Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
The one example I can find, the instructions for the rune that was on the Axe of Dargo, was recorded in Karak Kadrin on sheets of gromril, so presumably it's not completely unknown.



Runes and more runes to the rescue.
At the very least, they'd still need a hatch of some sort to climb into and out of it, which would mean a weak spot that could be avoided if you just made a golem. Plus you could then use the rune slots to make it killier to someone other than the pilot.
 
My assumptions:
- Not talking about the Master Rune version, so at best we're talking something that needs piloting or has some pre programmed moves
- Non-runesmith dwarfs can pilot it
- "Follow the pilot's moves" is a valid instruction.

With those assumptions, we could hypothetically create a new unit that is more heavily armed and armored, geared towards fighting things that dwarfs would have trouble against: troll sized opponents.
 
[Non Canon]: Imperial Historian Torbold Twodinger's Lecture on the Nature of Dwarfen Gift Giving
Transcribed Lectures from the University of Altdorf on Dwarfs and Gift Giving

As this class has progressed through our time together, we have discussed a myriad of ways that Dwarven and Empire cultures diverge, connect, and contrast. The importance of Oaths, Promises, and Grudges being prominent examples of differences while the vital importance of heroes and stories being an area where the cultures connect. This lecture will focus on a unique confluence of these two aspects of Dwarven culture in a way that is impossible to emulate in the Empire. An aspect of Dwarven culture that can be said to be the root of the Empire itself. I speak, of course, of the tradition of gift-giving in the Dwarven Empire.

Now, before we begin our discussion on such an important part of Dwarven culture, we must refresh ourselves as to some characteristics of culture itself. Cultures come from a way of doing things, and in that vein, it is typically produced over long years of thought and tradition typically assumed to be normal by a group of people. To pinpoint a specific person as the reason behind a cultural phenomenon is typically as difficult as it is fruitless, for the progenitor of the tradition is not nearly as important as the reason behind the tradition. The "why" it is done. For Dwarves and their culture of gift-giving, however, that is not the case. For the dwarf who begat the tradition is well known and continues his work in the North; High Runelord Snorri Kluasson, the Gift-Giver, is ascribed to be a 7,000-year-old dwarf who it is said walked alongside the dwarven Ancestor Gods.

While it seems completely implausible that any mortal could live for such a stretch of time, and in my professional opinion it is most likely a series of successive dwarves taking up the mantle of Snorri Kluasson, the impact of such an iconic cultural figure having the name "Gift-Giver" should not be ignored. From the founding of the Dwarven Empire, gift-giving has had a unique niche within the eternal balancing of scales that Dwarves undertake. No grudge is unpaid and no assistance is left uncompensated. So how, then, can one balance the scales of a gift which you can not repay back? This is a conundrum that the Dwarves have answered through ingenious means. If a dwarf is given a gift that they have no means of repaying back, then that dwarf will pass along their good fortune to others less fortunate than themselves. It is in this way that a gift from a Dwarven King to a thane or other noble will send a cascade of gifts down throughout the society of the Karak until, eventually, children are given gifts who are incapable of giving anything to someone lower than them on the hierarchy.

It is here that the second part of the gift-giving tradition is made apparent, the "Recognition of Generosity." For while a child cannot repay the gift he received, an adult with a trade certainly can. As such, when a dwarven child finally comes of age and begins his trade he begins work on a piece that he will present to his clan in recognition of their generosity. All such pieces are collected and then celebrated once a year, if able, by members of the clan in the Karak. This celebration is an acknowledgment that while all work should be fairly compensated, a clan grows stronger through the generosity of their members, of supporting the individuals in the clan to fully realize their gifts and strengths, even if those members are unable to repay the generosity of the clan at the moment. It is in this way that the Dwarves are able to square away their desire to not be indebted to another and their tradition of gift-giving.

How then does this culture of gift-giving become the root of the Empire itself? For the Empire does not have a great culture of gift-giving, especially given the oftentimes fractured Elector Counts of the Empire. The Empire does, however, owe its existence to the gifting of Ghal Maraz to the Great Sigmar by the Dwarven High-King. And if it was only the gifting of Ghal Maraz, then perhaps there would be no Empire today, for as mighty a hammer as Ghal Maraz is, it is not able to pound political alliances or unity out of fractured man. No, the Dwarven High-King seemed to find inspiration from the Gift-Giver in his gifts to Great Sigmar. For with Ghal Maraz came the twelve Runefangs, and with all of these weapons came the implication of rulership. For while Sigmar was certainly equal to Ghal Maraz, were the twelve tribal rulers equal to the Runefangs? Unlikely. But by being gifted these great weapons, the twelve rulers could unite their people and begin to actually rule under Sigmar. Just as legend holds that Snorri Klausson gave a weapon and kingship to the first kings of Karak Drakk, so too did the High-King give weapons and rulerships to Sigmar and his followers.

The High-King of the Dwarves knew, as his culture had engrained into him to know, that such generosity to the leader of men would repay not only the High-King but the entire Karak Anzor. And over the years the High-King's generosity has paid out, for even though the Greenskins threaten the Dwarves from the South and the East, and Chaos threatens from the North, the Dwarves have secured a respite from the West. A bulwark of assuredness that despite how bleak the world may be, they are not alone in facing the threats.
 
At the very least, they'd still need a hatch of some sort to climb into and out of it, which would mean a weak spot that could be avoided if you just made a golem. Plus you could then use the rune slots to make it killier to someone other than the pilot.

It depends. You could have a setup where you, for example, take the head off and then reattach it, with mountings deeper in the chest, with there being no hatch. If you want a neck that rotates, you're going to need a separation point there anyway.
 
Hello I am awake now,

Transcribed Lectures from the University of Altdorf on Dwarfs and Gift Giving
OOOOH yay another omake.

I can only give it non canon because what it talks about require major cultural shifts to occur and that Snorri be the one to implement them. I dont think those shifts are implausible just not happened yet if at all. :^) +5 to an RER
Considering though, that things are becoming more dangerous, there is a possibility that there may well be Foundlings whose nearest living relatives are too far from Kraka Drak to actually claim them, due to the difficulties of travel or the chaos of continual Chaos Incursions on places like Karaz Ungor. Would you consider modifying the rolls in the event things like an influx of refugees from other Northern holds and settlements, or a Great battle that saw the loss of many runesmiths somewhere in the Karaz Angkor recently occured? It's quite possible that in the event a potential candidate's nearest possible Masters are too far away from Karaz Drak in these dangerous times to be safely adopted within a reasonable time, that Snorri might be asked if he could step in as the leading Runelord in Kraka Drak.

Also, since there were quite a few members in Snorri's clan that passed the test for Runesmith potential during the turn where we saw Snerra's coming of age, can Snorri look to his clan for prospects, even if they might not be at the level of our first three apprentices in terms of raw ability? I think the basic idea of this request, is that a portion of the thread wants to continue the chain of older apprentices mentoring younger apprentices right through Snerra in order to establish a tradition of Apprentices learning what it's like to teach others just before graduation as one of their final courses, for the good of Kraka Drak and the Karaz Ankor of course (for whom acceptable Runesmiths are always in short supply). Snorri doesn't necessarily need to look for foundlings - he could take one from his wider clan.

On another topic, while the idea of crafting weapons or armor for our graduating Journeyman goes against cultural appropriateness, what about crafting a Masterwork artifact as a challenge for our apprentices to study, be inspired by, improve upon and hopefully surpass on their Journeys, tailored to their specialties - like a complex talisman, before they fully leave the North?

P.s: What happens to Apprentice Runesmiths if their master falls in battle? Are they able to seek another master, and is Snorri willing to considering taking in Apprentice Runesmiths with promise whose masters have fallen in battle? If the ones who have a better familial claim to adopting said apprentice is unable to, for any number of reasons, such as being busy on campaign with the Grand Throng, physical distance (the Apprentice isn't getting to the master for one or two decades in these chaotic times), , the distant prospective master is simply uncontactable, or simply a reluctance to take an apprentice at this time (because of voluntary seclusion in his workshop to work on a breakthrough)?
On the issue of modifying the roll, you have foundlings of Clans that are related to the ones that do exist in the north. In the event that occurs, Runesmith Clans do their best accommodate these, in their eyes, far-flung relatives and host them until such a time family from their clan can get them. There's a lot of coordination and work between the Runesmith Clans almost paradoxically different to the distinct lack of it between Runesmiths themselves. But yes in the event of such a major movement of refugees and loss of life even the prodigious record keeping of the dawi may falter. So in short yeah, I do consider such things in the event of a roll, but the Runesmiths aren't unused to this level of loss, it takes way more to cause a breakdown of these systems....which did happen in OTL so :^V

Snorri certainly could, its actually surprising how many had the gift, but of the dwarfs from that specific batch they ended up getting apprenticed other masters. Winterhearth's dearth of Runesmiths compared to the more closely related clans often means their youth are taken in by those of more distant relation. But in short yeah Snorri CAN look into his own clan for apprentices, the 6 with the talent was higher than average tho and not all of them were made into apprentices so also keep that in mind.

On the idea of giving them a problem to solve on their journey it isn't off the table but the puzzle must be in all respects completely useless otherwise. Like you cant loophole giving them an axe with runes they dont know/stronger than what they have and say "he's trying to solve the Runes on it!" while the apprentice goes about their journey. Something like a coded text, a journal or some riddle, maybe a glance at something beyond them works tho.

Now, when a Runesmith with apprentices dies the answer changes depending on the age usually. If they're young enough the apprentice is simply taken in by another smith if their older this usually happens but their learning is just stretched longer as the new Master has to suss out their capabilities, if an Apprentice was on the cusp of reaching Journeymanship, they find a master willing to test them and then they go off to do the trial.
 
I'm curious are only dwarves descended from Thungni capable of having the rune smithing gift?

What about the other ancestor gods that aren't Thungi but have their own runic weapons they created themselves? Grimnir for instance is Thungnis uncle.
 
I'm curious are only dwarves descended from Thungni capable of having the rune smithing gift?

What about the other ancestor gods that aren't Thungi but have their own runic weapons they created themselves? Grimnir for instance is Thungnis uncle.
For unknowable reasons only Thungni's descendants specifically. Even if the other ancestors are capable besides Grungni and Valaya you haven't seen them do it, but it isn't out of the question. Those sort of rules doesn't apply to them oddly enough.
 
Something seriously weird just happened to the threadmarks -- of Apocrypha -- like it sometimes did in Divided Loyalties. ><

It's hard to explain, but... well first of all, the latest Apocrypha was put in the wrong place; it's placed at the start rather than the end, the latest.

But the mistake is that... It goes from "Dwarfen Gift Giving" to "A Song". And if you press the back arrow while at "A Song", it just goes back to "Dwarfen Gift Giving." And it skips @BungieONI's threadmark, "Imperial Historian", entirely. ((If you manually started at "Imperial Historian", you could go forward once -- to "A Song." Going back from "A Song" would get you to "Dwarfen Gift Giving" of course.))

This sometimes happened in Divided Loyalties a lot, where threadmarks would have weird... "cut off" points or weird, like, loops in their order. Or sometimes they'd "sticky" a given threadmark to always be at the latest ending spot (this is actually still the case with Divided Loyalties' media thread mark and "Loremaster Weber in diplomatic negotiations with the We, 2482 (Colourized)" in fact).

Basically, what it should be:
*Imperial Historian
*A Song
*Dwarfen Gift Giving

What it currently is: DGG --> A Song
 
Hello just a lurker passing by
I was thinking that since the heart seems pretty hardy (absurd regen and whatnot) would it be destroyed in the making of a golem or other item or simply used as a conceptual power core because if so wouldn't it be possible to upgrade the golem itself beside weapons and armor by changing it's body to a better one?
Or if not make it possible by not creating a golem but creating an animating core or something similar?
 
Last edited:
What it currently is: DGG --> A Song
Fixed. Not sure why this happened but I cant discount the fact that I did futz about with both its placement in threadmarks as either sidestory or apocrypha then whether it was non or semi canon so that may have something to do with it. /shrug


I was thinking that since the heart seems pretty hardy (absurd regen and whatnot) would it be destroyed in the making of a golem or other item or simply used as a conceptual power core because if so wouldn't it be possible to upgrade the golem itself beside weapons and armor by changing it's body to a better one?
Or if not make it possible by not creating a golem but creating an animating core or something similar?

It doesnt work that way for Gronti Construction. By Snorri's reckoning you could do it like that, but you dont know how to get such a theoretical core to power the body it's slotted into. If at all. Replacing a broken arm, repairing a rune doable. Whole-body replacement? Thats unheard of at least from what he can tell.
 
Last edited:
I'm curious are only dwarves descended from Thungni capable of having the rune smithing gift?

What about the other ancestor gods that aren't Thungi but have their own runic weapons they created themselves? Grimnir for instance is Thungnis uncle.

I think that only Thungni and Grungni could make runes. I believe Thungni made the Runes of the other Ancestor Gods.
 
Fixed. Not sure why this happened but I cant discount the fact that I did futz about with both its placement in threadmarks as either sidestory or apocrypha then whether it was non or semi canon so that may have something to do with it. /shrug
*cringes, squeezes eyes shut, tentatively hits some buttons*
It... works? Hoorah, it works! :D

These things are usually an utter pain in the ass to describe in words. So I always worry that my explanation and description will just be more confusing. And then on top of that, there's the fact that... I still have no idea what causes some of the weirder elements of it (like the weird skipping over of "Imperial Historian") so I've no idea how the GMs or Moderators could fix it.

It's the sort of thing that's a bit easier to visualize, or to notice something wrong, for me than it is to put into words. (Though noticing can be tricky itself too; if you're not going through threadmarks, you might not notice it after all... And with sufficiently large numbers of threadmarks? Well.)

It looks like what is happening is like... some kind of weird event where a Threadmark Category gets, like... 'parallel' lines going.

Some attempts at Examples:

............5->6
1-2-3-4->6-7-8

(The 5 is 'skipped' over. But if you manually navigated to 5, you could go from 5 to 6.)

It's like a Threadmark Category splits itself. And you can also get multiple such lines going too. So you can go from 1 to 4 and it ends at 4 and you can't navigate further from 4; then you can go from 2 to 10, but both 2 and 6 are ghosted out, so that if you went backwards from 10 you'd only get to 7. It's nuts.

1-2-3-4//5-6->7-8-9-10
...............5-6->7
(Threadmarks go from 1 to 4 and stop. Then if you picked up at 5 or 6 or 7, you could go forward up to 10. But if you went backward from 10, you could only get to 7. I forget whether you'd be able to go backwards from 6 to 5; call that a 'sometimes' or a 'maybe'?)
 
Last edited:
Inserted tally The vote is locked, writing begins.
Adhoc vote count started by soulcake on Apr 7, 2020 at 11:17 AM, finished with 410 posts and 57 votes.

  • [X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway +Proper Apprentice Actions
    -[X] Teach your apprentices
    -- [X] Release them
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: 4 Snorri actions, 2 Apprentice actions
    [X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway
    -[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
    -- [X] Release them: Your bumbling charges are now of an age where they can begin the journeyman's trial. It will be perilous, but considering the state of things right now, its unlike they'll leave the immediate area or the hold for a while yet. [Cost: 2 apprentice actions permanently] Action cost will switch to Snerra
    -[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: King Otrek does not mince words, he wants the connection to the Underway ready as soon as possible. The number of monsters that are appearing have not only forced the throng into ever increasing levels of conflict, but slowed overland travel and trade to a near standstill. The north is effectively being cut off from the rest of the Karaz Ankor inch by inch. He is calling any aid a dwarf can provide in excavating the connection south. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 17 out of (25+ 15[Delayed South]) =40 Progress. 5 progress a turn regardless of input.
    —[X] 4 actions, 2 Apprentice action
    [X] Plan More Dramatic to Sprint Last:
    -[X] Teach your apprentices
    -- [X] Release them
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: 1 Snorri action, 2 Apprentice actions
    - [X] The Rune Metal Pt. 4: You've made Adamant, a form of Gromril harder and stronger than any you've ever seen. The metal abhors magic, even that of Runes to some extent[Cost: 8 actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc. 3 actions
    [X] Plan Hi Ho! Hi Ho! To Off Some Daemons we Go!
    -[X] Teach your apprentices
    -- [X] Release them
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: 1 Snorri action, 2 Apprentice actions
    - [X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
    -- [X] 3 actions, Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grungni, Rune of Spellbreaking
    [X] Plan A Banner fit for Valaya
    -[X] Teach your apprentices
    -- [X] Release them
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: 1 Snorri action, 2 Apprentice actions
    - [X] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
    -- [X] Four Actions
    -- [X] Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Healing (Greedy One's Heart applied) and Rune of Fortitude
    [X] Plan All In
    -[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
    -- [X] Release them: Your bumbling charges are now of an age where they can begin the journeyman's trial. It will be perilous, but considering the state of things right now, its unlike they'll leave the immediate area or the hold for a while yet. [Cost: 2 apprentice actions permanently] Action cost will switch to Snerra
    -[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: King Otrek does not mince words, he wants the connection to the Underway ready as soon as possible. The number of monsters that are appearing have not only forced the throng into ever increasing levels of conflict, but slowed overland travel and trade to a near standstill. The north is effectively being cut off from the rest of the Karaz Ankor inch by inch. He is calling any aid a dwarf can provide in excavating the connection south. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 17 out of (25+ 15[Delayed South]) =40 Progress. 5 progress a turn regardless of input.
    -- [X] Four Snorri actions, two apprentice
    [X] Plan All in Tunnel
    -[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
    --[X] Hold them
    -[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway
    --[X] 4 Actions + 2 apprentice actions
    [X] Plan Underway: Mostly All In
    -[X] Teach your apprentices
    -- [X] Release them
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: 4 Snorri actions, 1 Apprentice action
    -[X] [Simple] Apprentice work: 1 Apprentice action
 
@soulcake

i'm curious are you modelling what the other rune smiths in the area are doing? For instance our apprentices when they become Journeymen will be able to fill commissions and do work on public projects like the underway. Will their actions sometimes cause progress on public works that we're aware of?

Will they work on other stuff entirely that we have no knowledge of?
 
Ah, also... something I've been wondering ever since I first saw it.
Snorri's beard is exactly five and a third dwarf lengths long. Only now in his fifth century has the hair started to slow down, which is a shame.
What is a "length"? I mean, when you say length do you mean "roughly the distance that a Dwarf would step" or do you mean "Literally the height of a Dwarf; so like 4-5 feet."

The former gives a reasonable answer of something like 5-6 feet long beard.

The latter gives you a beard 20+ feet long, which is silly as heck and I don't think you'd even be able to manage it. Rapunzel Dwarfs.
 
@soulcake

i'm curious are you modelling what the other rune smiths in the area are doing? For instance our apprentices when they become Journeymen will be able to fill commissions and do work on public projects like the underway. Will their actions sometimes cause progress on public works that we're aware of?

Will they work on other stuff entirely that we have no knowledge of?
Beyond the abstract and general? Not really, it would kill me to keep that in mind. You gotta remember the scale of work that would be noticeable is more often done by several runesmiths working independently but whose contributions end up working towards that one goal. Only Runelords usually deal with projects that affect the hold on their own.
 
Ah, also... something I've been wondering ever since I first saw it.

What is a "length"? I mean, when you say length do you mean "roughly the distance that a Dwarf would step" or do you mean "Literally the height of a Dwarf; so like 4-5 feet."

The former gives a reasonable answer of something like 5-6 feet long beard.

The latter gives you a beard 20+ feet long, which is silly as heck and I don't think you'd even be able to manage it. Rapunzel Dwarfs.

He said Dwarf lengths so yes, it's like 20+ feet long. Longbeards beards get crazy long.
 
I imagine Grimnir just infinitely folding his beard back up to the chin and back down, except disguised with braiding and so forth so dwarfs can act like they're not pioneering the field of matter compression several thousand years too early.

I'm sure there's an actually reasonable explanation, like it not actually being that long. Because that's a bit silly even for Grumpy Runic Santa quest.
 
Okay I'm bored so here's another question: since the heart regenerates itself if pieces are cut off would it be possible to create a stockpile (Giant ruined freezer for example) for the griffin if we managed to tame it or for some nice troll heart meatpie?
Would it be advisable feeding it or eating something like that or should we avoid it? Is it even something we already know or do we need to research it?
 
If we're not making the interior of the golem from gromril or adamant, we should probably see if we can make it from Silver wutroth. Much lighter so the golem can be faster and less likely to get bogged down, more flexible so less likely to shatter from blunt impacts transmitted through the armour, and also much more likely to be possible to regenerate. The adamant armour should be hard enough to render the hardness of the rest of the material a secondary factor.

There may also be some benefits from making the golem from at least formerly living material.
The problem with making it out of wood is wood's vulnerability to burning/dissolving under the flame and acid of supercombatants like Keepers of Secrets and Dragons. Further, making it out of Silver Wutroth means further research into the Silver Wutroth tree for best use purposes and serious questions on if Silver Wutroth has the same magic resistance qualities as stone.

Stone to has this problem of burning/dissolving but its not as catastrophic of one, particularly against magic. While regeneration is a benefit, having the core material of the golem be something we know is both magic resistant and very tough, with a high specific heat capacity as well is more beneficial. Plus there are Runes for melding stone to stone, see Snorri's secret workshop doors that he hid his warplate behind, so repairs should be possible so long as the main Rune Array on the golem is not damaged.
The one example I can find, the instructions for the rune that was on the Axe of Dargo, was recorded in Karak Kadrin on sheets of gromril, so presumably it's not completely unknown.



Runes and more runes to the rescue. A runesmith controlling a golem from the outside has the challenge that they may not be able to see what the golem is doing or its tactical situation as well.
What? A Golem is usually an Ogre-sized and up creation that towers over the battle, its sort of the point and its rather hard to lose.

Just mount the golem and benefit by proxy from any Conversion combo shenanigans we employ or whatever. Its a solved problem, in the sense that the dwarves know how to account for it, that doesn't require inventing an entirely new set of strategic concerns like teaching people how to build the golem-armor and how to use them.

And we can get most of the power in golem-armor from Armor Runes slapped onto Adamant plate armor for a dwarf, because in terms of what it does it is a smaller version of what you're describing with the benefits of not requiring teaching people a new way to fight. Might need to teach other Runesmiths how to make Adamant, but that has a lot less steps involved than teaching them how to make Adamant golem-armors. And even more importantly it doesn't require messing around with rune modification, which saves a lot of time.

It really is! A fire or frost themed golem from Kraka Drakk... I mean, I think it was a frost dragon that was killed here right? Plus this is the north, with so much snow and ice... Plus Ymir is a frost giant. So yeah. It'd be cool to be able to throw in ice or fire-breathing themes.
An interesting thought for you:

Frost from Niflheim and billowing flames from Muspelheim crept toward each other until they met in Ginnungagap.

Amid the hissing and sputtering, the fire melted the ice, and the drops formed themselves into Ymir


A quote from somewhere, though I don't remember if it is from the Edda or where its from. But in the story of Norse creative myth, the abyss before the world existed is Ginnungagap and in this description is the idea of billowing flame. While ice breath is interesting, breath of fire or light I think better fits the dichotomy described here and its a good source of inspiration.

Okay I'm bored so here's another question: since the heart regenerates itself if pieces are cut off would it be possible to create a stockpile (Giant ruined freezer for example) for the griffin if we managed to tame it or for some nice troll heart meatpie?
Would it be advisable feeding it or eating something like that or should we avoid it? Is it even something we already know or do we need to research it?
Snorri said he couldn't power multiple runes with the cuttings so I doubt it would be a sustainable source of food and I uh... really would rather not give it a test if eating the Heart does anything bad to Snorri. Plus we have no real way to interact with the Griffons except pure chance.
 
Last edited:
The problem with making it out of wood is wood's vulnerability to burning/dissolving under the flame and acid of supercombatants like Keepers of Secrets and Dragons. Further, making it out of Silver Wutroth means further research into the Silver Wutroth tree for best use purposes and serious questions on if Silver Wutroth has the same magic resistance qualities as stone.

Stone to has this problem of burning/dissolving but its not as catastrophic of one, particularly against magic. While regeneration is a benefit, having the core material of the golem be something we know is both magic resistant and very tough, with a high specific heat capacity as well is more beneficial. Plus there are Runes for melding stone to stone, see Snorri's secret workshop doors that he hid his warplate behind, so repairs should be possible so long as the main Rune Array on the golem is not damaged.

If the golem has three runes, you couldn't apply a fourth rune to it to meld stone to stone, I believe.

The big problem with stone is that it's often less tough than seasoned wood. It shatters rather than deforms and rebounds when struck. Stone also isn't generally magic resistant, I believe. Obsidian is, but that's a specific property of a specific mineral. Regular stone can be blown or with a fireball, or reshaped with gold or light magic.

What? A Golem is usually an Ogre-sized and up creation that towers over the battle, its sort of the point and its rather hard to lose.

Just mount the golem and benefit by proxy from any Conversion combo shenanigans we employ or whatever. Its a solved problem, in the sense that the dwarves know how to account for it, that doesn't require inventing an entirely new set of strategic concerns like teaching people how to build the golem-armor and how to use them.

And we can get most of the power in golem-armor from Armor Runes slapped onto Adamant plate armor for a dwarf, because in terms of what it does it is a smaller version of what you're describing with the benefits of not requiring teaching people a new way to fight. Might need to teach other Runesmiths how to make Adamant, but that has a lot less steps involved than teaching them how to make Adamant golem-armors. And even more importantly it doesn't require messing around with rune modification, which saves a lot of time.

In the very broken terrain and forested of Norsca or the World's Edge, you could trivially easily lose line of sight on something ogre sized. Dwarven battles usually aren't fought on flat, empty plains.

Mounting a golem is also crazy. You either need to be strapped on, making you a giant target unable to easily fight, or you're going to go flying as the golem fights. If this was a solved problem, I'd expect Throngs, particularly Kraka Drakk's with multiple runesmiths that can make them, to be accompanied by units of golems as a default. We don't seem to see this. Golems are used to defend fixed points in the use cases we've seen. Also, I think the rune would have spread more widely if this was a solved problem, and no longer be rare

I don't agree that we can get most of the benefit of golem armour from unpowered armour, because it's not powered so won't be as trong, and it's not as large, so can't be used to carry oversized weapons such as bolt throwers, or have the sheer mass to stop things like giants picking you up and throwing you, or kicking you away.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top