We don't need to persuade with Uplift ideology alone. Once other villages sees the benefits of economic Uplift in Leaf, if they don't all gain up on the powerful leaf like whirlpool, then they can adopt uplift themselves for the benefits like how the hidden villages were created
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Yes.
I vote to talk to Mari about this plan, please? something something lee = poison something something screaming in shootinfoot
And the Academy?
- Location
- United States
You're right that DnD mechanics map poorly onto MfD. However, isolating his entire point to these specific examples does it a disservice. Even though they might not be directly applicable to MfD, his main idea that massive, world-shaping actions have consequences that enormous combat power can't solve absolutely is.
If it helps, try reframing his tidal wave example as 'many innocent people will be caught in the crossfire of any action on the international scale' and the army example as 'publically using extermely powerful abilites will lead to becoming a target and being attacked in ways where said abilites can't save you.' It isn't quite what he's saying but it makes for a good big-picture of his specific examples that we can much more readily translate to MfD.
By definition, world-altering power will mess up a lot of things when it is used. As such, there are going to be unintended consequences, some of which punching won't be equipped to solve. Take one look at some of America's foreign....interventions....and you'll see that trying to fix global-scale problems (especially with military force) almost always creates even worse problems than were there originally. MfD has been pretty true to life in this regared as unintended consequences for our actions is practically the theme of MfD. This will become more of a problem as we grow in power and start tackling the extremely complicated issues at the core of the Elemental Nations, especially if we take drastic, world-changing actions to do so.
Even in the might-make-right world of MfD, combat power does not make all problems trivially easy to solve. Despite what Gōketsu Mari Teaching Number Sixty-One implies, there are plenty of situations where certain forms of power are completely useless. You can't outpunch a refugee crisis. You can utilize your punching power to marshall resources and pressure world leaders into providing asylum, but that's not the same thing. Sure, one could argue that this is technically using combat abilites, but the main point here is that even with S-Rank combat stats, there will still be challenging problems that require creative thinking to solve. Some problems can't even be solved at all. Despite being the most powerful ninja we've seen in-story and having the full loyalty and support of a good chunk of Elemental Nation's S-Rank population, Pain still couldn't stop everyone in the world from suffering. It wasn't a problem that his raw power could solve directly so he was forced to think of an extremely creative "solution," which itself ended up being too challenging for even he to solve.
hmmm this definitely got away from me.....let's see
TL;DR Even S-Rank power doesn't render all problems trivial, especially the complicated and societal-scale problems facing Uplift. It's so easy to create devestating unintended consequences when you work at that scale, many of which will be the aforementioned kinds of problems that we can't punch away. In other words, we need massive firepower to start truly fixing things, but by no means does that make it an easy task.
I apologise for the poor organization and minor incoherence (I ran out of spoons while writing this). Feel free to stop by while I'm in VC later this week if you want to have a more eloquent chat on the subject.
- Location
- USA
Great feedback as usual, added.
I am pretty sure Hazo knows when it's dangerous or not since he stop using techniques. It's not necessary for our purpose to get the same count every time just that we can see clear trends between different techniques.
- Location
- Yes.
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I mean...
[X] Action Plan: Steady Progression
If possible, could you put the "check with Mari" part to the the very beginning of the plan? It'll help with edge cases where stuff we wouldn't expect to cause issues end up causing issues, in a way that talking to Mari beforehand would prevent.
- Location
- USA
I'd also like to avoid mentioning that we're going to Kei and Tenten's wedding b/c I don't want to rub salt in the wound. Preference for how to express that?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Paperclipped mind asking Asuma to help pay for a dog to go to toad territory so we can participate in future zoo rushes once healed
[X] Action Plan: Steady Progression
[X] Action Plan: Steady Progression
[X] Lore Update: Akane and Snowflake date
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We already asked around for this and no one was interested. I believe @eaglejarl mentioned Bolivia?
I am personally ok with where it is
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Note that the chakra costs given in the rules are averages and approximations -- cf the fact that the summoning costs for your dogs and pangolins don't precisely match what's in the chart. "Substitution costs 14 CP" is an average, and one that we normally don't bother to track in updates because it generally doesn't matter in an engagement as short as most ninja fights. When you're trying to study the precise details of chakra then it matters very much and you start to see this sort of variation.
It's been a long time since we said this, so I probably should have explicitly pointed it out at the bottom of the update, but at least it's here now.
Clearly chakra was being extra trollish on this test and required much less chakra per MEW cast than it normally demands.
I mean, if y'all had given him a few more hours...
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- UK
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- He/Him
The thing is... in the MfDverse, all forms of power derive from the ability to punch people. If your punching is good enough, then the power-holders of the world bow down to you and suddenly you have all of humanity's resources to throw at any problem you have. Now add epic-level sealing to deal with any problem where the limitations stem from the laws of physics.
At this point, the only obstacle to Uplift is getting the ground-level population to believe in it so you don't have to keep babysitting humanity. And that would be an interesting problem if you were constrained by time, power, or resources, but you're not. Unless the quest shifts to a time scale where maximum lifespan becomes an issue and you fail at necromancy, immortality biosealing, and any other possible solutions, victory is just a matter of iterative testing.
Edit: It should also be noted that Pain explicitly rejected the world domination model that Hazō is pursuing. We don't know how he would have fared if he'd decided to pursue it instead of the ritual.
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- Location
- The Void
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- She/Her
Yes which is why we are having Asuma who has all the resources that a major nation state has to finance the deal. Frankly if he's unwilling to make a deal he's worthless as a leader
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- He/Him
If the cost exceeds what Hazou actually brings to the table, then it makes perfect sense to not finance the deal. And the Dogs don't seem to have many material needs anyways, most of them seem pretty content and just want to experience adventure or cool stories - sitting around in enemy territory hundreds of miles from home doesn't seem to count for them.
Glad to hear killing all the gods, golems, eldritch monsters, and Sages of the Sixth Path will be an easy win! /s
- Location
- UK
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- He/Him
By the time you're good enough at punching and sealing, sure. If a god has Punching 500 and you have Punching 1000, and Sealing 1000 to take care of its unquantifiable unique powers...
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well we should at least ask him to! He was willing to pay for 50 summoning contracts from everyone else. He should at least pony up a little to get another summoner there. And if there isn't a dog that will go see if we can get a toad to head over to dog territory
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- He/Him
I suppose we'll have to wait and see if they try to stop us or join us...
- Location
- how about no
@Paperclipped if you add in a section to have Hazou read some history and strategy books I'll vote for your plan. I consider that reading essential for our medium term survival and all long term schemes, not just my inclination to share FOOM sooner rather than later.
I'm a bit apprehensive about meeting publicly with Lee because Mari considers him political poison and I'm inclined to agree based on his... mannerisms we've seen ourselves. Poison isn't always dangerous but we need to handle interacting with him carefully or we risk becoming marginalized by association, fairly or not. The court of public opinion is fickle but it judges in absolutes and loathes irreverent, socially disruptive provocateurs.
Replies for all of the posts quoting me will be in chronological order and separate for neatness's sake. However, I wanted to participate in the planning process while I had a moment since the thread can move so quickly.
I'm a bit apprehensive about meeting publicly with Lee because Mari considers him political poison and I'm inclined to agree based on his... mannerisms we've seen ourselves. Poison isn't always dangerous but we need to handle interacting with him carefully or we risk becoming marginalized by association, fairly or not. The court of public opinion is fickle but it judges in absolutes and loathes irreverent, socially disruptive provocateurs.
Replies for all of the posts quoting me will be in chronological order and separate for neatness's sake. However, I wanted to participate in the planning process while I had a moment since the thread can move so quickly.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I know what you mean, but given the server's dedicated meme channel, I can't help imagining Hazō trying to spread Uplift through memes in the colloquial Internet sense, and it's both glorious and horrifying.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
"No no, metaphorically, the ideas metaphorically infect host brains and metaphorically compel them to spread the idea to the next host. It's not chakra magic or lupchanzen or eldritch Arachnid jutsu or anything, the ideas are just inherently good at spreading and put the explosive tag down Kagome I didn't look at any of Orochimaru's seals please I swear this isn't crazy."
- Location
- USA
[X] Interlude: Team Downfall
Going on a thousand mile journey to be the Dog ambassador to the Seventh Path United Clans sounds like an adventure to me. I bet lots of other clans have stories to tell. Might be worth playing up that angle. We're probably going to need to win social combat to convince someone, so that's going to have to wait until Hazou isn't a fucking mess.