Well yes, that's what Kagome is for. She's there for her awareness and ability to resolve unforseen complications in ways which don't result in every observer saying, "This was either Deidara or Gouketsu, and the rampaging cloud of boom was shouting about 'stinkers' instead of philosophising on the fundamental impermanence of performance art, hrmmm..."
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Well yes, that's what Kagome is for. She's there for her awareness and ability to resolve unforseen complications in ways which don't result in every observer saying, "This was either Deidara or Gouketsu, and the rampaging cloud of boom was shouting about 'stinkers' instead of philosophising on the fundamental impermanence of performance art, hrmmm..."
- Location
- Pacific standard
100 kg rocks aren't going to be enough to destroy the bridge. Damage it yes, but not destroy it the way we need to.
We need to let Kagome Kagome. Boom squish.
We need to let Kagome Kagome. Boom squish.
The Hokage assigned Kagome specifically because he wanted the bridge blown up.
If we drop rocks on it instead, is Kagome even optimal for the mission anymore? The ANBU could do that themselves.
I feel like Asuma considered various options, decided explosives are the most likely to be effective, and expects us to use explosives. If we deviate from the stated mission, we're implicitly signalling that we won't obey orders literally, that we'll do what we think is best, not what Asuma wants.
That may be okay. It's certainly a risk.
This seems like a good idea. Propose 3-5 approaches, let someone with more experience decide which is most likely to succeed.
If we drop rocks on it instead, is Kagome even optimal for the mission anymore? The ANBU could do that themselves.
I feel like Asuma considered various options, decided explosives are the most likely to be effective, and expects us to use explosives. If we deviate from the stated mission, we're implicitly signalling that we won't obey orders literally, that we'll do what we think is best, not what Asuma wants.
That may be okay. It's certainly a risk.
This seems like a good idea. Propose 3-5 approaches, let someone with more experience decide which is most likely to succeed.
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The mission is to destroy the bridge, not use explosives.
Technically true, but I feel like you're deliberately ignoring the essence of my argument.
Asuma assigned Kagome to this mission because he thinks the bridge should be destroyed using explosions. We can ignore his judgement. I'm just saying, it might not be wise. Surely we can assume that Asuma is competent.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Actually you know what I'll make my own.
[X] Action Plan: Beyond Our Pay Grade
[X] Action Plan: Beyond Our Pay Grade
- Grab Keiko ASAP for plan-optimization. This isn't playing around with politics, this is Kagome's life on a mission.
- Meet wherever's convenient for her if she's not willing to traipse out to the Goketsu camp. Maximum OPSEC on discussions here.
- Discuss with her and whomever of Uplift is available and appropriate (don't break OPSEC unless it is, but Keiko and Mari and Kagome should probably be in on the discussion at the least) the following:
- Plan 1: Drop explosives from above, attached to rocks or clones to taste
- Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work. Very fast results, little recon needed. KISS.
Cons: Guarantees that people know someone didn't want that bridge there. It's obvious who. Still, no evidence.
- Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work. Very fast results, little recon needed. KISS.
- Plan 2: Aburame-bug bound delivery of explosive munitions (pre-filled implosion seals that they can bite through to boom it.)
- Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work; perhaps better results than above. Significantly less likely to be obvious Konoha was involved, especially in combination with plan snippets. Can transition into the above if bug delivery is spotted.
Cons: Dependent on Aburame capacities and Kagome going along with it; requires more trust. Requires sacrifice of bug.
- Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work; perhaps better results than above. Significantly less likely to be obvious Konoha was involved, especially in combination with plan snippets. Can transition into the above if bug delivery is spotted.
- Plan 3: Personal delivery of explosive munitions/personal excavation of rock
- Pros: Very effective at making sure there's not going to be a bridge there at any point in the future. Can use Pangolin (with Keiko's permission, as part of the mission, keeping her supplied with chakra for the duration) or Earth Clones.
- Cons: Easy to spot by sensory techniques, higher risk to personnel than other plans.
- Plan snippets (may be added to any of the above to taste):
- Drive chakra beasts into the ravine to take the fall for the destruction.
- Use technique or seal to create earthquakes either light or heavy, to stop sensory techniques or destroy the bridge.
- All plans best done in black of night.
- Requisitions:
- Flash seal or technique (for egress)
- Earthquake seal or technique
- Permission for skywalkers
- Chakra Beast corpses/locations to plant at site
- Team Suggestion:
- Akane, Kagome, Stealth Spec Aburame (in addition to Snake and Hawk), (possibly) Motoyoshi to help deliver munitions? Not sure on them.
- Present the above to Asuma: allow him to decide which to use.
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This is a bunch of nonsense. Asuma is consulting the needed experts to accomplish the mission objective of destroying the bridge. It doesn't matter how it get done, just that it get done.
If he agree that we think it's a silly idea to bring Kagome alone, then Kagome won't come.
- Location
- Yes.
@Cariyaga What is your opinion of luring chakra monsters to the bridge (alive or dead) to make it look more like the collapse was a Natural Event? I seem to recall acidic ants near the Swamp of Death, as an example.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: Beyond Our Pay Grade
I'm a little too busy to do more than review a plan or two but this one looks solid.
I'm a little too busy to do more than review a plan or two but this one looks solid.
- Location
- Liverpool
[X] Action Plan: Beyond Our Pay Grade
- Location
- Yes.
@Cariyaga Maybe we could requisition chakra monster corpses that we could plant at the scene of the crime, or at least information on qualifying monsters we could hunt ourselves.
EDIT:
EDIT:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Kagome can literally make a set of Skywalker in, like, 10 minutes; is Asuma forbidding us from making them for or during the mission?
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Added that to requisitions. @Velorien @eaglejarl Could you look over the plan? Does it seem reasonable to you guys?
- Location
- Pacific standard
Ej said recently that aburame bugs can't lift paper.
- Location
- Yes.
Doesn't mean they can't just drag them along the ground or similar.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
[X] Action Plan: Beyond Our Pay Grade
so Beyond Our Pay Grade is an entirely reasonable plan which has my support, but sometimes I feel the need to vote for something so crazy unreasonable but achievable that it'll make us legends for pulling off; hence, I present this plan:
[X] Action Plan: Operation Fluid Dynamism
Word Count: 273
so Beyond Our Pay Grade is an entirely reasonable plan which has my support, but sometimes I feel the need to vote for something so crazy unreasonable but achievable that it'll make us legends for pulling off; hence, I present this plan:
[X] Action Plan: Operation Fluid Dynamism
Word Count: 273
- Requisitions
- Strong Water ninjutsu user; need to generate lots of water.
- High-capacity storage seals can substitute.
- Barrels, driftwood, debris.
- Flash seals.
- Earthshaking seals or jutsu users.
- Some of Keiko's time to optimize this plan.
- Strong Water ninjutsu user; need to generate lots of water.
- Mission Goals:
- Dam and obstruct the river to increase the river's flow speed.
- Ride said fast river current through the exposed area.
- Hit the granite upthrust with explosives and cutting ninjutsu at speed.
- Ride the fast river current out of engagement range and escape.
- Mission Successes:
- Bridge and granite upthrust destruction.
- Pinning the blame on River ninja (river manipulation, Water ninjutsu, and valley fighting techniques)
- Pinning the blame on Lightning ninja (bright flashes that destroy Earth outcrops)
- Execution
- Split mission teams into River and Exfiltration Teams.
- River team should be selected for ability to waterwalk on extremely rough water.
- River Team finds the source of the canyon and redirects or unfreezes a high pressure flow of water into the canyon.
- If the flow is small, dam the river first to build up fluid pressure.
- If River Team has relevant jutsu to help, use it.
- Strategically place driftwood for River Team to use.
- River Team rides the rushing whitewater flow through the valley into the bridge and granite upthrust.
- Use explosives, or damaging ninjutsu to cut through the granite upthrust.
- Once the granite upthrust is confirmed destroyed, River Team rides the river out at full speed.
- Exfiltration Team will link up with River Team at the explosive signal.
- The combined teams will exit the valley, collapsing the valley as necessary to escape.
- Once at the treeline, set the treeline ablaze to deter pursuit.
- Leave the operation area for mission success.
- Split mission teams into River and Exfiltration Teams.
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- Location
- Yes.
You realize that the ravine is dry at the bottom, yes?
EDIT:
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
This one, yeah. That's why I requested a stealth spec Aburame; it should be possible for them to deliver it through the ravine with little issue.
- Location
- uk
As for the air-bombing plans: I'd strongly argue that rock drops should not be tested on an actual mission; if we want to add them to our arsenal we should test them on some innocent ground around leaf first, to have a better idea of how much damage we can do and how accurate they are.
As such I'm strongly in favour of just using explosives here, and not any never-tried-before technique. (except if the bridge is completely undefended and we can freely try the tesla earth quake solution - but even that is unlikely to work on first attempt)
As such I'm strongly in favour of just using explosives here, and not any never-tried-before technique. (except if the bridge is completely undefended and we can freely try the tesla earth quake solution - but even that is unlikely to work on first attempt)
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Well, if it's dry, than it's either seasonally dry or completely dry; if it's the former, so long as we're willing to fuck up everyone downstream we can go blow up the glaciers at the origin point and ride the river down, and if it's the latter we can redirect a river or two and also fuck up everybody downstream of both the former river and the new river
(sidenote: Ravines, canyons, and gullies form because of river movements through the depression. Since this canyon is described as a "major ravine" it seems likely that water would have had to flow through this area for a long time, giving me reason to believe that this ravine is a seasonally dry one instead of permanently dry)
- Location
- Yes.
I'm not anything close to qualified and may well be telling blatant falsehoods...but I'm pretty sure it's below freezing in Leaf and therefore whatever glaciers serve as the origin point would just re-freeze in short order.my disappointment is immeasuarable and my day is -
Well, if it's dry, than it's either seasonally dry or completely dry; if it's the former, so long as we're willing to fuck up everyone downstream we can go blow up the glaciers at the origin point and ride the river down, and if it's the latter we can redirect a river or two and also fuck up everybody downstream of both the former river and the new river
(sidenote: Ravines, canyons, and gullies form because of river movements through the depression. Since this canyon is described as a "major ravine" it seems likely that water would have had to flow through this area for a long time, giving me reason to believe that this ravine is a seasonally dry one instead of permanently dry)
I think.