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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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High key expect Itachi to nab Hazou once he learns that Hazou is the world's only Lithosealmaster. Hazou can't fight back, Leaf would assume Hazou is a traitor/dead, and then the Akatsuki can work on swaying Hazou to their side. As far as Itachi knows, Hazou and Hidan get along.
 
Buggy said:
Okay, so. I agree, and I want to reveal lithosealing, and that's why i made a second version of the plan which reveals lithosealing. But here's the problem. Lots of people here also don't want to reveal lithosealing, and I think that a plan that does it does not stand a good chance of winning; currently this one is only barely in the lead ahead of 'decline'. And the mention of lithosealing in the original was a 'if statement', because it was a outline and I was pointing out to the players that we could do that and win the argument but at risk. And I can't just unilaterally change how I handle lithosealing in the main plan after people have voted for it. Even adding a 'if Itachi is still not convinced, reveal lithosealing' would be a big change.
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I mean the thing is people are going to vote for the plans that have the most votes. By making the Lithosealing variant into a new, separate plan with a different name, you've reset its vote count to 0, while Grandfathering in the sharing of bloodline secrets, which were represented in the plan before to a much smaller degree than Lithosealing had been, while cutting out of Lithosealing completely at a time when the plan had already been the leading plan.

Could you at least add revealing Lithosealing as a last resort if Itachi is unconvinced of our sealing skill? Having no Sealing leverage is derailing the entire plan atm, I think, and in its current shape I'd rate its chances of succeeding at any of its intended outcomes as near zero.

And once again, there is no scenario in which we join Akatsuki and don't share Lithosealing with them, because we have to work on it and otherwise we won't be able to. So if the intent is to join Akatsuki (and I assume it is), then it makes no sense to hold the massive bombshell out in reserve when sharing it is more convincing in negotiations than the entire rest of the plan put together, times ten, probably.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by RandomOTP on Oct 13, 2023 at 12:15 PM, finished with 297 posts and 41 votes.
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Status of the current voting cycle.
 
I mean I can understand buggy being nervous about last minute changes pissing off voters. But yeah I would like to know if buggy is more nervous about lithosealing specifically than other changes they've done like bloodlines. And if so, whether that extra worry is grounded.
One thing we can do to help buggy. Is more of the people who voted for buggy's plans can give their opinions on the proposed change.
 
RandomOTP said:
For what it's worth, I wasn't meme voting at all. I do NOT want to join the Akatsuki, I do NOT want to betray Ami, and I do NOT want to give up opsec on our secrets to the Akatsuki.

I would rather Hazou tell Itachi to go fuck off while consumed with a near-suicidal level of scorn than to betray Leaf, betray Ami, or give up yet more of our hard-won shinies for free.
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If you truly want to execute that plan then you can write a plan yourself that says "Do the joke plan, but for real" and links to the joke plan in question. The plan was a joke so voting for it may cause adverse outcomes.
 
roobee said:
I mean I can understand buggy being nervous about last minute changes pissing off voters. But yeah I would like to know if buggy is more nervous about lithosealing specifically than other changes they've done like bloodlines. And if so, whether that extra worry is grounded.
One thing we can do to help buggy. Is more of the people who voted for buggy's plans can give their opinions on the proposed change.
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There is still a full 25h to go, too.
 
Zampano said:
If the answer is no then you have just painted a target on Ami's back. If the answer is no and HazoPilot reveals Ami's knowledge of Necromancy, you have painted a target on her back.

If the answer is yes, and she arrives, you will be alerting her to Hazo's treason. If she is discovered, Tsunade will banish her from Leaf and separate her from Kei. Ami has a lot of goodwill for Hazo but the one line in the sand that Ami has repeatedly warned us about is that we cannot endanger her relationship with Kei. Being banished would make it harder for her to visit Kei.
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You raise a fair point. I will modify it so that we intend to try to keep Ami in the dark about whether or not Hazo would betray Leaf, and hopefully even if she figured it out, information quarantine is maintained at least to the level of 'can give technically-not-a-lie answers when asked'.


Just to be clear, I do not think it's plausible that revealing Ami is aware of necromancy endangers her. The list of people who know is:
Naruto, Ami, Asuma (who probably wrote it down), Shikamaru, our entire family, the two toads.

Shikamaru has probably already told the Hokage and regardless is the head of the Nara. Naruto is the next hokage. There is no way that this secret is maintained without Itachi promptly nuking Leaf.

I have added on that we should be a bit more subtle and not reveal that Ami knows unless necessary.
Zampano said:
Respectfully, the entire plan refuses to engage with the actual choice that we face:
Hazo can join Akatsuki, or he can stay with his family as a loyal Leaf ninja. He cannot do both.
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Bah, trolley problems.


roobee said:
@Buggy

I don't like this condition. Can you remove it?
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I can't really see Itachi going for it? Why would he revive a bunch of loyal village ninja who will just go on to make war later? I could change it to something like 'only revive people who will positively impact the world, such as wanting peace or swearing to uphold AMITY'.

roobee said:
Also can you add this back in?

I think it's a decent idea
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Someone mentioned that it's a weaker plan than the other two, so mentioning it sort of undermines those. Also it would be a bit of a fig leaf for exfiltration that wouldn't work super well.

Could anyone else chime in on that? Would it be better to put it in?

roobee said:
And that both he and RandomOTP, who voted against C, are not voting for your plan. Does that change your mind about whether to include C? Which I think you are currently not doing?
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I think there are more people who dislike C than just those two. But there are some excellent points raised about the fact that we can't practice lithosealing around Akatsuki regardless, so its all or nothing.

I'll see if there's sentiment to that effect after this post. If people think it's not much worse than revealing what we reveal already, and that changing it now wouldn't piss off voters, i'll put it in.
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
Thanks for the answer (and sorry about being confusing with my wordings a bit, I edited the post but it looks like late enough that you responded to the confusingly-worded version)

Specifically for our current purposes: is there a way for Hazou in his current situation to do sealing research without physically taxing himself? i.e. taking a leisurely stroll to the facilities instead, with Kagome escorting him, or even by having Kagome carry Hazou there? I know I'm proposing a finicky and annoying way to get around Hazou's current physical limitations, but, like, when I broke my leg some years back that's exactly what I had to do irl.

Much of this will fall beneath the layer of abstraction anyways, so the true question here is whether it's possible at all, provided Hazou is willing to put up with finicky restrictions and lean on his family for help.
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Yes, we expect that Hazou will be able to do sealing research in the next few months in-game without inhibiting his natural healing. Maybe he'll construct a research facility closer to Leaf, or maybe he'll have a wagon take him out to the existing areas daily. Since sealing research is ~all day, he'll need any med-nin to accompany him to the site if he wants to benefit from medical ninjutsu.

Sir Stompy said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
In the interests of boosting Sealing and PS we've had some proposed ideas for (litho)seals that smooth out environmental chakra and make it more regular. Does Hazou think that has promise as something that could make (P)Sealing easier?
What are the top 3-5 difficulties with infusion?
My model is that infusion involves extraordinarily complicated shaping of your chakra to the seal. So anything that makes shaping your chakra easier is something that helps with infusion.
Are there other things that could help? Like an advanced almanac for phases of the moons and whatnot?
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Respectively:
No.
Insert magic babble here.
That's certainly part of it, but affecting the environment won't substantially affect your own internal chakra control.
It's assumed that Hazō already has those things.

DanZapman said:
Posting here after some Discord discussion- it would make sense for higher levels of MEW to give tags to allies as well, to simulate being large enough to protect multiple people. Mechanically it shouldn't have too much impact since it needs some amount of investment in a specific trick, and it's not strictly better than just defending against things normally. Until you reach higher levels it costs chakra to achieve the same results defensive stats do as a baseline, and at higher levels it's balanced by needing investment and still costing chakra in exchange for possibly protecting allies too.
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Tags produced by MEW are already passable – though the utility is limited since the range is only in Melee of yourself. If you'd like to expand the reflexive range of MEW to make it a general purpose defensive tool for your team, consider Technique Hacking it.
 
Buggy said:
I can't really see Itachi going for it? Why would he revive a bunch of loyal village ninja who will just go on to make war later? I could change it to something like 'only revive people who will positively impact the world, such as wanting peace or swearing to uphold AMITY'.
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because pain is so powerful he can stop them? you could also change s-rankers to weak loved ones instead. tons of leaf ninja have weak loved ones.

Buggy said:
I think there are more people who dislike C than just those two. But there are some excellent points raised about the fact that we can't practice lithosealing around Akatsuki regardless, so its all or nothing.
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it may make sense to prioritize people who have actually voted for your plan. especially if your chief concern is whether your voters will get mad at you. in case it helps i went back out of those people who voted for your plan this is what i found (this was quickly done, so mighta missed some)
roobee c
mutant b
crunbum c
black king B with a side of C
cariyaga I'm somewhere between B and C, leaning toward C

note faflec who recently spoke
faflec said:
Speaking only for myself, I think it is a terrible idea and have voted accordingly.
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is not voting for your plan

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Buggy said:
I can't really see Itachi going for it? Why would he revive a bunch of loyal village ninja who will just go on to make war later? I could change it to something like 'only revive people who will positively impact the world, such as wanting peace or swearing to uphold AMITY'.
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also, the main concern i had was itachi being against pain swearing to uphold amity. i agree that he'd like non-pain people to make such an oath, although i don't think he'd trust their word
 
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Buggy said:
I think there are more people who dislike C than just those two. But there are some excellent points raised about the fact that we can't practice lithosealing around Akatsuki regardless, so its all or nothing.

I'll see if there's sentiment to that effect after this post. If people think it's not much worse than revealing what we reveal already, and that changing it now wouldn't piss off voters, i'll put it in.
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Um... I don't recall anyone who is currently voting on the plan but opposes sharing lithosealing off the top of my head, while there certainly is a bunch of people vocally wanting it back, and those who are voting on your plan and voted in the little questionnaire seemed to have voted with a quite heavy C preference - but I guess we will see. Could you reiterate on why you have the impression its unwanted? It appears to me that its much more wanted than the inclusion of bloodline secrets had been.

...This is very a divisive vote where half of the players are voting [Yes] and half are voting [No], so I think its pretty crucial for the leading [Yes] plan to actually end up with us on board with Akatsuki, rather than leading to a [No] in disguise as we fail to convince..
 
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[X] Action Plan: Politely Decline
[X] Action Plan: I Am Once Again Asking For Your Diplomatic Support
 
@Buggy
I mentioned this before so let me know if you prefer I not repeat stuff even if you don't respond to it.
Given the importance of convincing itachi. can you add notes that hazou is willing to spend FP on convincing itachi to let ami join, if it comes to a dice roll? And also maybe spend some XP on buying FP?

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also could you tell itachi about the dragons being related to 10fold abomination? that could be key to convincing itachi of the threat. or to inform him that they are the prelude to an even bigger threat.
 
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roobee said:
I mentioned this before so let me know if you prefer I not repeat stuff even if you don't respond to it. Given the importance of convincing itachi. can you add notes that hazou is willing to spend FP on convincing itachi to let ami join, if it comes to a dice roll? And also maybe spend some XP on buying FP?

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also could you tell itachi about the dragons being related to 10fold abomination? that could be key to convincing itachi of the threat. or to inform him that they are the prelude to an even bigger threat.
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If it comes down to a roll, there is no way we are succeeding, we are a social genin with a Severe. We have to convince Itachi with facts. As for the Tenfold Abomination, pretty sure Itachi knows much more of that lore than we do and he knew about the souldrinkers (proto-dragons) too, while we were just like "Tenfold Abomination? What's that?", this very update.
 
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Crunbum said:
Um... I don't recall anyone who is currently voting on the plan but opposes sharing lithosealing off the top of my head, while there certainly is a bunch of people vocally wanting it back, and those who are voting on your plan and voted in the little questionnaire seemed to have voted with a quite heavy C preference - but I guess we will see. Could you reiterate on why you have the impression its unwanted? It appears to me that its much more wanted than the inclusion of bloodline secrets had been.

...This is very a divisive vote where half of the players are voting [Yes] and half are voting [No], so I think its pretty crucial for the leading [Yes] plan to actually end up with us on board with Akatsuki, rather than leading to a [No] in disguise as we fail to convince..
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I'm tempted, honestly. I'm trying to get some more opinions on the matter to make sure i'm not just talking to a vocal minority, but its difficult. This vote is exceedingly close and I really do not want to turn people away with this.

If there is anyone who hasn't voted for the plan and definitely would if I included this, by all means, chime in.

roobee said:
@Buggy
also could you tell itachi about the dragons being related to 10fold abomination? that could be key to convincing itachi of the threat. or to inform him that they are the prelude to an even bigger threat.
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Considering how Itachi is already suspicious of how we heard that, I can't say that would end well. Either he believes us, and is suddenly much more interested in Kagome, or he doesn't believe us.
 
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Crunbum said:
If it comes down to a roll, there is no way we are succeeding, we are a social genin with a Severe. We have to convince Itachi with facts. As for the Tenfold Abomination, pretty sure Itachi knows much more of that lore than we do and he knew about the souldrinkers (proto-dragons) too, while we were just like "Tenfold Abomination? What's that?", this very update.
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if itachi were fulling contesting the roll sure. if itachi just views it as a minor inconvenience and that's what we need to persuade him on, that's doable. (edit: we've seen noburi convince the toad sages of minor stuff)

Buggy said:
I'm tempted, honestly. I'm trying to get some more opinions on the matter to make sure i'm not just talking to a vocal minority, but its difficult. This vote is exceedingly close and I really do not want to turn people away with this.
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we got bout 24 hours, so i think there's no need to rush a change. but also don't do the change last minute (edit: if you end up doing it) yeah.

Buggy said:
Considering how Itachi is already suspicious of how we heard that, I can't say that would end well. Either he believes us, and is suddenly much more interested in Kagome, or he doesn't believe us.
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i think it was dog boss that told us of the 10fold, so he could verify that via crows. but i guess he could remember the earlier souldrinker point which would tie back to kagome.

Edit: or maybe it was spider boss who told us
 
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