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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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Habstab said:
I mean, we already do tall to Shego every so often in-universe. It's how we got her as our +1 for the Gala. I imagine that preforming the Shego action will just make it so we have an official way to contact her, along with us being able to spend actions so we can ask her for help with something
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This has been confirmed by the GM as not being the same thing. What we do is currently do are the usual monthly updates about her brother, giving us something of a personal relationship with Shego. What this action does is open up formal relations between DEI and Drakktech, which allows us to work on research jointly or collaborate on an issue. In terms of research, we do have combat relevant tech from the Gala that would be good to acquire, and in terms of collaboration, well, I imagine Shego has more experience with organizing PMCs and the like (since she's lacking massive Normbot swarms), so we can probably get some input on how to how to make ours more efficient (thus helping lower the DC on the action which gates our second Martial action).

As for a collaboration vs Toffee, that would be something we pursue next turn, after we have opened formal relations. At that point, we'd have completed the Investigate Toffee action, and would have that info available.
 
QTesseract said:
I don't know about her turning on us, but right now, we only have one good diplo hero available. As such, spending our second action on Shego is a free sucess, whereas something like recruiting Kitsune gives us a solid chance to fail even with XP. Next turn, we'll have bought out Lee Industries, so we'll have a second real diplo hero to assign to actions. Reaching out to Shego with them will be more overkill, and unless their stars are inflated they should be able to do recruitments with no issue.

On the other hand, if Kitsune is the person mentioned in the Tarot Cards, it would behoove us to reach out in the next couple of turns.
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I don't want to gamble on actually getting Lee, and even if we do get him we don't know his actual diplo score. Another turn without a decent Hero unit in Occult is another turn where our Occult action is a total crapshoot, which is less than ideal. Better to fix the hole now and go for the freebies later.

This would be much easier to argue if the plan had Mirage on recruitment and put Wile E. on Insuricare like I asked, but people are convinced a silver bullet against Doom is on the ACME archives so C'est la vie.
TheGleeman said:
What´s better to have for combating a genocidal alien invasor?

- One single Hero Unit whose skill set might help

or

- one big and strong allied faction that will probably be pretty diverse in talents?

To me an easy choice in terms of prep work
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It's not a choice of one or the other, you have to explain to me why we must contact Shego this turn. Especially since those "varied talents" don't actually cover our biggest deficiency, which is Occult...
Rivenscryr said:
I don't think its a matter of Shego necessarily turning against us, as much us wanting to actually have the opportunity to begin collaboration/joint research with Drakktech, which as I remind you, still has interesting tech from the Gala, like Compact Rocketry and the Omnidroid Armor. Other than that, she's our closest neighbor, definitely has a large force of capes available to her - something that may be useful if Toffee comes our way, and has a longstanding relationship with Sky High. If we want to be able to say, have a booth at career day at Sky High and such, it would be best to have formally talked to Shego, so we're not seen as poaching.
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I don't really care about the shiny tech, and none of that answers the question, "why do people think Shego will turn on us if we don't contact her this turn?" Seriously, none of those things would benefit from an extra turn when we don't even have any good information on Toffee right now. It's hard to propose a base of cooperation if we don't have that first.
 
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[X] Plan: I Have the Honor to be Your Most Benevolent Overlord, H. Doof

Reach out to Shego is the big thing to me, I'm not sure what it gets us but we keep holding off on it when it's practically guaranteed, especially since recruiting Kitsune isn't. It also might let us prevent an alliance between Shego and Toffee (even if that seems kind of unlikely). I'm mostly fine with either plan though.
 
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Nystical said:
Now that the QM has confirmed the only difference between

-[] Don't activate an Inator
and
-[] Activate an Inator

Is that if we choose to activate an Inator, we actually have a (slim) chance of getting something, instead of a 100% chance of getting nothing, would you be willing to change it? We won't suffer any negative side effects (the Candace paranoia point thing was a joke, and any inator we roll that goes 'poof' will be added back to the list to be rolled again later)
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Sure
 
BrainInAJar said:
I don't really care about the shiny tech, and none of that answers the question, "why do people think Shego will turn on us if we don't contact her this turn?" Seriously, none of those things would benefit from an extra turn when we don't even have any good information on Toffee right now. It's hard to propose a base of cooperation if we don't have that first.
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It is also remarkably hard to propose a basis for collaboration when your factions aren't even speaking to each other in a formal capacity. Remember that in order to get options to collaborate with Xanatos (formally, collaborate with, Xanatos Enterprises), we needed to Reach Out to him first. The same would be true of working with Shego - we need to have reached out to her before we explore a collaboration, and as said, by next turn, we'd have likely completed the Investigate Toffee action, and thus would have that info available.

As to your question of "why do people think Shego will turn on us if we don't contact her this turn" - well, if we don't reach out, and someone like Toffee does (presumably with an offer like the one he gave us), then she has no reason not to open relations with him, now does she? Something like that would make collaborating against him harder in the future...
 
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BrainInAJar said:
It's not a choice of one or the other, you have to explain to me why we must contact Shego this turn. Especially since those "varied talents" don't actually cover our biggest deficiency, which is Occult...
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...ever heard about "starting to gather allies EARLY"?

The earlier we got Shego on our side, the earlier we can consolidate our both forces in a *meaningful* way.

That´s Tactics/Diplomacy 101 for you.
 
My only concerns with delaying shego is we need to warn her about Toffee, talk to her about the drug ring we want to mess with, and maybe get started on that alliance thing we keep talking about.

My big worry next turn is talking to her and finding out they already said yes to the Toffee corn while we waited.
 
bigking321 said:
My only concerns with delaying shego is we need to warn her about Toffee, talk to her about the drug ring we want to mess with, and maybe get started on that alliance thing we keep talking about.

My big worry next turn is talking to her and finding out they already said yes to the Toffee corn while we waited.
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That's a very good point. If Toffee gets his tetherhooks into Shego and her resources, there's no telling what he'll be able to do. Plus, if we want to investigate the Middleton Drug Ring, we need to talk to Shego first just to be sure she's okay with us poking around.

And before you guys start wailing and say, "Oh, she's not gonna care," let me say this: that is not a proven fact. That is an assumption based off of one interaction with her. That's not necessarily grounds for a proper line of reasoning
 
QTesseract said:
That's not the deciding factor. Like I said in my post, my vote depends on the Xanadu quest composition.
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And just because the Xanadu team is *slightly different*, you guys are voting for a plan that has no realistic chance of winning?

...

I don´t have a response to that kind of reasoning anymore


bigking321 said:
My only concerns with delaying shego is we need to warn her about Toffee, talk to her about the drug ring we want to mess with, and maybe get started on that alliance thing we keep talking about.

My big worry next turn is talking to her and finding out they already said yes to the Toffee corn while we waited.
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mangawriter77 said:
That's a very good point. If Toffee gets his tetherhooks into Shego and her resources, there's no telling what he'll be able to do. Plus, if we want to investigate the Middleton Drug Ring, we need to talk to Shego first just to be sure she's okay with us poking around.

And before you guys start wailing and say, "Oh, she's not gonna care," let me say this: that is not a proven fact. That is an assumption based off of one interaction with her. That's not necessarily grounds for a proper line of reasoning
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Don´t bother with logic and reason, guys

Some people decided to throw any proper planning outta the window in exchange for one singular shiny thing and I find myself rapidly being depleted of cares to give by now
 
TheGleeman said:
And just because the Xanadu team is *slightly different*, you guys are voting for a plan that has no realistic chance of winning?

...

I don´t have a response to that kind of reasoning anymore





Don´t bother with logic and reason, guys

Some people decided to throw any proper planning outta the window in exchange for one singular shiny thing and I find myself rapidly being depleted of cares to give by now
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So basically people are voting for Lizzy just because? Even though she has negative diplomacy and unimpressive stats (excluding Learning)?
 
bigking321 said:
My only concerns with delaying shego is we need to warn her about Toffee, talk to her about the drug ring we want to mess with, and maybe get started on that alliance thing we keep talking about.

My big worry next turn is talking to her and finding out they already said yes to the Toffee corn while we waited.
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It's a valid enough concern, but I want to give her more credit than that. She'd scrutinize any deal that looked too good to be true. Toffee targeted Doof because he looked gullible. We can contact her next turn anyway to let her know Toffee is dangerous.

TheGleeman said:
And just because the Xanadu team is *slightly different*, you guys are voting for a plan that has no realistic chance of winning?

...

I don´t have a response to that kind of reasoning anymore





Don´t bother with logic and reason, guys

Some people decided to throw any proper planning outta the window in exchange for one singular shiny thing and I find myself rapidly being depleted of cares to give by now
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You're being pretty disrespectful, dude. Please dial it back a notch.
 
Rivenscryr said:
It is also remarkably hard to propose a basis for collaboration when your factions aren't even speaking to each other in a formal capacity. Remember that in order to get options to collaborate with Xanatos (formally, collaborate with, Xanatos Enterprises), we needed to Reach Out to him first. The same would be true of working with Shego - we need to have reached out to her before we explore a collaboration, and as said, by next turn, we'd have likely completed the Investigate Toffee action, and thus would have that info available.

As to your question of "why do people think Shego will turn on us if we don't contact her this turn" - well, if we don't reach out, and someone like Toffee does, then she has no reason not to open relations with him, now does she? This will make collaborating against him harder in the future.
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I'd like to actually complete the investigation first since no plan is immune to the whims of chance, and again, why Shego this turn? If Toffee talks to her to formally open a relationship, so what? She's not above betrayal, so it's not like this would impede her; a nice front could even be useful, really. I don't think Toffee is good enough to turn her against us in a single turn.
TheGleeman said:
...ever heard about "starting to gather allies EARLY"?

The earlier we got Shego on our side, the earlier we can consolidate our both forces in a *meaningful* way.

That´s Tactics/Diplomacy 101 for you.
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What are the actual benefits of contacting Shego a turn early? It's fine to talk principles or whatever, but we have to assess what's actually better here. Getting our Occult rolling a turn early is way more important than contacting Shego a turn early, simply because the more actions we complete in a category the more powerful the available options become. Occult has what we need to counter Toffee, and Shego does not. If it's just a question of pooling resources I don't see why we can't get it a turn later with basically the same effectiveness, while a turn of extra Occult actions can be difference of getting crucial research/protections in time and not doing so.
mangawriter77 said:
That's a very good point. If Toffee gets his tetherhooks into Shego and her resources, there's no telling what he'll be able to do. Plus, if we want to investigate the Middleton Drug Ring, we need to talk to Shego first just to be sure she's okay with us poking around.

And before you guys start wailing and say, "Oh, she's not gonna care," let me say this: that is not a proven fact. That is an assumption based off of one interaction with her. That's not necessarily grounds for a proper line of reasoning
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Daily reminder we do in fact directly employ her brother and that she does in fact meet up with us regularly to check up on him. Like, what the hell can Toffee do short of direct mind control here?
TheGleeman said:
And just because the Xanadu team is *slightly different*, you guys are voting for a plan that has no realistic chance of winning?

...

I don´t have a response to that kind of reasoning anymore





Don´t bother with logic and reason, guys

Some people decided to throw any proper planning outta the window in exchange for one singular shiny thing and I find myself rapidly being depleted of cares to give by now
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Man, what even is "proper planning"? Do you have some master plan against Toffee right now? We sure could use one. Have you tried actually engaging with the merits of your opposition? I haven't seen a lot of that from you, I will admit.
 
BrainInAJar said:
Daily reminder we do in fact directly employ her brother and that she does in fact meet up with us regularly to check up on him. Like, what the hell can Toffee do short of direct mind control here?
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Okay, I admit my argument about Shego and Toffee was flawed. My point for the drug ring still stands.

BrainInAJar said:
Man, what even is "proper planning"? Do you have some master plan against Toffee right now? We sure could use one. Have you tried actually engaging with the merits of your opposition? I haven't seen a lot of that from you, I will admit.
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Okay, dude? Chill. You're being just as rude as he is with talk like that. Let's all just calm down and talk about this rationally
 
Habstab said:
I mean, we already do tall to Shego every so often in-universe. It's how we got her as our +1 for the Gala. I imagine that preforming the Shego action will just make it so we have an official way to contact her, along with us being able to spend actions so we can ask her for help with something... whoch isn't something I see us doing for the foreseeable future. Like... what can we ask her to help us with within the next few turns? Fighting Doom? Not unless we want some of the other Kings and the US Gov to, basically, declare war on us, while also breaking the Masquerade. Toffee? We don't actually have any evidence, besides Janna's words, that Toffee is... well, anything but a business lizardman. So it's doubtful that we'll be able to convince her to help us bash down Toffee's doors. Plus... against Toffee, who can just regenerate anything she does to him... she'll undoubtedly act more like a meatshield if she fights him, while our Occult heroes try to find a way to stop him/kill him.

So, really, the only reason we would need to do the Shego Diplo action anytime soon unless either Doom tries to ally with her, or we need a meatshield to punch things.
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I don't agree with this at all. Just having Shego, another King, publicly denouncing Doom for his racism against Toons while at the same time supporting Supers (aka, the same thing he did to us) would help us a lot against Doom. Another idea would be to just collaborate with her in further SRA actions which would make it impossible for Doom to spill bullshit on us for that since it'd mean attacking Shego at the same time.

Another thing she can probably do for us it to lend us muscle for our Quests, kind of like the Dickeens.

However, more important than this, I think, it's to have allies who we can trust for when shit hits the fan (which would be sometime this year...), instead of just trying to ally with her just the turn before bad things happens.

An example of something similar, in a sense, was us trying to bring her to the auction, it was something we wanted but we just couldn't do because we just hadn't gotten in contact with her. Now imagine us trying to get help from her when the bad thing happens but just being unable to because we've refused to contact her again and again.
 
TheGleeman said:
And just because the Xanadu team is *slightly different*, you guys are voting for a plan that has no realistic chance of winning?

...

I don´t have a response to that kind of reasoning anymore
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Yes? I think it's an important change to both the national action and the quest, that will lead to better results, for reasons i outlined at length. As a voter, my main method for encouraging people to better their plans is my vote; as an incentive to do so (or convince me that the current version is better, thus outlining their logic and allowing me to make a better informed decision), I offer my vote. This is basic negotiation. @Rivenscryr has done so, and thus I'm responding by giving them my vote, like I promised. If I don't do that, not only do I undercut my chances of getting the better outcome, I also weaken my bargaining position in the future, and thus my ability to improve votes or get changes I want. In the interests of civilty, I'll kindly ignore the rest of your post.
mangawriter77 said:
So basically people are voting for Lizzy just because? Even though she has negative diplomacy and unimpressive stats (excluding Learning)?
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I outline my reasoning extensively here, but the tl;dr in terms of mechanics, since that seems to be your primary objection, is that most of the stats don't matter except for the leader. Von Drake only adds diplomacy (+2 relative to Max) and learning, all of their other stats are wasted. Lizzie gives stewardship, learning, and out of combat martial. Lizzie's diplomacy for martial is not really a factor for me because I consider the results I want in Xanadu more likely to hinge on the harder rolls, which we can't pass for diplomacy anyway but have a good chance on passing with martial that increases with every bonus we add.
 
QTesseract said:
I outline my resoning extensively here, but the tl;dr in terms of mechanics, since that seems to be your primary objection, is that most of the stats don't matter except for the leader. Von Drake only adds diplomacy (+2 relative to max) and learning, all of their other stats are wasted. Lizzie gives stewardship, learning, and out of combat martial. Lizzie's diplomacy for martial is not really a factor for me because I consider the results I want in Xanadu more likely to hinge on the harder rolls, which we can't pass for diplomacy anyway but have a good chance on passing with martial that increases with every bonus we add.
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Your point is very good and convincing. But at this rate? It's not gonna do much. Even if I did switch, Ludivine would still go on the Xanadu quest. So, there's not much I can do. Sorry
 
[X] Plan: Anti-Toffee Questosaurus

There is too much to do and too much of it feels important to do now. It feels like there's so much data that making an intelligent, informed choice is near impossible. Not to mention we are currently being actively blocked from the next tier of actions by some really nastily high numbers.

The fact that there are so many time sensitive things going on in both the background and the foreground absolutely does not help things in the slightest. It's making it so that we have to choose between getting useful stuff, avoid getting stabbed in the foot, stopping mega-threats, or making progress. It also makes it impossible to focus down our ever-expanding field of problems because too many of the clocks are not lined up for us to take a shot at accurately.

Is. Is this the normal state of how these quests run?
 
weredrago2 said:
You're being pretty disrespectful, dude. Please dial it back a notch.
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I tried being respectful.

I tried explaining my reasoning.

I tried not getting worked up over this.

*I failed with all three and am simply flabbergasted about how little some people seem to care about giving us an actual fighting chance against another King*


Shade31415 said:
Look, I get that you disagree with this, but could you please not imply that some of us are being completely unreasonable about this?
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Well, I am sorry, but I´ve had little reason to believe the opposite on the matter.

BrainInAJar said:
Man, what even is "proper planning"? Do you have some master plan against Toffee right now? We sure could use one. Have you tried actually engaging with the merits of your opposition? I haven't seen a lot of that from you, I will admit.
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I don´t have a meticulously-crafted 100 step, no...but "team up with Shego against Toffee and consolidate our forces" is at least a *Framework* of a plan that we can build up upon.
 
mangawriter77 said:
Your point is very good and convincing. But at this rate? It's not gonna do much. Even if I did switch, Ludivine would still go on the Xanadu quest. So, there's not much I can do. Sorry
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Yeah, I get it. I was hoping to convince the other plan to change, but that doesn't seem to be actively curated at the moment, so that's unlikely to get anywhere. For what it's worth, if you make the swap I'll switch over and start advocating for this, and judging by the votes so will a few others, but I can't offer any guarentee that it'll be enough to win.
 
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