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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan Research Explosion

Looks good, for what it's worth I do not think we should get mono-focused on the movement of things. Deep Magic is worth a study in its own right and not just to make an extra stompy gontri. Who knows maybe we can even make it smart enough to be useful in peacetime, as a library index say.
 
We know what elementals are. Literally read a book on it and all other kinds of constructs.

"[Tier 2] Advanced: Understanding Elementales/Constructs"
Erm... There are different levels of understanding and knowledge.
Thats tier 2 its the basic version for people reading around the subject. Theres probably a tier 3 Aneoqueuququqe version that we don't have. Theres probably a tier 4 book only accessible by travelling into the future much later in the golden age and thats the one I think we need to answer that question.
Recouncilling why there are Earth, Air Water and Fire Elementals and Wind of Magic Elementals is a problem that hasn't been solved as of the warhammer canon period.
 
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I will vote for literally any plan that advances Rune Metal Part 5.
I don't care if it gets done or not, I just want finally some progress on it.
 
Not sure how Mind of Things is supposed to lead to Windsight. We have the sight part down already, but we're missing a rune that interacts with the magic part.

If anything I think a Windsight path is locked behind studying Fimir Hag eyes.

It would honestly be both. Studying a Mearach eye might let us jury-rig Windsight on some existing runes, but that doesn't solve the problem of interpretation and interaction of an entirely foreign sense with the dwarven mind, nor does it give us an actual rune that does the job inherently, both of which are the purview of the Mind of Things.
 
would kartash be able to the brotherhood calls action cause mechanically sure but she wasn't you know there at all. So she wouldn't really be able to tell them any stuff about it
 
[X] Plan: Deep War with Warding and Lions
-[X] [Difficult] Understanding the Armour: 1 action
-[X] March: 1 action
-[X] The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 2: 1 action
--[X] Involve Yorri:
-[X] [Difficult] The Movement of Things Pt. 5, new totals: 1 action
--[X] Prod Yorri: 9 Yorri Prods
-[X] Prod for Prod: 1 action
-[X] The Throng is Mustered: 1 retainer action
-[X] Scouting: 1 retainer action
-[X] Waywarding: 1 retainer action
-[X] [Simple] Firebird's Feather: 1 research action
-[X] [Simple] Lion Autopsy: 1 Karstah action
--[X] Destructive Research: 4 corpses
-[X] ORDER: Write-in: 1x Frostbird Feather

[X] Plan Research Explosion
Preferred letting Karstah hit the lions and these retainer actions for Deep Magic / To War so here's a variant plan.
 
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It would honestly be both. Studying a Mearach eye might let us jury-rig Windsight on some existing runes, but that doesn't solve the problem of interpretation and interaction of an entirely foreign sense with the dwarven mind, nor does it give us an actual rune that does the job inherently, both of which are the purview of the Mind of Things.
And you intend to find out how an entirely different foreign sense works by looking at it through a traditional Dwarven lense how?

If something is unknown and foreign, then by definition it won't be in the standard research path. Especially since Dwarfs don't have any experience with Windsight.

To even know where to get started we'd need a Hag eye.
 
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The fellowing is literally the same as Research Explosion, except it tosses the Movement of Things 1AP into Rune Metal part 5, and adds the Yorri prods from Movement to The Mind of Things instead.

[X] Plan Research Explosion Except Rune Metal
-[X] March: [Cost: 1 action] Begin event, "Fimir Campaign Pt. 1." Your body is healed, your fury roaring like the fires of a freshly stoked furnace. Let them know the anger of a Runelord roused to anger! Let them know the contempt of the wronged and that the Dwarfs shall never, never, allow a debt to remain unsettled if they can help it! [1AP]
-[X] The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 2: [Cost: 6 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. Gain exceptional- understanding of Anoqeyån. Now that Menlinwen has taught you the very fundamentals of the Elven arcane language, she feels comfortable enough to begin teaching you to the same level she has reached. Going any further beyond this point requires waiting for Menlinwen to become an Archmage or for you to find one yourself. [1AP]
-[X] Involve Yorri: [Cost +1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods. Your Master would obviously love to continue learning as well.
-[X] [Difficult] Understanding the Armour: [Cost: (6 -5) =1 action] Master of the Odd will proc. Gain Movement of Things Progress, ???. You have absolutely no clue how and why Barak Azamar managed to drag whatever the Construct is from wherever it came from and seemingly bound it to your equipment. There's a mystery afoot, and you want to figure out why and how this happened before you can even begin thinking about the implications of what it all means. [1AP]
-[X] [Difficult] The Rune Metal Pt. 5: [Cost: (12 -7) =5 actions] Master of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. You've done it. Adamant is now, slowly, being made from your forge! It is an achievement of your lifetime by the reckoning of most dwarfs, but yet the glittering white, purer than the freshest snow on the most isolated Mountaintop, stays in your mind. There is more still. [1AP]
-[X] [Difficult] The Mind of Things Pt. 4: [Cost: (10 -6) =4 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. The transfer of sensation, taste, touch, smell, sight and sound. Yorri has made it clear that at its core all of these senses are simply the transfer of information from your body to your mind. And just as he no doubt intended, it's gotten you thinking. Thinking about perhaps using your newfound knowledge and applying it in a more general fashion. Like perhaps sharing memory or thoughts without any chance of miscommunication. You doubt it will be that easy of course, but you have to start from somewhere. [1AP]
--[X] Prod Yorri: [Cost 1 prod] Gain 1d2+1 progress, can be taken multiple times. Master Yorri simply chuckles mysteriously at you. [9 Prods]
-[X] [Simple] Firebird's Feather: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. You've got a feather! Its an odd little piece of deep red flaming plumage that emanates a faint heat and sometimes combusts into flames that do no lasting damage to it. Transported at great expense, barely a dent in your coffers though, and with a few notes and tales about the animal in question that it came from. A simple enough task to figure out what this thing will do. There's a large body of work regarding the firebirds of the north already, and you can use that as a good starting point in your own research. [1 Research Action]
-[X] [Simple] A Wonderful Endeavour: [Cost: 24 actions] Minimum completion date end of Turn 52. Peerless Production will proc for general actions. You have begun pondering the meaning of legacy more often in your old age. To leave something behind to carry on long after you have entered the Halls of your Forebears. Your apprentices are your most important, yet the most limited in the grand scheme. The Runes and creations you create are less personal, but greater in scope and reach. This. This shall bridge that gap, take the best of both and make something beyond them. A place you can build and cultivate, one whose reach is so vast that the name Snorri Klausson will not merely be one of the Runelords of the Past, but a figure even the common Dwarf shall know many centuries, nay millennia, after you have died. This will define you in a way few other things have; more than the defeating of a great enemy, or the forging of a mighty item of power, it is to build something wondrous and in doing, irreversibly change everything forever. [0AP]
--[X] Petition the Hold: [Cost: 15 Kraka Drakk Favour] Gain 1 progress, can only be taken 3 times a turn and without action input. Begin speaking with the King, the various Guilds and Clans in Kraka Drakk to contribute to the Workshop's construction. [45 Drakk Favour]
-[X] [Simple] Lion Autopsy: [Cost: 3 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. Even in death, you must admit there is a fierce beauty to the animal. Several of its organs lie preserved in magically enchanted jars, put there by the Hunter who slew the massive feline and part of the order itself. Though without the use of Runes who's to say about their freshness. Regardless, it's still worth investigating. [1 Karstah Action]
--[X] Destructive Research: [Cost: 2 White Lion Corpses] Gain 1d2 progress, can be taken multiple times. You have enough corpses that you feel comfortable making a few unusable in the name of learning. [4 White Lion Corpses]
-[X] The Throng is Mustered: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Gain Bonus to Throng Rolls against Fimir, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Minor Chance for Casualties/Fatalities. The King of Kraka Drakk calls the Throng to war, lend the might of your Retainers to his cause. You have no real clue as to how developed the Fimir presence is, but given the corpse Rudil dragged back you have a feeling they've been here a while.
-[X] Scouting: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Gain minor bonus to Waystone rolls. Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Send out your Retainers, scour the Far North to see if there's some of these stones that Master Yorri Missed.
-[X] Waywarding: [Cost: 1 action or retainer action] Gain bonus to Waystone rolls and update on status of Waystones. Can be taken multiple times. There is no set time in which you or your retainers are meant to check on these stone monoliths, but doing so more regularly will mean that you're more likely to keep them safe and know their status.
-[X] ORDER: Write-in: 1x Frostbird Feather
 
I'm not sure what Deep Magic/To War is doing with Anoqeyan tbh. Two actions+Yorri takes it to 4 actions remaining, which is just about the most awkward action threshold possible for our traits wrt turn planning.

And you intend to find out how an entirely different foreign sense works by looking at it through a traditional Dwarven lense how?

If something is unknown and foreign, then by definition it won't be in the standard research path. Especially since Dwarfs don't have any experience with Windsight.

It would likely be in a side chain, like gromril chain for rune-metal, or elemental gronti for movement. It's just a matter of uncovering it.
 
[X] The March of Progress
- [X] March x1
- [X] Prod for Prod x1
- [X] [Difficult] Understanding the Armour x1
- [X] The Movement Of Things x2 + 9 Yorri Prods
- [X] The Throng is Mustered x1 retainer
- [X] Secure the Woods x1 retainer
- [X] Glimmering Steel x1 retainer
- [X] [Simple] A Wonderful Endeavour x1 heir
- [X] Petition the Hold x3 -45 favor
- [X] [Simple] Firebird's Feather x1 research
 
The fellowing is literally the same as Research Explosion, except it tosses the Movement of Things 1AP into Rune Metal part 5, and adds the Yorri prods from Movement to The Mind of Things instead.
Sadly i have to be against your plan action wise. Since just putting 1 ap into metal is a waste of ap and the only reason its not a waste in the other researches in the other plans is because of yori prods.
 
I'm not sure what Deep Magic/To War is doing with Anoqeyan tbh. Two actions+Yorri takes it to 4 actions remaining, which is just about the most awkward action threshold possible for our traits wrt turn planning.



It would likely be in a side chain, like gromril chain for rune-metal, or elemental gronti for movement. It's just a matter of uncovering it.
But with the Chainforger we had a rough idea what to start with and weren't toying with anything Dwarfs have pretty much no metaphysical connection to.

How do you start a side project when you have no idea how something works at an even basic level?

You're going into this pretty optimistic of our chances. Too optimistic if you ask me.
 
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