's rescue"? I would say it very much does.
Developing weapons and other sealtech for Leaf falls within "our work of Uplift," and is a necessary part of rebuilding Leaf's currently precarious strategic position. Hokage gets the last word on how those weapons are to be used, and while Hazo went to a lot of trouble to ensure that somebody Uplift-aligned would be "wearing the hat," the mad clan lord can't reasonably be held responsible for every detail of Leaf's foreign policy and strategic planning.
If Itachi didn't want Naruto to be biased against Akatsuki, maybe he should've thought of that when he was abducting and torturing someone who was, even at the time, an obvious eventual hokage candidate. If he didn't want Leaf to be currently scrambling for new defensive options, maybe he should have thought of that when he was carving chunks off their territory right after somebody - glares at Hidan - murdered the previous hokage. Doesn't take a jonin social spec to know that if you try to intimidate somebody into being calm and confident, you're gonna have a bad time.
If "interfering with Nagato's rescue" is to be interpreted so broadly that merely developing multi-purpose capacity infringes on it... Itachi does actually remember who won the Battle of the Gods, right? Nagato didn't successfully finish that ritual, so ninja all over the world are still naturally conflict-prone, so per his parting words we have to work toward lasting peace the hard way, and doing unprecedented things the hard way requires superior tools. What else are we supposed to do here? Roll over and be your slaves? Even if we wanted to, Nara projections say that leads to AMITY's immediate collapse and another world war, which probably wouldn't be good news for Nagato's rescue either.
Combat rolls from chapter 665 have been edited into the chapter. Feel free to let me know if there are any errors, but I don't intend to change anything as a result.
Developing weapons and other sealtech for Leaf falls within "our work of Uplift," and is a necessary part of rebuilding Leaf's currently precarious strategic position.
We're not doing general weapons development for the generic purposes of strengthening Leaf's geopolitical position. We're developing weapons for the highly specific purpose of killing Akatsuki members, optimized to be deployed at the rift site, at the culmination of the rift race whose explicit goal is to interfere with the Akatsuki's resurrection of Pain.
We don't even have any plausible deniability. We were ordered to do precisely this. We are acutely aware that we are doing this. The knowledge of our targets and the deployment profile constantly shapes the choice of our projects.
It doesn't matter that the Hokage ordered us to and that we don't have the legal power to overrule him. Itachi said he'll kill Hazou if he interferes with the Akatsuki's plans. We are knowingly interfering with the Akatsuki's plans. Therefore, Itachi will (do his best to) kill us.
Excuse me? Sharing all prior rift-related research with Akatsuki members isn't just permitted under the agreement, it's quite explicitly obligatory!
I want confirmation that the thing mentioned in the narrative is still canon, so that I can know whether we can have a shadow clone do a mega-suicide in the middle of an Akatsuki camp or whether we can threaten Itachi with mutually assured destruction that he can't quickly stop us from performing.
At what point do things start being treated as separate encounters for the purposes of unstagnating?
Would being assigned on a six month Border Patrol mission mean that you'd be unable to unstagante more than once in that entire period? Seems really unfair compared to someone who performs raid missions.
Hyōhisan (Face-Nomming): ?? + ?? (boost) + ?? (Pounce from High Ground) + ?? (innate Leopard Clan bonus) + ?? (Flat-Footed – bonus increased by a stunt) + ?? (Shadow Blend) + ? = ??
Canrippu (Athletics): 52 - 3 (Mild) + 6 (boost) + 18 (Strength of the Pack) + 12 (2x Invokes) + 15 (5xFP ½ invokes) + 0 = 100
?? + 2 = ?? stress, Canrippu is instantly dead.
Quotes aren't working for me on mobile, apologies.
Well, seeing someone hit 100 defensively and still instantly die should at least let us recalibrate our expectation of beating Itachi's main attack stat.
(Yes yes, I know cat jonin was full juicing and the point is that itachi wouldn't be. It's the stunts and innates that are always on that spook me.) Rip Canrippu.
Right, I agree that it's like 90% doomed. But if we can handle these problems it seems likely to get us a few extra months.
The response to your first question is "yeah alright otw boss" -- it fails gently. But I'm sure Itachi would prefer not to spend weeks waiting around for us, so if we're like "it'll be two weeks to get back, or you can meet me in Dog tomorrow." that'd be pretty convincing imo, especially if it came with Cannai pledging he would not allow Itachi to come to harm from actions there unless he goes against it himself.
Regarding the other questions: I genuinely do not know if Cannai would be able to protect us. But I do think that Itachi is likely to value his reputation on the seventh path more than just killing Hazou. As to whether Cannai's unwilling to mediate, then we just don't do that.
I'd argue that we were completely justified in violating the terms since they were bad faith to begin with. We all knew there would be consequences as well, so we worked on weapons. If Hazou was better off making the argument for amending the rules under which he has to work under, wouldn't this work better if he went around Itachi and had Cannai help Hazou make our case to Kisame instead?
Besdes Kisame's admission that he stalled on the dragons and subsequently got his wakeup call, I don't think we've heard anything too egregious about him since the battle of the Gods. Those embassy and trading demands for Leaf were a lot more tolerable than the conditions from the other Akatsuki members. This could be off the mark, but with his 7th path clans condition and his coastal embassies, he seems interested in using diplomacy on the 7th path. That kind of position means we have better odds asking Cannai to meet him in good faith than Itachi. The only issue I see is what Cannai makes of our argument beforehand and if he can get Itachi to budge.
I want confirmation that the thing mentioned in the narrative is still canon, so that I can know whether we can have a shadow clone do a mega-suicide in the middle of an Akatsuki camp or whether we can threaten Itachi with mutually assured destruction that he can't quickly stop us from performing.
I think you already have the answers to both questions. It takes 50 years to deliberately trigger a runic sealing failure, so suicide runic failures are unviable. You can threaten Itachi with MAD all you like since he doesn't know how long runes take to infuse, but it will be a bluff regardless because the actual time is 50 years.
To put it bluntly, don't overthink this. The Hazōpilot will never deliberately trigger a runic sealing failure.
I'd argue that we were completely justified in violating the terms since they were bad faith to begin with. We all knew there would be consequences as well, so we worked on weapons. If Hazou was better off making the argument for amending the rules under which he has to work under, wouldn't this work better if he went around Itachi and had Cannai help Hazou make our case to Kisame instead?
Besdes Kisame's admission that he stalled on the dragons and subsequently got his wakeup call, I don't think we've heard anything too egregious about him since the battle of the Gods. Those embassy and trading demands for Leaf were a lot more tolerable than the conditions from the other Akatsuki members. This could be off the mark, but with his 7th path clans condition and his coastal embassies, he seems interested in using diplomacy on the 7th path. That kind of position means we have better odds asking Cannai to meet him in good faith than Itachi. The only issue I see is what Cannai makes of our argument beforehand and if he can get Itachi to budge.
Ehhh, I've been pretty thoroughly convinced it's unworkable. Thooough...
We could always go to the conclave (what's left of it) and have our oath that we have not done dimensionalism research be witnessed. No need to have Itachi there and poking in with us at all, that way.
At what point do things start being treated as separate encounters for the purposes of unstagnating?
Would being assigned on a six month Border Patrol mission mean that you'd be unable to unstagante more than once in that entire period? Seems really unfair compared to someone who performs raid missions.
QM judgement. Nobody is going to spend six months constantly fending off challenging border incursions (and if they did, stagnancy would be the least of their problems). A series of combats representing a single border incursion might be unstagnation material. If there are multiple border incursions, there's a opportunity for multiple unstagnations. Otherwise, you might just get one (or none if the mission is too easy).
One thing I would like to note is that all our full ninja clan members, not just core Team Uplift, know of the existence of the MARS seal, so if we go missing then that seal is definitely going to come out into the open once our remaining Goketsu clan members inevitably get interrogated.
Also with Naruto having thoroughly proven that he cannot lie to Itachi, Naruto's plan is entirely doomed as Itachi is 100% going to ask Naruto if he ordered Hazo to go missing.
And Naruto won't be able to lie anywhere near convincingly enough to make Itachi believe he didn't.
So Action plan: Bug Out (Redux) at minimum probably results in a dead Naruto.
Darn right it doesn't. Team Uplift has a substantially higher average "villages defected from" count than Akatsuki. Why should details of the Hokage's orders be taken as any more than weak evidence of Hazo's subsequent actions or underlying intent? Instead, look at the actual stuff he's done so far. Setting aside unfocused faffing about with colors of light, or seals that literally do nothing beyond gently poking at other seals, or un-stealthy static defenses that take hours and hours of immobile total concentration and intensive chakra expenditure to set up... in what world would, say, force blades be crucial to a serious assault on the rift site? Tsunade can't channel her touch-range mednin tricks through them. Naruto already has the Rasengan, and his nigh-unlimited shadow clones don't duplicate infused seals. If they were supposed to be some big secret surprise, Hazo wouldn't have used them for an intentionally high-profile border skirmish against Leopard!
One thing I would like to note is that all our full ninja clan members, not just core Team Uplift, know of the existence of the MARS seal, so if we go missing then that seal is definitely going to come out into the open once our remaining Goketsu clan members inevitably get interrogated
Well, seeing someone hit 100 defensively and still instantly die should at least let us recalibrate our expectation of beating Itachi's main attack stat.
I think this more goes to show how strong attacking from Stealth can be, but given his reputation I'm sure Itachi is also plenty strong. That being said, Itachi's main attack is genjutsu which, besides the Sharingan, doesn't seem to have many buffs, though in fairness the defensive skills to block genjutsu also don't have many buffs. His two mangekyo abilities are pretty much instant kills if they hit you so I'm not even sure how that's rolled. His other combat skills like fire ninjutsu and swordsmanship are good but not world class if Oro is to be believed.
But even so, I would leery of drawing any conclusions about human combatants from summons.
Alright. As an intellectual exercise, I've challenged myself to come up any plan for dealing with Itachi socially that doesn't look instantly doomed to me. Here's what I'm thinking.
First, one extant idea that seems good is making the meeting happen on the Seventh Path, through a Shadow Clone. What could justify this, however? The existing ideas are:
Increased expediency. Claim that we can meet with Itachi on the Seventh Path quickly, but that if he wants to meet us in-person, he's going to have to wait a couple weeks while we dismantle our camp, bury/destroy our research, and get over to Leaf.
Normal paranoia, partly fueled by Asuma's fate. Imply that we're wary that Itachi, now that he's suspicious, is going to murder us anyway, even if we didn't do anything wrong.
Obviously don't actually say that to his face, but kind of hint at that using written communication, so that he's inclined to round off some of our suspicious behavior towards said normal paranoia.
Protectiveness towards our research: fear that Itachi is going to loot us again, even if our stuff has nothing to do with dimensionalism.
This has the bonus of being completely true: Hazou can lean into these feelings during the face-to-face meeting.
But that's of course nowhere near enough. This would at best lead to him demanding our location and flying over there. He's going to steamroll over the other concerns. What else can we do?
Here's an idea: lean into what just happened. Focus Hazou's thoughts on the revelation that there's Something watching him, and that he's been feeding himself to Out-things for years. Do a "mindset-shaping" plan segment, like in our Hidan-manipulation plan. Fuel Hazou's paranoia: bring to mind Kagome's stories, point out how direly concerning that revelation really is. Is Hazou sure that everything is fine? Perhaps the Something only made it seem like he's protected now, while actually, it just monopolized him, and is chewing on his mind even now? Optionally, share what happened with Kagome, so the two can paranoia-spiral together.
What's the recourse here? Why, the Seventh Path.
As we know/suspect, the Seventh Path has been intended as a kind of paradise by the Sage. In particular, what he seems to have done is reinforce it against incursions from the Out. This also served a double-purpose in reinforcing its cosmological status against the Animal Path's attempts to re-absorb it.
Therefore, if you're desperately trying to hide from the attention of some Out entity, hiding on the Seventh Path is a reasonable move. What's even more reasonable is petition for your Clan Boss' protection. Doubtlessly Cannai can do something which might theoretically help with that, given his ability to warp reality within his land.
So, after Hazou goes into a paranoid frenzy, he decides to spend some time on the Seventh Path, in a location metaphysically reinforced by Cannai. The idea of traveling hundreds of miles on the Seventh Path to be jounin-aura'd at by Itachi is suddenly even more unappealing.
Thus, Hazou argues that he strongly prefers to meet on the Seventh Path, ideally on the border of Dog.
He then keeps the meeting with Itachi brief and hurried. He's paranoid about the entity, he's uncomfortable being outside the heart of Dog's territory, and he's concerned Itachi might arbitrarily decide to kill him or steal from him again. He rattles off some denials, then leaves in a hurry. Cannai looms over his shoulders to make Itachi wary of trying anything.
Some further advantages here:
As corroborating evidence, we can encourage Itachi to question our clanmates regarding our previous Out-possession episode. This is something unexpected and weird, and a vulnerability that we reveal, but it also has nothing to do with the things Itachi would kill us over. That makes the story very plausible!
We can – very reluctantly and with much hand-wringing – present Itachi RRB and Force Claws. Those are jounin-level seals, and his essie arrogance makes him underestimate Hazou. It would be believable, to him, that Hazou pushed himself too far developing this stuff, and now suffers from some typical sealmaster-y afflictions.
Itachi is well-versed in Forbidden Lore, and the Seventh Path being reinforced from Out incursions is path of it – special esoteric knowledge known only to a select few. That makes the story we spin high-status; Itachi might be somewhat inclined to believe it based on just that.
So, the plan would be:
Immediatelly following 667, have a plan segment that makes Hazou go into a paranoid frenzy and decide he must hide from the Something on the Seventh Path. Tell that to Cannai and seek protection. Optionally, loop-in Kagome for a paranoia spiral.
Send a message to Noburi communicating all that, and a letter to Itachi.
In the letter, outline what happened, encourage to question our clanmates regarding the previous Out episode, and kind of imply that we don't trust him not to kill us arbitrarily over nothing. Strongly suggest meeting on the Seventh Path.
Say that if he wants a Human Path meeting, he's welcome to either wait a month while we come down from our paranoic episode ensure we're safe, or that he's free to fly over to our research facility – the recent site of an Out incursion which Something might yet prowl – and have a 30-second chat with us because we are not staying there for any longer.
During the meeting, keep things as terse as possible. Reluctantly hand over RRB and FC for a check. Have Cannai be overly protective and not taking any questions aside from the dimensionalism-related stuff. Definitely not allow any intimidation or aura-flexing (since that thins reality, and was sometimes a trigger for worsening Hazou's Out episodes).
After the meeting, gradually ramp the paranoia down. (We might suffer some permanent characterization consequences though, of Hazou being paranoid towards DoB.)
I think this is a very zany scheme, but I can see this maybe sorta possibly working.
I'm not going to turn this into a plan, though others are welcome to.
