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On the topic of the dragon, what priority are people thinking about for the anti-air/anti-magic towers? Right now the Grey Tower is a horrifically expensive investment that is extremely vulnerable to being wrecked by a pissed-off Emperor Dragon, and is also an obvious target from the sky. We should absolutely get those defenses if we ever plan on poking the dragon, but do we need them sooner?


More towers add more risk of Dhar interaction which we are pushing as is I would rather commission anti air from the Dwarfs which we know they have it just getting it installed as a security measure is entirely possible. plus a dragon is likely to shrug off any magic option out of hand.
 
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Are you currently taking suggestions for a plan?
So the thing is, I'm trying to draft library plans, but because of the way the library mechanics work, what books you want to buy on a turn is kind of dependent on what you expect to do on the turn. @Quest mentioned powerstones, and I was questioning whether we would be able to work the powerstone class in next turn.

It turns out that it doesn't matter, because books don't help you take the class, they help you use the skill later (cf our Enchanting class on T23), so there's no circumstance under which we need to buy powerstone books this turn.
I would never put anyone but Mathilde on an AV research because she is the only one that can see all winds of magic without extra effort and its made of all of them far to much chance of something going wrong. we also have the most equipment to neutralize something going wrong. Its also why I would wait until everything else is researched before calling in Dwarf rune research and would be willing to spend favor to get Kragg to do it. Exposing a dwarf to wind of magic concentrate when it calcifies them without knowing as much as possible about it as possible is a huge risk.
If we get AV as our task next turn cycle, we don't have the AP to get through everything in two turns unless we use the Golds as our research assistants.
 
I don't think the dragon is going to be Mathilde's responsibility, at least not anytime soon.

You don't?

I mean, it's not going to be anyone's sole responsibility. A dragon is an "all hands on deck" situation everyone will have to contribute to solving. It's going to start with the Loremaster, though. The Loremaster is who Belegar turns toward and says, "So tell me all about dragons and whatever you can find about this dragon in particular." Then it's the Loremaster's information that informs everyone else's response.
 
And complete Mathilde's transformation to the min-maxed murderhobo-y next-coming-of-Nagash super-Matriarch who is slightly uncomfortable with everyone that isn't a wizard. :V
She is entirely comfortable with Wizards, Dwarfs, Gods and giant eusocial Spiders.

Diplomacy is one of the cornerstones of the Grey College. Mathilde's skill is mediocre at best and will be embarrassing if it does not improve at least somewhat by the time we reach lord magister.
Meh, embarrassment is for people without Great Deeds to their name.
Embarrassment is for people who can't get away with calling Kragg The Grimm comrade.
 
So the thing is, I'm trying to draft library plans, but because of the way the library mechanics work, what books you want to buy on a turn is kind of dependent on what you expect to do on the turn.
We have plenty of money, we can buy books for things that we expect to do eventually, and then we'll definitely have them whichever turn we do that thing on.
 
It turns out that it doesn't matter, because books don't help you take the class, they help you use the skill later (cf our Enchanting class on T23), so there's no circumstance under which we need to buy powerstone books this turn.
Technically they'd help if we hired a magister to do the powerstone-related research for us, but from what I can gather the thread wants to keep the research exclusive to Mathilde.
 
You don't?

I mean, it's not going to be anyone's sole responsibility. A dragon is an "all hands on deck" situation everyone will have to contribute to solving. It's going to start with the Loremaster, though. The Loremaster is who Belegar turns toward and says, "So tell me all about dragons and whatever you can find about this dragon in particular." Then it's the Loremaster's information that informs everyone else's response.
If the dragon awakes and decides to take issue with the dwarves it becomes more of an evacuation than an investigation.
 
We have plenty of money, we can buy books for things that we expect to do eventually, and then we'll definitely have them whichever turn we do that thing on.
We have ~3500gc, and every time we spend more than a small amount on books, a very vocal subset of the thread gets extremely unhappy. Especially now that we have a subsidy that refreshes every turn, it just makes more sense to spend strategically based on what you expect to deal with in the near future, rather than setting up a giant storehouse of knowledge in one big chunk.
Technically they'd help if we hired a magister to do the powerstone-related research for us, but from what I can gather the thread wants to keep the research exclusive to Mathilde.
Eh, that seems like a waste of favour and AP. Powerstones are something we probably want to know the basics of eventually anyway, especially if we keep up our tower construction, and if it turns out that AV makes for really good powerstones, the knowledge of how to do it will be even more valuable to us.
 
If we get AV as our task next turn cycle, we don't have the AP to get through everything in two turns unless we use the Golds as our research assistants.

ahh your thinking of the AV as the assigned project I am not. I would much rather scout the Skaven or Karag Mhonar i8 think they are more revelant at the time. the AV research is what I would use as a presonal slot so my plan would look like this

Max on the Queekish or the Black Gem.
Johann on raiding or gun research.
Mushroom research or Skaver raid for the Duckies.
two actions for Queekish if that's our assignment of one if not.
two actions for scouting Karag Mhonar if assigned none if not.
one AV research for what introduces the transformation.
and either wolf or the temple to Ranald.

I don't see AV as a research project to be proposed until we exhaust all options that do not require a runesmith then I would propose it.
 
Max: Test exact circumstances to produce transformation
Johann: Raid, get Queekish
Duckling: Take Hubert, raid, get Queekish
M1: Qrech action
M2: Test living being exposure
M3: Powerstone class
M4: Temple to the Gambler
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Max: Test exact circumstances to produce transformation
Johann: Vitae action
Duckling: Raid for Queekish via Hubert or Gretel
M1: Qrech action
M2: Test living beings via exposure
M3: Powerstone class
M4: Get Kragg involved in Vitae research.
 
You know, Battle Magic doesn't take longer than any other spell to cast. It's not a long session of waving and chanting, it's a very quick exchange of an exploding hot potato, and whoever's left with it gets blown away.

If we can hit somebody with the Pit of Shades, they can save or they can die. And the Save isn't magic resistance or anything, it's to avoid falling into a hole into the Warp opening beneath their feet. Whether they're a rabbit or an Emperor Dragon.

If we anger that thing when we try to make friends with it, it might be nice to have an ultimate nuke in our pocket, so that we have can expand our options beyond running away or just dying ourselves. A coinflip of 'something very bad' or 'you win' is better odds than messing up being an army-shattering loss for the Karak.

In short, metaphysical knife fights are probably better for our health than not having a knife, when the other guy definitely does, and the knife is you and your friend's only legitimate method of beating him, aside from hoping you manage to hire out his cooler cousin and his cooler cousin's friend who is also crazy good in a fight. Something to think about.
 
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For defending the tower, I see a massive amount of Dwarven and Human artillery that is no longer nearly as critical for bombarding armies. Some of it will probably be retasked/redesigned towards preventing reasonable attack by air. Really, we don't want to mix more magical effects up there anyway, and it's all Dwarven siege construction so it shouldn't be particularly vulnerable anyway.

I do think getting info on dragons would be a good idea. For the time being I think we're happy with the status quo—as while eventually the fact that said dragon is claiming a Dwarven peak will force some change, right now Belegar seems to have very little interest in claiming more peaks. Thing is, if said dragon wakes up angry, even independent of our own actions (such as by desperate Skaven of some ilk), it becomes a major problem with zero warning. A bit of prep work so that we at least have intelligence options worked out could save a lot of lives then.
 
You know, Battle Magic doesn't take longer than any other spell to cast. It's not a long session of waving and chanting, it's a very quick exchange of an exploding hot potato, and whoever's left with it gets blown away.

If we can hit somebody with the Pit of Shades, they can save or they can die. And the Save isn't magic resistance or anything, it's to avoid falling into a hole into the Warp opening beneath their feet. Whether they're a rabbit or an Emperor Dragon.

If we anger that thing when we try to make friends with it, it might be nice to have an ultimate nuke in our pocket, so that we have can expand our options beyond running away or just dying ourselves. A coinflip of 'something very bad' or 'you win' is better odds than messing up being an army-shattering loss for the Karak.
Emperor Dragons are casters and can counterspell.
 
Do people really think that getting other people to do our work costs us AP instead of saving it? The idea seems completely backwards to me and I don't understand the reasoning behind it.
 
Yeah. And if it's not counterspelling then it's getting to cast battle magic at us directly. The possibility of failure doesn't make trying worse than not trying.
and if its casting battlemagic at us we can counterspell I would much rather go the route of counterspell over battlemagic. We can always take a action where the Battlemages are currently tearing things up and watch how they cast to get hints and train.
 
Kill-Stealing
This was meant to be a short joke that quickly got out of control.

If the dragon is every poked it will be when the best Slayers of Karak Kadrin are present, and if they can't do the job there was no hope in the first place.

The blizzard was so intense it felt more like being battered by hammers than anything natural wind could conjure, cold so deep it felt like being submerged in the ice flows of the cold north, yet Vorrik persevered.
Through the naked stone of the cliff and the jagged, frozen rocks of the summit, he and his brothers in oath had finally found their death, he knew it, deep in his heart that this was it.

Seventy years he had been a slayer, seventy years of being denied his honor, his poor father had died without hearing of his redemption, trollslayer, giantslayer, demonslayer, each title only bringing further shame and grief upon him, as the ancestors still rejected his penance, now finally it was time, an Emperor Dragon, mightiest and cunniest of beasts, tonight he would dine with his ancestors.

Finally after ascending all night, he reached the flat expanse of what surely was the beast's lair, he could feel the chill getting somehow deeper, so much that the rock itself seemed brittle and dead, around him the rest of his brothers where also getting ready for their last fight.

Baragat, almost as old as himself, shamed after surviving a 100 beastmen on his own, young Pareg, looking for an early dead after barely 20 years of fight, not that he could blame him, him and many others had gathered forth for this, the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks, a deed that could only be claimed by the sacrifice of the mightiest and bravest, surely the ancestors would smile upon this.

They advenced fearlessly through the summit, Dragons are lazy beasts and being noisy would only give it a chance for a better fight and thus the salvation of more of his brothers, but he kept the honor of being first, no one would take his death from him.
Deeper they went into the frozen waste stop the mountain, he fingers had lost all sense but he would shave his beard before letting go of his axe.

Finally, finally, they spotted the beast, laying atop its hoard of stolen dwarf wealth, he waited for his brothers to catch up and was ready to give a mighty cry when he spotted something behind the dragon.

A halfling? No, slightly taller and robed, could it be? No, the doom had come for him, a grey monster out of the Slayers nightmares jumped upon the dragon with a greatsword made of Gromril.
Despair clutched his chest in a cold far deeper than mere physical ice could, he saw his brothers running and knew they would be too late, he raised his axe and threw with all his might hoping to gain the dragon's attention, but it was too late, the dragon's severed head rolled and the feet of the doom-thief.

He fell to his knees and knew he would never rest with his ancestors.

"It's ok Vorrik, there are more dragons out there, we just gotta keep looking"

"I don't think there are, not for us brother, it's been what, 15 years since the last was spotted? We are not so young anymore"

"Then what? We gotta keep going, It's not like we could become double-slayers"

Double-slayers... That was an idea, but how? Shave his beard leaving only a thin strip behind? Go fight the elves? Shave everything maybe, throw himself in water and pretend to be born again, a new name and hope the ancestors don't notice?
Or maybe... It was said that the terror lived atop Gazul's own sword that she may quickly send the souls of her enemies to damnation, that she worked with Kragg the grimm as an equal, that she had brought a new age for his kind, maybe, maybe she would know. A cruel forge it would be, the first of the double-slayers, that he might forge honor anew instead of getting the old one back.
Around him, he could almost feel the shadows smiling at him.

Thank Ranald for that lucky hit, wait a moment, who are those dwarfs and why are they staring at me like that?
 
and if its casting battlemagic at us we can counterspell I would much rather go the route of counterspell over battlemagic. We can always take a action where the Battlemages are currently tearing things up and watch how they cast to get hints and train.
We can't always be an Arcane Parry God. The counterpart to all those miscasts we induced was that if they'd actually managed to get any of them off it would have been far worse for us. And if it decides to just not cast after it brushes off the first miscast, it's still an Emperor Dragon, and Karak Eight Peaks isn't.
 
Boney has never let us do that. People tried to do that this past project cycle with the towers and he was extremely firm. We cannot pay favour to "outsource" an AP-costing action.
He was firm on the towers but the reason he gave is because it was too dangerous to not involve ourselves, not because of AP issues. On the subject, he did say that we could use favours to send wizards into Kvinn-Wyr if I remember correctly. Though aside from that he has in general been against giving us AP. Should ask to make sure of things.

@BoneyM, if we hire a wizard with College Favour to come by and do the powerstone Aethyric Vitae research, would that cost us an AP?
 
The humans, maybe. The dwarves will literally die first. I think if we've learned anything about them, we know that. They evacuated K8P once... never again.
Sounds right, which is another reason why we shouldn't poke the dragon. Now if it's awake and surprisingly diplomatic I'll retract my words, but poking at the dragon seems like a bad idea however you look at it.
 
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