Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If we go with Aetheric Vitae as a project, we would be looking at Power Stone classes as a thing to do.
Can we fit it into next turn? I guess we could do something like this:
Max: Test exact circumstances to produce transformation
Johann: Raid, get Queekish
Duckling: Take Hubert, raid, get Queekish
M1: Qrech action
M2: Test living being exposure
M3: Powerstone class
M4: Temple to the Gambler

Was that what you had in mind?
I would suggest to use most if not all the budget that Belbro gave us for this turn into Dragonlore... And even spend some more to get the +12...

We are going to need it eventually, and by the looks of it it is going to be soon so better spend it now than lamenting when we have to deal with an Emperor Dragon...
I am leery about spending a lot of money on stuff that might help us eventually when we could spend that money on things that will definitely help us immediately.
 
At least to me, trying to get Diplomacy because it is useful sounds more min/maxy than keeping to our strenghts.
In character, Mathilde is not a diplomat and is kind of dorky, she gets around social interaction by preparing, it is who she is.

Doesn't minmax refer to the practice of pumping up one or two stats at the expense of everything else? Continuing to pump into Martial and Learning (and Intrigue and Piety and...) at the cost of Diplomacy sounds like a perfect example to me. Also, at least to me, I wanted to get Diplomacy not because it's useful, but rather for narrative purposes.
 
Are you expecting to go to Ulthuan without prep time?

Scenarios that are possible don't equal scenarios that are likely.

Mathilde being on a high stakes diplomatic duel without prep time is one of the former, and very much not one of the later.
'Going to Elf-land' isn't exactly a scenario you can prepare talking points for, unless you intend to sound like an NPC. She doesn't need general context and a target demographic, she needs to know stuff about the specific situations she'll be talking about in order to prepare for them. I.e she could prepare points about the things she did in Karak Eight Peaks, but not her opinion on the super-lion battles down at the Colosseum that randomly got brought up in the middle of that.

All two of the elves we've met have seemed to like wizards, which might help some in the future, if the trend continues, but part of being good at Diplomacy is just being able to be sociable, and Mathilde is awkward around people unless she's intimately familiar with them or their cultures; a list at this point which encompasses our wizard friends and Man-with-slightly-larger-herd.

I want to be friends with elves. Part of making friends with elves is increasing our befriending stat, which is pretty low. Low stats are a lot easier to raise than high stats, so it won't be too much of a hassle to throw in a few cultural actions while we're boning up on Advanced Everything in preparation for the Elfventure.
 
Doesn't minmax refer to the practice of pumping up one or two stats at the expense of everything else? Continuing to pump into Martial and Learning (and Intrigue and Piety and...) at the cost of Diplomacy sounds like a perfect example to me. Also, at least to me, I wanted to get Diplomacy not because it's useful, but rather for narrative purposes.
Yeah, not exactly minmaxing, metagaming maybe? Playing the mechanics instead of the character, going after something because we find it convenient and not because it's something we would organically do.
It is a thin line of course, when we are meant to represent Mathilde's inner desires, but it kinda applies to the other side too, we shore up Diplo because we perceive it as a weakness, we leave it alone because we don't need it.
I guess I have grown to see min/max as the pursuit of power rather than rp.
 
@Abby Normal I simply don't buy your argument. Mathilde has done more than well on all fronts so far.

She might not be a social butterfly, but she is smart and cultured and experienced enough for it to plain not matter.

Furthermore, you are ignoring the fact that she isn't unskilled politics. Her understanding of it isn't folded under diplomacy, it's under Intrigue.

Every time she cashes in favors, it's a veritable exercise in diplomacy. And she has shown an intrinsic to grasp on that.

Given half the chance, she can be incredibly persuasive and politic.

I can't see improving Diplo as anything but on the bottommost rung of priority for the foreseeable future.

I'm underlining this because I'm obviously not against getting better at things.

I'm expecting her to go to Ulthuan and then end up in situations she didn't know were going to happen while she was there.

Hence it certainly seems worthwhile to plan on putting some of that prep-time before going to use on preparing for diplomatic situations (as represented by training a diplomacy related skill)
Which is hardly irrelevant for the next, what, ten or twenty turns?

And even then, she best served by Learning about customs, and keeping playing to her strengths.
 
Last edited:
@Abby Normal I simply don't buy your argument. Mathilde has done more than well on all fronts so far.

She might not be a social butterfly, but she is smart and cultured and experienced enough for it to plain not matter.

Furthermore, you are ignoring the fact that she isn't unskilled politics. Her understanding of it isn't folded under diplomacy, it's under Intrigue.

Every time she cashes in favors, it's a veritable exercise in diplomacy. And she has shown an intrinsic to grasp on that.

Given half the chance, she can be incredibly persuasive and politic.

I can't see improving Diplo as anything but on the bottommost rung of priority for the foreseeable future.

I'm underlining this because I'm obviously not against getting better at things.


Which is hardly irrelevant for the next, what, ten or twenty turns?

And even then, she best served by Learning about customs, and keeping playing to her strengths.
In addition to this, it is all the sweeter when diplo raises on its own as we get to know people and learn from them, much less painful than martial too.
 
But if you're going to be this passionate about building Mathilde into this super-killy character, I'd like to mix a little role-play here and there. And that involves playing sub-optimally sometimes.
Let's stop this argument right the hell here.

Saying training something she is eminently talented at, and has played a truly crucial role for achieving most of what she has ever achieved in her life, and is a vital skill for keeping her alive every day on the job, and something she will rely on constantly for what's likely the rest of her life, is a choice somehow "lacking" in role-play is bullshit.
 
Diplomacy is one of the cornerstones of the Grey College. Mathilde's skill is mediocre at best and will be embarrassing if it does not improve at least somewhat by the time we reach lord magister.
 
I wonder if Mathilde needs to have a "you are a Thane under the command of King Belegar before you are a business partner for the EIC" talk with Francesco, because I'm nervous about the potential ways that his position could be used to give preferential treatment. As Mathilde said, it could be a disaster.
 
Diplomacy is one of the cornerstones of the Grey College. Mathilde's skill is mediocre at best and will be embarrassing if it does not improve at least somewhat by the time we reach lord magister.

There seems to be plenty of room (and acceptance) for low diplo builds in the ranks of the Grey Lord Magisters to me, with Melkoth "Cast hostile battle Magic when you ask me a question then stroll off chortling" being explained merely as "Yeah plenty of eccentricities once you get up the totem pole".
 
Last edited:
I do think that Mathilde taking some classes to prepare for her Elven field trip will make sense, be they Diplomacy classes or classes on Elves directly. I'll vote for them when the time comes.

That said, it's definitely not a priority right now while K8P has ten thousand different fires going on at once and there's like a 10% chance that Mathilde will have to duel an Emperor Dragon to the death on any given turn. Something to consider later, once things properly settle down.
 
Let's stop this argument right the hell here.

Saying training something she is eminently talented at, and has played a truly crucial role for achieving most of what she has ever achieved in her life, and is a vital skill for keeping her alive every day on the job, and something she will rely on constantly for what's likely the rest of her life, is a choice somehow "lacking" in role-play is bullshit.
I agree that the implication that not choosing to shore up our low diplomacy score isn't a valid form of roleplaying is not particularly good. I like the concept of increasing it, but it's not playing the game wrong not to choose that.

I totally want to turn Laconic into a cool one-liner trait, though, and if that's not Diplomacy training I don't know what is.
I wonder if Mathilde needs to have a "you are a Thane under the command of King Belegar before you are a business partner for the EIC" talk with Francesco, because I'm nervous about the potential ways that his position could be used to give preferential treatment. As Mathilde said, it could be a disaster.
Trade is good for the civilized world. In its ideal state, the EIC is both a massively successful enterprise and also a public service to the free world, and everybody else who doesn't like dying horribly. So while this should come up, I think, as a way to protect against the possibility of corruption, I envision the EIC less as a pseudo-sci-fi MegaCorp and more like the middle managers of the Undumgi government. Calling it a corporate town sort of feels weird, because it implies that it's there to make money first and foremost, but the infrastructure for merchanting is very similar to the infrastructure for public officials, and as both of the leaders of the city(? Karag Nar is apparently very big, but my sense of its scale fluctuates) are members of the EIC it's not like they'd be sending any of the profits off to be spent elsewhere. In that regard, they might as well just be taxes, complete with going back into the city instead of ending up in anybody's coffers far away from where they were collected.

Or to condense that, they don't have to be contradictory. Hopefully they won't be. If they do, his duty to his king comes before any trade responsibilities he has, but done properly the EIC should only make him a better Thane, ruling over a happier populace, because stuff like that is why we got in on the EIC.

I guess we'll find out when the vote closes, though, given that he's in the picks right now. I hope we can be friends; I want to deck him out with more magic items later, because even small stuff from us could be pretty cool for him.
 
Last edited:
@BoneyM: is a scaled down version of pit of shades that affects a single target something we could achieve with fiendishly complex magic? And would we be able to attempt to create it if we spent college favour to hire someone who knows it, or would we need to know the battle magic version before attempting it?
 
Saying training something she is eminently talented at, and has played a truly crucial role for achieving most of what she has ever achieved in her life, and is a vital skill for keeping her alive every day on the job, and something she will rely on constantly for what's likely the rest of her life, is a choice somehow "lacking" in role-play is bullshit.

That's fair. You make a perfectly legitimate argument where Mathilde goes 'I'm very good with the [Something] and I'm going to perfect it to reach greater heights!' because that's honestly a thing IRL. People train their talents: Mozart, Bruce Lee, whoever. Grinding the ONE TRUE STAT(OR STATS) is a valid way to role-play.

Regardless, I'd like to make my position clear. Diplomacy is not a waste. It might be at the bottom of the priority list but neglecting it forever is undesirable. I'd say more but I am trying to give an olive branch here so...
 
[X] Oswald Oswaldson, newly-minted Chief Bombardier of the Undumgi.
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, as the new home of the Winter Wolves takes shape.
[X] Soizic, newly elevated to military leader of the Undumgi.
[x] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going his search for love is going.
[X] Prince Gotri, who is enhancing the underground defences of the Karak.

But this is, by a wide margin, the most attractive spell creation suggestions I've heard so far.
Personally, I'd find a spell to control / repel vapours for a time more attractive. Something to counteract the mark for a while, or to at least keep Johann's vapours away from Mathilde's head. Might be impossible despite her fog related traits, since it runs counter to the arcane mark, and since repelling mists is pretty much the opposite of what a Grey Wizard does.

But you've had an insight glimpse of the mind of Mork Himself
"inside glimpse"?
the EIC presence starts soaking up and forwarding on information on the hybrid society
remove first "on"
 
Just wondering how do we go about spell creation in the first place? Cause I personally would like to use our new method of gathering mist via our arcane mark to make constructs that we can use to bewilder and deceive out of said mist. Which requires us making such a spell. I imagine it's pretty low on the totem pole, but it would help diminish any demerits from our arcane mark, and would also help further our spell book thereby helping increase our magic wielding traits.
 
Can we fit it into next turn? I guess we could do something like this:
Max: Test exact circumstances to produce transformation
Johann: Raid, get Queekish
Duckling: Take Hubert, raid, get Queekish
M1: Qrech action
M2: Test living being exposure
M3: Powerstone class
M4: Temple to the Gambler

I would never put anyone but Mathilde on an AV research because she is the only one that can see all winds of magic without extra effort and its made of all of them far to much chance of something going wrong. we also have the most equipment to neutralize something going wrong. Its also why I would wait until everything else is researched before calling in Dwarf rune research and would be willing to spend favor to get Kragg to do it. Exposing a dwarf to wind of magic concentrate when it calcifies them without knowing as much as possible about it as possible is a huge risk.
 
Can we fit it into next turn? I guess we could do something like this:
Max: Test exact circumstances to produce transformation
Johann: Raid, get Queekish
Duckling: Take Hubert, raid, get Queekish
M1: Qrech action
M2: Test living being exposure
M3: Powerstone class
M4: Temple to the Gambler
Are you currently taking suggestions for a plan?
 
On the topic of the dragon, what priority are people thinking about for the anti-air/anti-magic towers? Right now the Grey Tower is a horrifically expensive investment that is extremely vulnerable to being wrecked by a pissed-off Emperor Dragon, and is also an obvious target from the sky. We should absolutely get those defenses if we ever plan on poking the dragon, but do we need them sooner?
 
There seems to be plenty of room (and acceptance) for low diplo builds in the ranks of the Grey Lord Magisters to me, with Melkoth "Cast hostile battle Magic when you ask me a question then stroll off chortling" being explained merely as "Yeah plenty of eccentricities once you get up the totem pole".
Casting battle magic on apprentices who ask stupid questions is certainly an eccentricity, but I don't see it as sufficient evidence that he is incapable of acting diplomatically when he needs to.

Even if our diplomacy doesn't get in the way of a possible promotion, I feel like the fact that an ideal grey magister should have some skill in the area is more than enough justification for Mathilde to improve herself. I mean, we can't even read Anton anymore. That's just embarrassing.
 
A Day in the Life of Francesco Caravello
A Day in the Life of Francesco Caravello


As a simple series of small shafts and metal mirrors allowed the first scraps of morning light to enter his chamber, Francesco Caravello stirred in his bed. After reluctantly throwing off his sheets, he walked over to the armor and equipment rack next to his desk and stripped his smallclothes. Though he ran from his flight before he was even a man, some traditions of the temple stayed with him. Slowly he girded himself in the cloth padding, and then the sturdy mail shirt, which had seen to his protection ever since his first successful cloth shipment to Myrmidens over 20 years ago. Layered atop, from the legs up, the finely wrought pieces of dwarfish plate, for which he was still making payments to the good Master Smith. He carefully picked up the master crafted blade of gromril, a gift of his king and a sign of his men's favor, and reverently strapped it to his side. The blade deserved a name, but...not yet, something deep in his heart told him. There needed to be more time. Lastly, Francesco hesitated, his hand hovering over the lid of the lead lined box on the desk. He steeled himself; Francesco Caravello was no Imperial stooge, frozen with superstition. Even these energies had their place within the structure of war. He unclasped the lid of the box to reveal the simple torc within, and placed it around his neck. He felt the energies seep into his countenance, filling it with the fire which inspired his men and which promised the immolation of his enemies. He takes a few moments to reflect on the battles ahead, metaphorical and possibly literal, before quickly putting the torc back in its box and removing some of the armor, though the blade and breastplate remained. He was no longer a simple merchantman or guard captain, but Dokazi Francesco Caravello, The Watcher of Death Pass, leader of the Undumgi and loyal servant of King Belegar.

At the side of his desk sat a simple meal of pie and ale, courtesy of his faithful aide, Rosie. Sitting down, he ate the meal quickly and got back to work looking over the written reports of his watch captains. Traffic had been increasing steadily as more and more caravans became willing to risk the journey, now that the beginning and end of it were as safe as his men and the might of dwarfs could make it. For the moment, personel requirements were not an issue, so increasing patrols was simply a matter of marking a couple of squads for additional patrols and less drills, but it was something to keep an eye on.

A small chime from the clock on his wall let him know that it was already mid-morning. Leaving a note thanking Rosie for the meal, Francesco threw on his cloak and made his way up the stairs to the eastern artillery platform. Living at the base kept him in touch with the men, and trying to use altitude as a form of authority was a lost cause as soon as the wizard claimed the peak. As he exited into the fresh air, he took in the sight of multiple weapons teams, each practicing their wheeling and calibrations with mock-up cannons of wood and rock, all under the supervision of the new Chief Bombardier, who currently was-

"Emmett, you slack-jawed ninny! That cannon ain't your sheepwife back home, you don't lead it! Throw that rope over your shoulder and HAUL!"

...providing moral support.

Catching the man's eye, Francesco waved him over. Oswald jogged over, slapping his back with a giant grin. "Franz, good man, glad you could join us! I was just making sure the lads were going through their proper paces."

"The drills are proceeding well?"

"Like a dream. Had some artillerists from Lhune drop by yesterday, offered some pointers. Ha! Those boys may not be able to grab the powder off the top shelf, but they sure know their way around a can- Luc, damn you, you'll snap your spine in two before you budge that thing!" He runs over and grabs the young man off the wooden cannon. "Get low, back straight, dig in and shove with your legs!" Demonstrating as he instructed, he threw his weight behind the artillery piece as the entire piece began to shift. In the same way, the two went by each squad, Oswald providing instruction in his own way as he filled Francesco in on progress and plans for the future.

"I'll have these boys slavering at the mouth by the time those pieces get in from Nuln! Speaking of pieces from Nuln, Franz, you're still in the market, right? I've got a cousin that was still single last I heard! Maybe I can send a letter up, you two can jump the broom, eh?" he said, ribbing his superior in the breastplate.

"I'll...give it some thought, Oswald. For now, I've got to be off."

"Well, if it's getting off you're worried on-"

"Goodbye, Oswald."

With that, Francesco quickly left the firing platforms and began descending the mountain steps. He managed to make it on time to his meeting with Magda Knochenbrecher, the local manager of the EIC. Magda, a portly woman in the beginning of her twilight years, quickly ushered him into her office.

"Mr. Caravello, so wonderful to have you in. Biscuit?" After he politely declined, she continued. "The input you had on our integration policies in our last meeting have been a godsend. Things have been much smoother ever since. I think we can easily expect an increase in growth from last season, and honestly I think we should start some long term planning for expansion, or we could end up the victims of our own success."

"Excellent foresight, Mrs. Knochenbrecher." Francesco said. "If you'll grab the maps of the interior chambers, I think we can start planning things properly." With that, the two sat down and hammered out a rough idea for economic zoning and planning that should help maintain both order and profit. With a hearty handshake, the two parted, and Francesco made his way back down the grand staircase to the base level.

It was already past midday, so the main mess hall was largely empty, but he still managed to find a stone bench with a few of his men and sat down to enjoy his stew with them. Most of the men were used to his presence by now, so they joined him in between mouthfuls in idle chit chat about patrols and the universal trials of filing reports. With a few laughs and waves, he returned his bowl and made his way back to work.

Francesco made his way through the grand and winding tunnels of Karak Nar, eventually coming to a large cave with several flumes to allow for the ingress and egress of air. There, a large man was bringing a hammer down in mighty swings, and slowly a sword came to life.
Antonio Marino, Francesco's old friend and current unofficial head of the Blacksmith's Guild. He quickly quenched the blade and wiped his hands on his apron, coming over to Francesco.

"My Dokazi, you grace my humble forge. How might I aid the Eight Peaks?"

"Well, first, Antonio, you can stop the formalities," Francesco said with a smile. "Then, you can tell me how our little project is going."

"Well enough, Francesco," Antonio said, returning his own smile. "The EIC has pulled in a lot thanks to the benefits they offer to members, but plenty of people have their own reason to avoid Imperial entanglements. They're more than happy to accept an offer to subsidize their dues."

"Good, keep things discreet, and help me feel out the other Guilds to expand the program." They spoke a bit more on those that refused affiliation with the EIC, as well as simple small talk, before Francesco said his goodbyes and went on his way. Though the EIC was a powerful ally, and a fairly honest one as well, the only eternal ally was Myrmidia. All others fell or turned upon you, and the only ones who didn't prepare for such an event are fools.

From there, he traveled along the halls and up the stairs to the mid levels, where the shrines had been set up. At the hall of Grimnir, he bowed his head and prayed that he and his warriors continue to have the strength to defend this ancient dwarfen home. At the shrine of Ulric, he prayed for the bravery and ferocity to strike down the foes before him. Finally, at the shrine of Myrmidia, he prayed for the wisdom to lead his men to victory, and to form his realm into one of culture and beauty. And if he lingered here a bit longer than the other shrines, who could say?"

"You're praying wrong," an obnoxious voice called from the entrance to the shrine.

Francesco sighed. "Prayer is a relationship between the Lady of War and the petitioner. There is no 'praying wrong'."

"And yet still you manage it. Honestly, I'm astounded." The voice dripped with smugness, and Francesco turned to see exactly who he expected. Salvatore, with a great deal of names after, an Estalian that had vexed him since the beginning of the now legendary campaign. He claimed nobility in his far-off homeland, though Francesco had yet to meet an Estalian who didn't. "I hope you didn't just come here to critique my religious practices?"

"No, that is merely a bonus," Salvatore responded as his smirk widened. "You see, I've picked up some very interesting news today." Despite all logic and reason, Salvatore had proved indispensable to Francesco due to a unique ability to wile out even the deepest held secrets from merchants traveling along the Spice Road. Apparently being an obnoxious ass was an entirely voluntary decision. "You are aware that the ogres of the eastern mountains have been more active in the past months, of course. But I spoke with a large man from Ind who managed to pick up a civilized tongue. He said that he was accosted by a large band of them, and some of their giant mounts. Demanded large portions of his caravan in tribute, but stayed true to their deal. Said he heard some of them grumbling to their leader, and the leader chastised them about a tyrante grande. Shut them right up. Could be that someone or something has started organizing the Ogres. Depending on their level of control in the area and tariffs, could be good for trade, could be bad. Time, and more loose tongues, will have to tell."

Francesco smiled. "Keep up the good work, Salvatore, and I won't have to have you tied up and sent on the next caravan east as food for them. Save you the trouble of doing honest work."

"Ah, but then you would be bereft of any decent conversation!" Salvatore said with a laugh. With a wave and an 'adios', he was gone.

Checking a clock for the time, Francesco quickly made his way to the outer edge of the mountain, exiting a small cave mouth and down a flight of steps to the stables. He brushed and tacked his warhorse, Sirroco, and managed to mount him just as Soizic arrived on her own steed.

"My Dokazi, a pleasure as always," she called with a smile. "Come, we will continue our lessons on the northern fields." She led the way to the battleground, and picked up where she left off on ensuring that the leader of all men of the mountain didn't embarass himself on a horse.

"You must remain ready to respond with the shield!" she cried out as she continued to probe his defenses. "It must defend not only you, but your horse as well." True to her words, she swiped low to cut at Sirocco, but he was able to intercept. "Good, good! You and your mount fight as one. He is your legs and you are his arms. Each must see to the other to be victorious."

The back and forth of combat went on for quite some time, and soon the sun was beginning to dip into the western peaks. They paused for a moment, he panting heavily and she only mildly winded. He looked over to her, and nodded. "...Thank you, for...seeing to this."

She looked surprise for only a moment, then composed herself. "It is your duty as a ruler to lead and inspire the men. It's my duty as your subordinate to see you don't kill yourself doing so. This is only a part of that." Looking over at him with a playful gleam in her eye, she smiled. "Another part of one's duty is to see to the security of those who come after us. Tell me, with so much work you've done to bring in companions from the Empire and the broken lands, why do you remain alone?"

"Well, one must be prudent and look for a proper match," Francesco said, as a wicked thought sprouted in his head. "For you, for instance. A man of great valor, and martial strength, but also with kindness and a gentle side. One who might understand what it is to try and reconcile their culture with the circumstances of their birth." Soizic's expression became distressed as she realized where this was going. "Why, you'd have to be very lucky indeed to run into such a man."

She glared at him, and before he could react, her wooden greatsword ducked under his idle guard and slammed into his chest with enough force to knock him out of his saddle and onto the ground. He struggled to a sitting position as Soizic dismounted. "I thought we were finished for the day," he said, wheezing through the pain.

"You are the Dokazi. You should have been more watchful," she said simply, extending a hand and helping him to his feet. Then she smiled. "But thank you." With that, they rode together back to their home mountain.

Rubbing his bruises, Francesco made his way back to his quarters, finding his evening meal on the table. After dinner, he spent the rest of his time at his desk, going over a small pile of paperwork and slowly compiling his monthly report. That montella had yet to respond to any of his reports, and he wasn't entirely sure if she even read them, but still he prepared them every month. Then, as the clock chimed 10, he killed the lanterns and knelt beside his bed, hands clasped to his heart in the form of eagle's wings. Quietly, he thanked his goddess for her protection along the long and winding road that led him to this land, and this opportunity. He swore again that he would not waste any of it.

Had this idea for quite a while, but then you guys go on and vote to have him in a social vote, and utterly tank my ability to procrastinate. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
 
On the topic of the dragon, what priority are people thinking about for the anti-air/anti-magic towers? Right now the Grey Tower is a horrifically expensive investment that is extremely vulnerable to being wrecked by a pissed-off Emperor Dragon, and is also an obvious target from the sky. We should absolutely get those defenses if we ever plan on poking the dragon, but do we need them sooner?
If the dragon is every poked it will be when the best Slayers of Karak Kadrin are present, and if they can't do the job there was no hope in the first place.
 
Back
Top