Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

uiopion · Nov 13, 2019

[X] Check in on your fief in Stirland.
[X] Prince Kazrik, as he builds on his relationship with Nuln.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.
[X] The Amber College, to see how your donation of Lustrian eggs is going.
[X] Julia, See what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.

mastigos · Nov 13, 2019

IronFist said:
Well, it might be helpful to know if divine magic and arcane magic are too similar. If we can't affect Dwarves with arcane magic for an extended period without harming them, Divine magic could potentially be just as bad.

speaking of which, people keep talking about the downsides of extended magic exposure but there IS another way to go about things. Instead of a general aura of fertility increase, it might be better to aim for one-off effects similar to in vitro fertilization.

Glau · Nov 13, 2019

bookworm702 said:
Had this idea for quite a while, but then you guys go on and vote to have him in a social vote, and utterly tank my ability to procrastinate. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

This was a fun read, thanks for posting it!

das_slash said:
Double-slayers... That was an idea, but how? Shave his beard leaving only a thin strip behind? Go fight the elves? Shave everything maybe, throw himself in water and pretend to be born again, a new name and hope the ancestors don't notice?

Oh man, double slayers? I love it. Nicely done!

Andres110 said:
@BoneyM, if we hire a wizard with College Favour to come by and do the powerstone Aethyric Vitae research, would that cost us an AP?

Guys, please stop bothering Boney with this stuff?

The answer is yes: if it gets written up as part of an update, it costs AP. And doing upgrades off-screen, which is what the 'AP free' version you are praying for would be, kinda sucks as a story.

thepsyborg · Nov 13, 2019

Time to roll through the multiquote log again. In a thread this fast-moving it's rapidly becoming my favorite feature.

Robotninja said:
Is it possible to use the matrix to store a spell inside of a physical object instead of a living being? What happens if a living being with a matrix dies?

The first question has been covered OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!11! TIMES! No. Storing a spell in an arbitrary physical object is just enchanting. The Matrix is specific to living beings.

The second question I have no idea, and it's a damn good question.

Angelform said:
Embarrassment is for people who can't get away with calling Kragg The Grimm comrade.

Not just "comrade"- "fellow person who gets their hands dirty". "Fellow blue-collar laborer." It's friggin' brilliant, one of my absolute favorite clever turns of phrase in the entire quest.

chocolote12 said:
If we can hit somebody with the Pit of Shades, they can save or they can die. And the Save isn't magic resistance or anything, it's to avoid falling into a hole into the Warp opening beneath their feet. Whether they're a rabbit or an Emperor Dragon.

See, on the one hand, that's a damn good point. And on the other hand, it is safer and easier to write three or four or ten extra papers and ~~hire~~borrow two or three or five extra Lord Magisters as backup than it is to try to learn Pit of Shades ourself.

Also, I suspect that "avoid falling into a Pit" saves are made considerably easier (if indeed not obviated entirely) by the ability to fly. As dragons do.

Artemis1992 said:
Do old Dragons have magic resistance?

I am not remotely fluent or up-to-date in most of the specifics of Warhammer mechanics, but the general impression I have is: In the sense of "spells usually just don't work on them", I don't think so. In the narrative sense of "the spell goes off fine, but they have enough toughness and force of will to shrug off whatever the spell is trying to actually do", yes very much so.

I could be wrong, but the impression I've got as someone who's mostly fluent in D&D mechanics is that Warhammer dragons don't have SR; they have AC/Fort/Ref/Wil/DR/- of "yes".

Briefvoice · Nov 13, 2019

Reliable_2IC said:
Sounds right, which is another reason why we shouldn't poke the dragon. Now if it's awake and surprisingly diplomatic I'll retract my words, but poking at the dragon seems like a bad idea however you look at it.

It's the job of a Loremaster to know about the dragon before it wakes up.

You don't wait until the dragon wakes up and then say, "Oh, now is the time to go find out about it." You get the info first. You present Belegar his options in exhausting detail first. He makes whatever preparations are possible to make first.

And yes, you don't want your investigation to be the cause of rousing it, obviously. But that doesn't make it smart to ignore it either. As I said many pages ago, a creature that powerful leaves its mark on history. There's someone somewhere in the region who's seen it active, or at least whose ancestors saw it active and passed down the word. We find them. We find out who the dragon is, what name it goes by, what its favorite food is, what its temperment is like.

Before it rouses itself.

Artemis1992 · Nov 13, 2019

thepsyborg said:
I am not remotely fluent or up-to-date in most of the specifics of Warhammer mechanics, but the general impression I have is: In the sense of "spells usually just don't work on them", I don't think so. In the narrative sense of "the spell goes off fine, but they have enough toughness and force of will to shrug off whatever the spell is trying to actually do", yes very much so.

I could be wrong, but the impression I've got as someone who's mostly fluent in D&D mechanics is that Warhammer dragons don't have SR; they have AC/Fort/Ref/Wil/DR/- of "yes".

Thanks, that's helpful.
Also more fluent in D&D, where I got the question from because it's so prominent a feature there.

thepsyborg · Nov 13, 2019

Artemis1992 said:
Thanks, that's helpful.
Also more fluent in D&D, where I got the question from because it's so prominent a feature there.

I have to admit, the first thing that came to mind when "dragon" was mentioned was "I wonder if there's a Kislevite Ice Witch we could hire that knows Shivering Touch?"

Seleucus · Nov 13, 2019

- Random question: Max has been a co-author on most our papers. That's a lot of college favors that he's gotten as a Journeyman - is he doing anything in particular with them?

- Maybe we should consider paying back the cash we embezzled while Spymaster of Stirland. At the end of the day, Stirland needs the money far more than us, and we can certainly afford it now. Just send in, say, an anonymous 500-crown donation to the Treasury of Stirland, and no one'd be wiser about the origins.

Chronic · Nov 13, 2019

thepsyborg said:
I could be wrong, but the impression I've got as someone who's mostly fluent in D&D mechanics is that Warhammer dragons don't have SR; they have AC/Fort/Ref/Wil/DR/- of "yes".

Pretty sure its Reflex save is garbage, since its tabletop incarnation only comes with an Initiative of 1. Given that Pit of Shades instagibs enemies that fail a reflex save against it, an Emperor Dragon is very much not immune to it.

Andres · Nov 13, 2019

Learning new battle magic is a sucker's game. Dangerous to learn, coin flip chances of miscast, and can possibly get us an arcane mark (who no one thinking right should be trying to get).

If we want to do battle magic, by far the best way to go about it is to get items with battle magic spells loaded in them. Completely safe to acquire, completely safe to use, and just as powerful as ever.

ninjafish · Nov 13, 2019

Andres110 said:
Learning new battle magic is a sucker's game. Dangerous to learn, coin flip chances of miscast, and can possibly get us an arcane mark (who no one thinking right should be trying to get).

If we want to do battle magic, by far the best way to go about it is to get items with battle magic spells loaded in them. Completely safe to acquire, completely safe to use, and just as powerful as ever.

it's pretty much the only way left for magical advancement in ulgu at this point.

All the big name wizards know battle magic, you ain't no one important if you don't.

We have the gambler, we have dhar belt, i say we do it.

Zero Gravitas · Nov 13, 2019

Andres110 said:
Learning new battle magic is a sucker's game. Dangerous to learn, coin flip chances of miscast, and can possibly get us an arcane mark (who no one thinking right should be trying to get).

If we want to do battle magic, by far the best way to go about it is to get items with battle magic spells loaded in them. Completely safe to acquire, completely safe to use, and just as powerful as ever.

Not that dangerous. Between Learning and coin that's a +47 bonus right there which is in no way insignificant particularly if Magic 8 reduces the learning threshold by a bit.

Magic items aren't going to potentially have masteries, will have casting limitations - even the non-BM Seed has only four charges that take quite a bit to recover and actual BM items are going to be even more demanding.

If Battle Wizards could just enchant their staves to safely throw unlimited BM spells around they wouldn't try casting in the middle of battles.

Guile · Nov 13, 2019

[X] Prince Kazrik, as he builds on his relationship with Nuln.
[X] Titus Muggins, who's returned to farming with every avenue of attack defended.
[X] Oswald Oswaldson, newly-minted Chief Bombardier of the Undumgi.
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, as the new home of the Winter Wolves takes shape.

And of course, most importantly,
[X] Elder Hluodwica, as the Halflings prepare for their first proper harvest festival in this new home.

Quest · Nov 13, 2019

ninjafish said:
it's pretty much the only way left for magical advancement in ulgu at this point.

We could create our own spells.

Zero Gravitas · Nov 13, 2019

Quest said:
We could create our own spells.

That's quite probably more difficult than learning existing spells though.

Besides that learning existing spells might grant new traits or make new spell creation easier in other ways.

DragonParadox · Nov 13, 2019

Zero Gravitas said:
If Battle Wizards could just enchant their staves to safely throw unlimited BM spells around they wouldn't try casting in the middle of battles.

Keep in mind that most wizards do not live on a favor gold mind. Just getting several items of battle magic is an option for Mathilde where it is not for most wizards and personally I value risk free casting more than theoretical masteries.

ninjafish · Nov 13, 2019

Zero Gravitas said:
That's quite probably more difficult than learning existing spells though.

Besides that learning existing spells might grant new traits or make new spell creation easier in other ways.

WE only have one more non battle magic spell to learn.

After that we take up battle magic or start inventing.

Or just try multiwind stuff.

Quest · Nov 13, 2019

Zero Gravitas said:
That's quite probably more difficult than learning existing spells though.

Besides that learning existing spells might grant new traits or make new spell creation easier in other ways.

Not really. The last time we tried to explore the Fog of War trait, it was before we came to K8P and had a DC of 60 before bonuses from learning and Ranald's coin. It's almost certainly easier now. We also have it cnfirmed that we know or improve traits related to magic if we create new spells.

SuperSonicSound said:
@BoneyM if we invented a bunch more spells would that carry through? Obviously I'm not suggesting we try and intentionally cheese this mechanic just wondering if hypothetically we did invent another four - five spells over the course of then next twenty years we'd see another +1 to magic.

BoneyM said:
No, but the process of creating that many spells would almost certainly involve gaining or upgrading traits connected to your magic.

Battle Magic on the other hand is unlikely to give us any trait - none of our previous spells did. It's only going to get harder and there is risk every time we cast one of those spells. Finally, even if we learn all of the battle magics, most of them are relatively useless to us when compared to spells literally designed to do what we want. There is also no reason why we can't learn battle magic after inventing a few spells or just buying a few items. It's easier and honestly, the only battle magic we'll be casting casually besides Teleportation is one we invent ourselves.

IronFist · Nov 13, 2019

Is anyone keeping track of the spell invention ideas posted in the thread?

10ebbor10 · Nov 13, 2019

thepsyborg said:
The first question has been covered OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!11! TIMES! No. Storing a spell in an arbitrary physical object is just enchanting. The Matrix is specific to living beings

I wonder if the Skaven goop counts as living. Because if so, they'd make for a decent spell receptable.

Quest · Nov 13, 2019

I have been vaguely keeping track of spell ideas. So far I have these four spells. If anyone can point out any others, I'll happily add them here.

Approved Spells:

Divine Divining (Spell to identify those touched by gods)

Tasoli said:
I have got 2 spell ideas; 1 is using Warrior of Fog and Avatar can we create a spell that reveals all the priests and similarly divinely touched enemies and highlight them so we can see/sense/smell them from distance.

BoneyM said:
Only for Gods Mathilde knows enough about, which would currently be Ranald, Morr, and Gork and Mork. And it wouldn't apply to 'Priests', which is a job description rather than a metaphysical identifier, only to those that have channelled Godly power.

Unplottable:

Garlak said:
Needs to itself be related to a trait... Hmm, would something like a spell that messed with maps or the ability to map a place, be suitable material for Warrior of Fog? Or messes with the ability to nail somebody down on a map -- i.e. "We know this person is somewhere here, but darned if we could tell exactly where"?

BoneyM said:
It would fit the trait, but the raw power it would require makes it Ritual territory.

Enemy Highlighting Spell:

xilios2000 said:
ps. Would a battlefield spell that helpfully highlights enemy combatants by, I dunno maybe attaching a bunch of Marsh Lights to them, be something that Mathilde could create? (I'd assume so seeing as this spell idea (Unlike admittedly almost all other spells we have suggested thus far) actually follows the description of Warrior of Fog to the letter with the whole ''revealing troop movements'', either way I'd thought it couldn't hurt to ask)

BoneyM said:
Viable.

Uncountable Group Illusion:

me.me.here said:
Would that be possible as a spell-development project, to make a buff we could lay over a group that rendered them uncountable? Possibly even including an illusion of fog or an actual fog bank to propagate through just so we could make 'Fog of War' puns or references (plus potentially being able to work with the Staff of Mistery).

BoneyM said:
It's viable, though there's a very hard limit on how far you can get with stamping a fog aesthetic on everything to try to get it to jive with the staff.

Sensory Mist:

Lightwhispers said:
Sensory Mist. Creates and spreads a fine, almost imperceptible mist, which allows the caster to sense everything it touches. Related to the Ulgu radar idea already approved, but operates over a longer time period, using a physical medium.

BoneyM said:
Viable.

Dispersed Location:

Lightwhispers said:
Dispersed Location (needs better name): Probably Fiendishly Complex. Upon casting, the wizard blankets the area with a mist (noticeable, but not significantly hindering vision), and merges with it. While merged, the wizard is insubstantial and undetectable by mundane senses. If attacked with area-of-affect magic, or significant winds, the wizard takes full damage with no defense. At any time, the wizard may re-form anywhere inside the mist, ending the spell.
Might have a Battle Magic version which can only be cast while in a fog, but allows multiple reform/dispersals over a duration.

BoneyM said:
Viable, but immensely risky to try to create, since there'd be no way to test the 'turn back into a person' part of the spell except by turning yourself into mist and hoping for the best.

Choking Fog

Mopman43 said:
Could we make a choking fog? Particularly selectively choking?

BoneyM said:
That's viable.

Candle Melting Fog/Acid Fog

Ericwinter said:
So I was glancing through the earlier chapters again on a whim, and I caught sight of this comment. Apparently this was the miscast that first summoned the Wisdom's Asp to hunt us, and it got me thinking. Acidic fog sounds really, really useful. @BoneyM would it be possible to invent a spell like that? Maybe something like Burning shadows, but with fog instead?

BoneyM said:
It only melted candles. You can try to codify that effect into a spell if you wanted. That said, you could also try to create a foggy variation on Burning Shadows.

TotallyNotEvil said:
@BoneyM Could the proposed Cloudkill spell take a vial of something nasty to make it, well, nastier? Given the connection with Burning Shadows, maybe Black Lotus? An optional material component.

BoneyM said:
Not without making the spell require a component to work off.

Ulgu Radar: (2 spells)

BoneyM said:
It's possible but it would take some time and experimentation to get Ulgu to return reliable and useful information instead of reacting differently based on the emotions of the individuals it bounces off.

BoneyM said:
Two possible spells: physical ping that sees any physical object link a sonar ping, or a soul ping that would bring up anything capable of feeling confusion.

Eshin not showing up on mage sight, Mathilde doesn't know why, so can't say what would put wouldn't work against it.

Shadow Sword:

chocolote12 said:
@BoneyM, also, thoughts on Shadow Knives; during our training we were having trouble with the Shadow Knives spell because they all came out looking like swords instead of knives. Was this an issue because they were harder to throw, or because it meant the spell wasn't stable or something and if we tried to use them for anything they'd cause us to mess up somehow? Also, about how long do our knives last when we hold onto them instead of throwing them? Would it be feasible to make a single really big shadow knife like we were doing to take advantage of our mastery, or could we come up with a variant on the spell to do this, using our Mastery as a creation-trait?

BoneyM said:
Swords possess many fine qualities, but aerodynamic they ain't. The knives last as long as Mathilde holds and sustains them. And a theoretical shadowsword would not be able to do anything that Branulhune or a shadowknife couldn't do better.

Formalizing a mastery into a new spell is sometimes possible but always unreliable and tricky.

chocolote12 said:
Well, it sounds like the start of a way to pass on a hypothetical teleporting sword style. 'Just' rework the spell until the wizard can basically flicker whether or not they're holding one, and I think it would have most of the properties of wielding Branulhune; ignoring most armor and doing silly lightsaber tricks is what would make the style unique, the anti-magic debuff is more of a personal bonus.

BoneyM said:
Yes, that's a plausible line of research.

Incarnate Shadow Technique:

kingreaper said:
@BoneyM would this count as a Warrior of Fog spell:

Mathilde's Incarnate Shadow Technique
Creates an illusionary copy of you out of thick mist moves independently. It moves extremely fast and attempts to avoid being directly spotted, while still remaining somewhat in view - always in the corner of someone's eye.
This spell ends at dawn or if the shadow is struck by any form of attack.

Essentially a spell to generate false-positives in the guards, putting them on edge when nothing is there or sending them searching in the wrong direction.

BoneyM said:
Yes.

Mist Form:

TotallyNotEvil said:
@BoneyM do our current traits allow for the creation of a "Vampire Mist" spell?

BoneyM said:
No, but attempting to adapt an existing spell (if that was a spell) doesn't require a trait.

Threat level manipulating Eye of The Beholder:

DarkLight140 said:
This is actually the seed of a really interesting idea! What if we made a variation of Eye of the Beholder which, instead of targeting an item and the concept of value, targeted a person(/group) and the concepts of danger/importance? So instead of an illusion which makes something look cheap or valuable, we get an illusion which makes a person look harmless or dangerous. Normal knights could look like light cavalry scouts or terrifying demigryph riders, capable but unexceptional soldiers could look like champions or terrified conscripts, an Elector Count could be concealed within the ranks, and so forth. This seems like a very solid piece of logical development that plays directly into our Fog of War trait. It could be developed into either a battle magic scale spell that gets used on entire units, or a much lesser scale spell targeting a single individual at a time. @BoneyM, a review of this spell idea?

BoneyM said:
Entirely plausible.

Codex said:
@BoneyM I belive you already approved this spell idea, but I can't find the post, so can you comment on its eligibility?

I'm thinking of a spell that is essentially Eye of the Beholder, but applies to people using the Fog of War trait. Make someone (or a group of people) look more or less threatning using similar concepts as EotB.

BoneyM said:
I believe my comment was along the lines of 'yes, but at the scale of entire units it'd be battle magic'.

Fog Bank Battle Magic

Sinsystems said:
On that note @BoneyM I have to ask when it comes to theoretical Fog of War spells how impactful would a spell have to be to qualify for Battle Magic status. Like for instance if the Spell was just "Summon Fog Bank" or would it be "Summon Fog Bank that your army can see through without any issue"

BoneyM said:
You could be able to achieve something similar to a mundane fog bank to cover a significant chunk of a battlefield without reaching the level of Battle Magic, but manipulating the perception of hundreds at a time can be expected to be Battle Magic. But the power level as well as any quirks, limitations or drawbacks of a given spell would depend on rolls made while creating it.

Army scale illusions:

lancelot said:
Also something I like to call 'Army of Masks' where you make your army look like another group's army of similar size.

BoneyM said:
Scaled-up illusion, plausible.

lancelot said:
What about having it ape the army it was copied from just put it ahead of the other army or have it stand on top of an area that is horribly trapped, etc?

BoneyM said:
Having it copy the original is plausible.

Memory Garbling Mist:

thamuzz said:
@BoneyM

Spell idea, aiming for Fiendishly Complex.

Spell causes the caster to start emitting a fine mist for a duration (lets say 10 minutes for a placeholder?). This mist lingers in the caster's absence until a time limit is reached (aiming for a longish duration here, 1 day?) or exposed to direct sunlight (maybe expand to sufficiently bright light, should be able to endure a torch). People other than the caster passing through the mist will absorb some of it, resulting in details of their recent memories becoming confused without them realizing it. For instance, a scout might misremember how many troops they saw, or what insignia they were wearing.
Moving around while the spell is active will spread the mist thin, meaning that a particular area of the spell's coverage can affect fewer people before becoming exhausted. Could also reduce the duration of the mist in general.
Preexisting conditions of fog or mist might enhance the duration and/or coverage.

If this basic premise seems reasonable, some follow up questions:
1. Would allowing the caster to specify which details become confused and how be reasonable, either as a basic feature of the spell or as a mastery trait?
2. Would having a specific casting of the spell confuse people in a consistent way be reasonable, either as a base feature or as a mastery trait?
3. Would giving the mist Burning Shadow style IFF be reasonable, or is that something that the caster would need to be in the area to make a judgement call about?

BoneyM said:
This seems acceptable, but any type of control over what memories get garbled or how exactly they're distorted is right out. As is IFF if the caster is no longer connected to the spell.

Also, as a general rule, never make plans about possible future masteries.

Sound-manipulating fog

Alliterate said:
Sounds can carry oddly in thick fogs- dampened as sound energy is scattered by large droplets in typical cold fogs, while where the vapour has tiny droplets (more like hot muggy high humidity), sound can carry further.

So it'd seem in-idiom with foggy, confusing Ulgu in general, and Warrior of Fog in particular, to create a spell(s) that make it sound as if troops are marching where there are none, or that conceal genuine troops arrival until the last moment, or makes it sound as if our troops are on that flank when in fact they're on the other side.

(Even have a similar technique to use, in multicasting minified Sounds cantrips, if scaling up Illusion isn't the right way.)

Doesn't look like this idea is on the approved list- might it be possible, @BoneyM ?

BoneyM said:
Viable.

Mathilde Fog Path:

DiceOfStupidity said:
Spell idea: Mathilde Fog Path

Army utility spell. Create flat layer of fog over the ground to serve as a ground to walk on. It is an answer to difficulties of travel on chaos wastes - all that mutated terrain where vagons can get stuck. Bogs, hives of carnivorous ants, cracked rocky plains, parches of quicksands, etc. Chaos wastes are not uniform. It is horrible, mutated area where mile forward may require going ten miles to a side. This spell would be meant to make that easier, and allow to skip some of difficulties.

Spell allows:
- Allows to drive or walk over sand without carts digging their wheels in sand
- Allows army to cross the bog
- Allows army to cross the river
- Allows to fill the gaps that usually would require the bridge
- Allows to walk over poisonous underbush without touching it

Spell limitations:
- Does not allow to walk on clouds
- Does not allow to keep layer in strong wind
- Does not allow to define friend/foe (anyone can walk on it)
- If someone purposely probes the fog, he or she may fall through
- Limited by environmental conditions - hard to create and keep fog in burning sun

Basically this :

Edit: @BoneyM - could You please give Your ruling whether it's feasible with limitations of Ulgu?

BoneyM said:
Viable, though it would likely have a long casting time and require constant concentration from the caster.

Potential Spells or Long-term Research:

Mastery-combining Battle Magic:

primemountain said:
You know what. I nominate Mat for a new title. She's the Scarecrow now.

M / Dread Aspect: Makes you seem absolutely terrifying to all those who look upon you for one minute.
Mastery - Roiling Shadows: Your shadow is empowered by the spell and thrashes about in a turbulent aura, lashing out at your enemies to wrap around arms and legs and throats, causing death, distraction and even more terror in all who must face you.
+
M / Universal Confusion: Bewilder, but applies to a whole group at once, up to about a ten meter diameter. Short range.
Mastery - Cloud of Confusion: You can cast the spell as a billowing cloud of bewildering gas, which pours from you for several minutes, constantly effecting everyone nearby. Cannot be selectively applied.
=
Scarecrow. Everyone around you is drugged up to their gills and scared shirtless of you. With the exception of Skaven with Gas Masks, like Pestilens and Skyre, Mat is now the Bane of Skaven, and most Goblins. Anything not Immune to Psychology and with low Leadership.

You know, the combination of all this:
Mastery - Indefatigable: While Aethyric Armour is active, you do not tire from physical exertion.
Mastery - Blessed Hands: You instinctively channel Ulgu along any weapon you wield. Any weapon held by you counts as Magical.
Mastery - Shadowrider: Your Shadowsteed is as familiar and easy to control as your own two legs. +5 Martial when mounted on a Shadowsteed, no penalty to rapid distance travel.
Mastery - Roiling Shadows: Your shadow is empowered by the spell and thrashes about in a turbulent aura, lashing out at your enemies to wrap around arms and legs and throats, causing death, distraction and even more terror in all who must face you.
Mastery - Cloud of Confusion: You can cast the spell as a billowing cloud of bewildering gas, which pours from you for several minutes, constantly effecting everyone nearby. Cannot be selectively applied.

Add Shadow Knives with Smoke and Mirror on top, and, well...

@BoneyM Would all those (without Shadow Knives and Smoke and Mirror) combine into a single Battle Magic? Something from Avatar and Warrior of Fog and Mantle of Mist into a spell like :"Avatar of Ulgu". A battle spell that turns Mat into all those masteries at once?

And since she attracts and produces her own smoke/fog, if we can turn Substance of Shadow into Substance of Fog, and add intangible on top, this turns into real Avatar Of Ulgu, or Dread Revenant territory. Mat becomes a damn terror on the field. A teleporting, intangible, terror.

EDIT: Hell, even if she has to recast the spells in battle, every time she refreshes Cloud of Confusion or Roiling Shadows, she can integrate a teleport with Smoke and Mirrors.

BoneyM said:
You can try, but the result you get out the other end would be the result of multiple AP, a lot of dice-rolls and, unless Ranald was particularly generous, probably some compromises.

WOG regarding spells:

Battlefield Illusion:

thamuzz said:
@BoneyM

A few questions about spell design. Ultimate goal of the questions is trying to figure out how feasible designing a spell that causes the enemy to incorrectly estimate the size/composition of an army would be.

1. Do we have an idea of the rough difficulty (ballpark DC range) and time it takes to deliberately develop a spell of a given complexity? (This assumes that the spell idea is viable for us to develop in the first place)
1.1. Petty/Simple
1.2. Relatively Simple
1.3. Moderately Complex
1.4. Fiendishly Difficult
2. Assuming all other things are equal, does developing spells based on existing spells influence this? For instance, if we developed precursor spells at lower complexities, would that reduce the DC/action cost of the final spell?

BoneyM said:
You're trying to change the perception of one half of an entire battlefield to the other half of an entire battlefield. That's battle magic.

thamuzz said:
The thing I'm imagining would be specifically designed to screw with scouts. So you enchant a group so that the first X* hostiles(?)** who (see them/try to count them) will misjudge their numbers by up to an order of magnitude. It would be something you cast on a group every day while marching towards an enemy stronghold so they're not sure if they're facing a force of 100 or 10,000. Maybe add some restrictions so that it becomes less effective in clear conditions.

BoneyM said:
That spell would need to be cast on the observers, not the ones being observed. Otherwise you'd need a mass-scale long-term illusion which would be battle magic.

Windsage based vision spells:

Andres110 said:
@BoneyM, could we use our Windsage trait to invent a Preysight or perhaps even Dark Vision spell? If not, does that mean we can only create spells if we have a trait that explicitly says you can make spells with it?

BoneyM said:
You could try.

Smoke Constructs:

Dracikral said:
@BoneyM I was wondering how viable a spell to manipulate fog/smoke/mist is? Could we create a spell that lets us make constructs from fog/smoke/mist or control it in a way?

BoneyM said:
If by constructs you mean shapes, yes. If by constructs you mean something solid and able to interact with the world, it would take investigation to figure out what might be possible.

Shadow Puppets:

BoneyM said:
For the record, these:

1) make our shadow pop up as an intangible 3d figure and fight along side us, wielding our sword's shadow as an oversized shadow dagger (our mastery). It fights ~~indipendently~~ under the conscious control of the caster, but has to remain attached, effectively having someone fighting at our back, increasing the difficulty of being surrounded.

2) Detach our shadow and have it move and act under our direction ~~or and do simple things independently~~. We can concentrate and assume direct control, which allows us to see and hear (and maybe talk) through it. This gives us the ability be at two places at once, but not act simultaneously.
2b) Teleport using Smoke and Mirrors to our shadow's location, giving a small boost to the effective range of teleportation.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Would be plausible.

NoteMay potentially piloted by Wolf.)

Spell Creation Using Traits:

BoneyM said:
Warrior of Fog is an explicit spell creation trait and can be used to create spells in a fairly wide sphere. Other traits can also be used but to a much narrower extent, and can be completely incompatible with Ulgu resulting in no possible spells. Warrior of Fog could be stretched to cover moving through terrain that would otherwise be considered impassable, which wouldn't have been allowed if it was a non-mystical trait that just represented a knack for battlefield scouting. Xeno-Affinity can be used to make a spell that would make people not notice if she's missing subconscious cultural cues because that's directly Xeno-Afiinityish and Ulgu-y.

Enchantments:
Dammerlichtreiter Thurible: (Anti-undead smoke)

Jyn Ryvia said:
Shadow: Mantle of Mist/Death: Ward Against Abomination Enchantment:

The Dämmerlichtreiter thurible.
when Incense is burned within the Dämmerlichtreiter thurible the smoke that it releases carries the warding effect against the undead. a skilled user can almost blanket the walls of a small town or village in its glowing smoke.

BoneyM said:
Yes.

HebrideanStarfis · Nov 13, 2019

agumentic said:
No, there's ten Arcane Marks, and we got three. So there's seven left.

Forgetfulness would be the worst, but at least we can always just ask Kragg to rune up some golden undies or something to repel vapours/smoke with Mantle. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to help.

Boney · Nov 13, 2019

HeWhoAdds said:
@BoneyM, I realize it's probably futile at this point, BUT,

Is this a valid write it?

[ ] Johann, learning more about each other while raiding Clan Mors.

Sure, though keep in mind it won't give any additional loot rolls.

Aegon Targaryen said:
And what are Mathilde's quirks, if you don't mind me asking, Master @BoneyM?

None. She's a perfectly sensible woman.

(incredibly nosy, adopts people and obliterates their problems, likes grumpy misanthropes and distrusts anyone who actually tries to charm her, inability to process the concept of 'not enough data to reach a conclusion', overprepares for some things and charges right in to others...)

LeafBug said:
Do any of our Ducklings do it? That would be a pretty amusing parallel

Adela and Gretel. Most Apprentices do it, and it tends to drop off as they approach Magister. Making reality flinch when you swear is satisfying but you don't last long past a certain point if you don't start taking magic seriously.

Horium said:
@BoneyM I wonder, how powerful are Anton, Franzen and Wolfsbach compared to the other nobles in Stirland right now?

Significantly more, but in ways other nobles don't pay much attention to. Burgher wealth and soft power isn't respected by most of them, and the increase in the wealth of their fief has been gradual. The firearm factory in Blutdorf is going to be the first major tangible result of the EIC's growth.

TotallyNotEvil said:
@BoneyM this is something we can do, right?:

[] [PURCHASE] Post a bounty for dragonbones at Barak Varr/with the EIC, and send that Bright Lord Magister who made the MAPP a cask of fine dwarven ale.

Yes, though it'd help if you specified the amount of money you want to put on it, or the purpose you've got in mind. As it is, that doesn't tell me if you want enough to make a wand or enough to make a zombie dragon. Also caveat emptor, there'd be a roll to see the quality of what you get and a very low roll might result in Totally Legit Dragon Bones™, fresh from the plasterworks of Ostermark.

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Out of curiosity @BoneyM , what parts exactly were disproven/Shattered in our paper regarding Waaagh magic?

Mainstream opinion was that Waaagh magic is a freight train, either hit it just as hard as it's coming, try to veer it off-course, or get the hell out of the way.

Luminous said:
@BoneyM My apologies for the bother, but I'm curious. To what level are the We hunting the Skaven currently? How far could we sustainably increase those levels if the We went all in on producing Hunters to fight the Skaven? How far could we unsustainably increase those levels if the We went all in on fighting the Skaven?

I'm curious if the We could be used on the scale of industrial warfare.

The We still see the Skaven as a dangerous food source rather than an enemy, and have been ramping up their predation slowly. Convincing them to do otherwise would be a step beyond teaching them economics. It'd be like trying to convince humanity to go to war against cows.

Andres110 said:
Extensive Dwarven Familiars - 100 gold

Andres110 said:
@BoneyM is Dwarven Familiars a valid purchase?

No such books exist, they're not enough of a threat vector for Dwarves to have paid special attention to the familiars of their enemies.

chocolote12 said:
Hey @BoneyM, I thought I remembered seeing the option somewhere, so I went back and looked and found it in our fief options the turn before we went to join the expedition:

Besides footing the high cost for the materials, that seems pretty cheap on dwarf favor. Would it be possible to have a fortress built atop Karag Nar? I don't mean sticking an entire other building on the top of the mountain peak, really, so much as just reshaping the top into something much more like a castle, that'd serve as a better base for placing a whole ton of towers on it (and also look really cool and castle-y).

Or, to put that another way, as an extension of the idea of opening a branch campus of the colleges in Karak Eight Peaks, could we commission the creation of a single continuous building suitable for being a college that happens to look like an at least partially open-air mountain castle, because mountain castles are cool? Not on top where we're putting the current towers, but done so that other, more public towers might be built or connected to below our quarters?

Or, er, I'm not putting that very succinctly at all, I suppose. I'll draw a diagram?

Edit: For the record, the 'Residential Areas' are the places where we're sticking the rooms we're digging down for, not where the Undumgi would be staying, for example. Sorry if that's not particularly clear, but I tried to represent the penthouse with that 360 degree opening, so I hope this wasn't misinterpreted.

Dwarf architectural opinion: You've got a mountain. That's the ideal fortress. Fortresses shaped like fortresses are for when there's no appropriate mountain where you need a fortress.

You can build towers out from the faces of the mountain instead of the peak for theoretical future 'public' towers without having to make any preparations for it.

Jyn Ryvia said:
also @BoneyM ? was looking at the magic rules page,

have we ever done Channelling? e.g taking a moment to make a spell more powerful.

I cant tell if its a forgotten mechanic or if its just not our style.

I'm asking because getting good at Channelling is something to start learning.

Grey Magic doesn't have a lot of scalable spells and Mathilde's usually casting most of her spells in situations where seconds matter.

Jyn Ryvia said:
I would agrue that with it nearly done, getting the last two spells is not a bad idea, especially with the high chance of getting mastery on the one we parted learned.

and yes, I know Shadow of Death is redundant, but I hate the idea that we will always have a big fat U in the book staring at us. and while we can't get more magic, we might get a Trait for full knowledge for all spells.

The reward for learning all the spells would be +1 magic, but you've already got that because you added to the spell list. There's no additional shinies except for the spells themselves.

St0rmweaver said:
Oh yeah, regarding our shiny new magic stat.

@BoneyM, since Mathilde's magic is so high, that means the easier spells aren't even rolled for, correct? Does that mean that we've lost the chance to master them like we did with Aethyric Armour and Blessed Hands?

No. Dice are still rolled to apply them in tricky situations, it's just dice for using them to maximum effectiveness rather than success/failure. Those roles can (not will, and at my sole discretion) still provide Mastery.

Robotninja said:
@BoneyM Is it possible to use the matrix to store a spell inside of a physical object instead of a living being? What happens if a living being with a matrix dies?

No, and the Matrix releases the spell, which either triggers normally or fizzles depending on how it reacts to being cast on a corpse.

IronFist said:
@BoneyM: is a scaled down version of pit of shades that affects a single target something we could achieve with fiendishly complex magic? And would we be able to attempt to create it if we spent college favour to hire someone who knows it, or would we need to know the battle magic version before attempting it?

You'd need to start with knowing the regular version and then you'd have to invest AP before you can know for sure how it could be scaled down.

Andres110 said:
@BoneyM, if we hire a wizard with College Favour to come by and do the powerstone Aethyric Vitae research, would that cost us an AP?

No, but the more people know about it, the greater the chance someone will gossip.

TimEd · Nov 13, 2019

Guess we really DO need to Social Anton when that firearms factory gets produced. He might appreciate the support when the REAL sharks realize just how rich and powerful he actually is.

Codex · Nov 13, 2019

@BoneyM I belive you already approved this spell idea, but I can't find the post, so can you comment on its eligibility?

I'm thinking of a spell that is essentially Eye of the Beholder, but applies to people using the Fog of War trait. Make someone (or a group of people) look more or less threatning using similar concepts as EotB.

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