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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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You know, thinking about it IC Snorri basically just have his first 2 apprentices, of the quest, the pass after getting them to help the Hold. Now, on the decade before they graduate he's going to ensure they don't get a big head about it.

They're journeyman now? They helped make banners and pick axes to dig the underway and that's what got Snorri to nod and say they were ready? Alright. Now they can see how a Runelord does things and just how far they still have to go.
 
Eh whatever sure ill put in the option though the roll will have a noticeable negative modifier. Lord knows my dice are basically binary on these kinds of rolls. :^v

Considering though, that things are becoming more dangerous, there is a possibility that there may well be Foundlings whose nearest living relatives are too far from Kraka Drak to actually claim them, due to the difficulties of travel or the chaos of continual Chaos Incursions on places like Karaz Ungor. Would you consider modifying the rolls in the event things like an influx of refugees from other Northern holds and settlements, or a Great battle that saw the loss of many runesmiths somewhere in the Karaz Angkor recently occured? It's quite possible that in the event a potential candidate's nearest possible Masters are too far away from Karaz Drak in these dangerous times to be safely adopted within a reasonable time, that Snorri might be asked if he could step in as the leading Runelord in Kraka Drak.

Also, since there were quite a few members in Snorri's clan that passed the test for Runesmith potential during the turn where we saw Snerra's coming of age, can Snorri look to his clan for prospects, even if they might not be at the level of our first three apprentices in terms of raw ability? I think the basic idea of this request, is that a portion of the thread wants to continue the chain of older apprentices mentoring younger apprentices right through Snerra in order to establish a tradition of Apprentices learning what it's like to teach others just before graduation as one of their final courses, for the good of Kraka Drak and the Karaz Ankor of course (for whom acceptable Runesmiths are always in short supply). Snorri doesn't necessarily need to look for foundlings - he could take one from his wider clan.

On another topic, while the idea of crafting weapons or armor for our graduating Journeyman goes against cultural appropriateness, what about crafting a Masterwork artifact as a challenge for our apprentices to study, be inspired by, improve upon and hopefully surpass on their Journeys, tailored to their specialties - like a complex talisman, before they fully leave the North?

P.s: What happens to Apprentice Runesmiths if their master falls in battle? Are they able to seek another master, and is Snorri willing to considering taking in Apprentice Runesmiths with promise whose masters have fallen in battle? If the ones who have a better familial claim to adopting said apprentice is unable to, for any number of reasons, such as being busy on campaign with the Grand Throng, physical distance (the Apprentice isn't getting to the master for one or two decades in these chaotic times), , the distant prospective master is simply uncontactable, or simply a reluctance to take an apprentice at this time (because of voluntary seclusion in his workshop to work on a breakthrough)?
 
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Regarding the Golem, I think any weapons we make for it, should be usable by champions of the Throng as well. That way, even if we aren't using the Golem directly the actions we invested into arming it are still paying off. If we make multiple weapons/weapon combos, even better!
 
Thinking about timelines, whatever we make with the Greedy Troll's Heart might be most useful for the period after the Vortex is created when the surface of Norsca would otherwise be full of horrible gribblies.

Depending on how things go we might get the opportunity to acquire more Rank 5 ingredients. Given that part of the benefits of the heart is to enhance other runes, this could produce strong synergistic effects if they're all applied to the same item.

Of course, this may require that Snorri personally enters combat, but I could well see this happening if the King leads the Hold's Throng to join up with Grimnir.

In light of this, I think we might want to consider upgrading Snorri's personal equipment.
 
Regarding the Golem, I think any weapons we make for it, should be usable by champions of the Throng as well. That way, even if we aren't using the Golem directly the actions we invested into arming it are still paying off. If we make multiple weapons/weapon combos, even better!
Kind of hard to do considering golems tend to be about the size of ogres or bigger.
 
Kind of hard to do considering golems tend to be about the size of ogres or bigger.
Reading the thread, I thought they were anything from the size of average dwarfs to castle walls. Oh well, thank you for pointing that out!


EDIT: Also, question for the group. At this point we have done a few inter-clan large works in the Hold. How common is something like that? I mean like making the Foundry Clan independent, Armed in Arms making that informal association of several smiths, etc. Our Hold isn't even 2 centeries old, but from the sounds of things might be one of the most...clan blended of the North? Just wondering!
 
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In relation to the size of the golem it should not be more than 10 meters. And it should be made of stone, with gromil / adamant armor plates. Otherwise it will be too expensive and too difficult. Otherwise we would have to almost all of our gromil in stock and use that up in the mine.

I mean between a gigantic gromil/adamant golem and a gromil gate .... that's quite a lot !!!
 
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If we're not making the interior of the golem from gromril or adamant, we should probably see if we can make it from Silver wutroth. Much lighter so the golem can be faster and less likely to get bogged down, more flexible so less likely to shatter from blunt impacts transmitted through the armour, and also much more likely to be possible to regenerate. The adamant armour should be hard enough to render the hardness of the rest of the material a secondary factor.

There may also be some benefits from making the golem from at least formerly living material.
 
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I'm still of the opinion that the best use of a creation that will last "till the end of the world" is as some sort of repository of runecrafting knowledge.
 
I'm still of the opinion that the best use of a creation that will last "till the end of the world" is as some sort of repository of runecrafting knowledge.
If we wanted a repository of knowledge we'd write a book and safeguard it in Karaz-a-karak, because if it falls then it's the end of dwarves as a civilization, making our one-of-a-kind one-time-only-creation Golem the equivalent of a book is a massive goddamn waste
 
I'm still of the opinion that the best use of a creation that will last "till the end of the world" is as some sort of repository of runecrafting knowledge.
If we actually manage to create a sentient golem, we can teach it. It may not be able to actually perform runecraft, but it would certainly be able to tell those secrets to others in the event of a disaster.
 
If we wanted a repository of knowledge we'd write a book and safeguard it in Karaz-a-karak, because if it falls then it's the end of dwarves as a civilization, making our one-of-a-kind one-time-only-creation Golem the equivalent of a book is a massive goddamn waste

Anyone can read a book though.

Books can be stolen or destroyed.

A golem built to LAST, that happens to also contain records and trade secrets is a lot harder to get rid of by skaven and the like.

I'm not saying this should be it's only function, just that it should be A function.
 
Not sure if I saw this in the golem talk, but depending on how the master rune for making adamant turns out we may want that for some of the golem equipment. Or we wait until we learn how to get 2 master runes into a combo.
 
the killing power isnt in question here, its a question of skill. So like, if it hits, it likely hurts a lot, but the question is will it ever hit something built entirely for the purpose of battle?
Which depends on what equipment we can give it I figure.

Its sort of the only option we have in terms of giving it "skill". Give it good equipment.
Oh that's too bad. Good reason to poke the movement of things research I guess. I figured it'd be able interface with the commander at least. Oh well. Maybe another thing for the pile, and it doesn't involve the golem itself so *waves hand* something for later.

Just give it Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Parrying, Rune of Striking on its axe/hammer/whatever I guess.
Using the Rune of Skill is also a possibility. That'll give it the weapon skill it needs. ((A Master Rune of Swiftness plus 2 Runes of Skill would be hilarious. If it weren't for the fact that that one seems to have been an Elf-Dwarf cooperation. But just imagine it. A blazingly fast golem! I guess it'll just have to be Runes of Speed then, if you want Speedy the Wonder Golem...))

... Hmm... I wonder if we can transplant skill-boosting runes to a Talisman or a Banner? And thus somehow create a Banner that'll make everybody around it fight like Grimnir himself. Or a Talisman that will make somebody an excellent fighter. Like a Helmet that will give everyone around the wielder, skill equal to said wielder.
Unless we can finagle lasers, or a bigass weapon with a Master Rune of Flight, it'd be the only way to get a golem a ranged weapon.
...huh... you know I actually can't see any reason why we couldn't. Stick a Master Rune of Flight, Rune of Impact, Rune of Fire or two runes of fire on a giant mace and voila. Pseudo-meteor.
Hmm... we could just give it a sized-up crossbow? Or just outright give it a Bolt Thrower configured for its use.

Or just, like... give it a Great Big Sack O' Coal. It will literally throw rocks at the enemy. Huge rocks.

Not that I'm against a magical flying hammer of course... >: )
But fire-breathing bigass golem, that's...cool.
It really really is. Or bigass laser fired as a mouth beam, which might be more plausible since we have a research path that might lead to that and it is the sort of thing that might be achievable as a piece of equipment, instead of the golem's body itself.
It really is! A fire or frost themed golem from Kraka Drakk... I mean, I think it was a frost dragon that was killed here right? Plus this is the north, with so much snow and ice... Plus Ymir is a frost giant. So yeah. It'd be cool to be able to throw in ice or fire-breathing themes.
 
The "power armor" question keeps on geting brought up.

I'm against using the Greedy heart to do something like that because adding a Pilot adds a structural vulnerability, as well as an "off switch".

However, it's not an idea that is without merit and deserves some more chewing. Would building piloted ogre sized constructs be useful for the dwarfs? Does putting Rune of Animation on Armor augment the wearer like an exoskeleton?
 
However, it's not an idea that is without merit and deserves some more chewing. Would building piloted ogre sized constructs be useful for the dwarfs? Does putting Rune of Animation on Armor augment the wearer like an exoskeleton?
Possibly, but we probably wouldn't need the rare materials for that.
Anyone can read a book though.

Books can be stolen or destroyed.

A golem built to LAST, that happens to also contain records and trade secrets is a lot harder to get rid of by skaven and the like.

I'm not saying this should be it's only function, just that it should be A function.
The durability of books was never the problem. Runesmiths barely write anything down to begin with, and then only what they need to remind themselves of works in progress. Mystery Cults just plain don't, not even in secret sanctums, unless in code.

Hell, even between master and former-apprentice-turned-master the secrets remain.
 
The "power armor" question keeps on geting brought up.

I'm against using the Greedy heart to do something like that because adding a Pilot adds a structural vulnerability, as well as an "off switch".

However, it's not an idea that is without merit and deserves some more chewing. Would building piloted ogre sized constructs be useful for the dwarfs? Does putting Rune of Animation on Armor augment the wearer like an exoskeleton?

Incapacitating, killing, or simply distracting the Runesmith that's directing it would seem to be a much greater vulnerability and a much squishier off-switch.
 
The durability of books was never the problem. Runesmiths barely write anything down to begin with, and then only what they need to remind themselves of works in progress. Mystery Cults just plain don't, not even in secret sanctums, unless in code.

Hell, even between master and former-apprentice-turned-master the secrets remain.

The one example I can find, the instructions for the rune that was on the Axe of Dargo, was recorded in Karak Kadrin on sheets of gromril, so presumably it's not completely unknown.

Plus the fact that the Runesmith most likely needs to breathe, hear and see out of the thing would mean having to add gaps in the armor.

Runes and more runes to the rescue. A runesmith controlling a golem from the outside has the challenge that they may not be able to see what the golem is doing or its tactical situation as well.
 
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