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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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@huhYeahGoodPoint Your plan is 300 words exactly; I've taken the liberty of removing 1 word to get you to 299.
  • Reflection
    • (Following Keiko and Tenten's departure)
    • He insisted that Keiko wasn't allowed to stop arms-dealing to the Pangolin ahead of schedule, after she put in considerable thought towards mitigating the issues, on knee-jerk impulse to value the clan over the individual.
    • Hazou very recently expressed the opposite sentiment; the primary difference between then and now being Jiraiya's death and Hazou's assumption of Clan Head.
    • Hazou hated it when Jiraiya did it, so why does he think it's good now?
    • Jiraiya...Jiraiya was great. But - no, and - he had flaws, some of which Hazou picked up.
    • One of them was this. Hazou needs to acknowledge that he has valued the utility to the clan over the people, hurting Keiko and Mari.
      • He ordered Mari to attack Keiko, which deeply wounded both.
    • Resolve to discuss this with the clan.
      • Especially Keiko and Mari.
  • Mari
    • (Soon after reflection)
    • Admit your mistake in trying to override Keiko and using her to do so. Reaffirm you take full responsibility for her actions to protect the clan.
      • Amend your order: "protect the members of the clan". The clan means nothing if we treat it as an abstract ideal and harm its members.
      • "Clan" includes her: her well-being matters.
        • Her self-image is part of her well-being.
        • She's making progress; keep it up!
  • Ino
    • (Retroactively) Get Mari's help on a bouquet of mourning.
      • Considerations:
        • We're friends with Ino, allies to the Yamanaka, but were acquaintances with Inoichi.
      • Seal the bouquet in an empty seal.
    • Meet Ino at the wedding party.
      • Compliment her dress.
      • Express that we're always up to talking with her.
      • Gift her the bouquet seal.
      • Business:
        • Who are the Yamanaka supporting for the Hat?
        • Is there anything we can do to help?
        • Can she introduce us to the diplomatic corps?
      • Thank her for her time.
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faflec said:
@Noumero I understand perfectly if you disagree, but is the discussion on the Ami meeting all that necessary? If we're doing it in another plan anyway, wouldn't it be better for us to just have a brief note to schedule a meeting with her and when that comes around, put what you have here into that plan? It saves on word count here and now, and we can put other stuff in it...like giving our allies our condolences, which we really should be on top of, like, yesterday.
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Why not both? What do you have in mind — schedule a wake, send letters, talk to people at the wedding, go meet Ino?

Sentient Tree said:
Again, this has probably been brought up, but in case it hasn't, should we ask Keiko too? She is Ami's sister and is extremely possessive of her, so I doubt she'll be happy with us planning something involving Ami without notifying her. Furthermore, she would be better able to estimate Ami's capability to accomplish a given task than we are. In fact, didn't she partially chew us out last time for not including her in planning the first Ami date?
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Eh, I don't know.
  • Keiko was hurt by us not involving her previously for a wide array of circumstances that aren't present anymore. We're already involved with Ami, Keiko isn't estranged from her, Ami is more-or-less supposedly friendly to us.
  • Asking Keiko that seems kind of weird. "How can I best exploit your beloved sister?", "Do you reckon I can get another favour out of her for that?".
  • Nothing stops us from informing Keiko prior to meeting Ami next update.
  • Actually I'll just add a line about asking Keiko to invite Ami into the compound ASAP because we want to spend our favours. Keiko can involve herself if she wants.
Roomba said:
I think the first thing we should do here, is undo our initial mistake, and demonstrate that we understand why she felt she needed to do this. Actually, that's the second thing; the first should be to reaffirm that we're not going to try to persuade her to change her decision - Mari poisoned the well for us quite thoroughly, as what we need to say here will sound similar to how she structured her attempt.
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Done.

... Probably; not sure how you want us to "undo our initial mistake". Honestly, I think both parties were at fault here: neither Hazou nor Keiko modeled each other correctly.
Roomba said:
Thank her for intervening? What does that even mean. Her intervention was a request for permission to manipulate Keiko to the clan's ends. We don't want to thank her for that.
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Deleted it. @Vecht, any objections?
Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Impure World Domination
Wordcount: 387
  • Aftermath:
    • Talk to Keiko. Reaffirm you're still family.
      • CCnJ: You won't ask her to change her decision, but you both could've handled that better. Hazou should've paid more attention to her mental state, and shouldn't have tried to override her after she made her decision clear. Keiko shouldn't have presented us with an ultimatum; she should've trusted us enough to discuss it in advance, to at least consider other options.
      • Suggest salvaging Keiko's relations with the Pangolins by claiming Hazou ordered to end the deal.
    • Talk to Mari. Admit your mistake in trying to override Keiko. Reaffirm your full responsibility over any actions she takes to protect the clan.
      • Amend your order: "protect the members of the clan". "Clan" means nothing if we treat it as an abstract ideal and allow its members to come to harm.
      • "Clan" includes her: her well-being matters.
  • Consider acquiring intel on the Hagoromo's internal politics, perhaps by covertly fishing for information in bars. Considering your disguise skills...
    • ... or lack thereof. How do you wear a wig again? Or appear older/feminine? Practice with mirror.
    • Do you have IN movements for putting on disguises? Reflect on the first time you used them. Something is... off. It's been off for weeks, since you lost disguise kits.
    • What about spotting disguise? Logically, if you suspect an infiltrator, you should check their height, weight... but instead you're inclined to hit them? And Noburi too...
  • Meet with Kagome and Mari (high-security room, Silent Mines + Anti-Hyuuga Seals).
    • Describe your disguise-related concerns.
    • Mari, an infiltration specialist: Did you notice anything wrong? Has Hazou gone mad?
    • Kagome: any idea what happened?
    • Discuss the topic in-depth. Figure out whether you or the world is crazy; pin down how exactly.
    • Classify it accordingly (need-to-know?).
  • Update Mari on our experience with Ami in Mist.
    • If investigation into disguises bore fruits: suggest exchanging Ami that information for a favour. (She may be already investigating this: avoid information leaks.)
    • Suggested requests:
      • Politics:
        • Open-ended: "Work with me to maximize my personal influence on Leaf politics."
        • Specific: Assist the Gouketsu against the Hyuuga bloc.
      • Social:
        • Open-ended: "Maximize my social competence over the next half-a-year".
        • Specific: Arrange for IN social training.
      • Are specific or open-ended requests better?
  • Ask Keiko to invite Ami to the compound ASAP: you want to spend your favour.
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Noumero said:
Why not both? What do you have in mind — schedule a wake, send letters, talk to people at the wedding, go meet Ino?
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Talk to politically relevant people such as Ino, ideally before or during the wedding. After is fine, as long as we talk to them soonest. Expressing our condolences is the big thing, but if it's during the wedding I can understand skipping that if it's not the right time. We just need to show that the Goketsu Clan gives a fuck about Leaf and that we're with them in these trying times etc. etc..

And I wouldn't mind having both, but deleting your Ami section in its entirety puts your plan at 305 words. I can easily see us squeezing a simple socialization section into the plan while still having <300 words which grants us that sweet sweet XP. Just a thought.
Now to read over your plan...
Noumero said:
Aftermath:
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Would it be possible to specify this; aftermath can mean a lot of other things like "Aftermath of Shikamaru's -thing-" or "Aftermath of the wedding"? Maybe "Pangolin-blowup aftermath" or something...
Noumero said:
Ask Keiko to invite Ami to the compound ASAP: you want to spend your favour.
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Some part of me is paranoid that Keiko will try to get Ami in within the next 10 minutes and we won't have time to talk things over with Mari about how we're going to do things with Ami (of course, this may or may not matter if we talked beforehand).
 
Noumero said:
Aftermath:
  • Talk to Keiko. Reaffirm you're still family.
    • CCnJ: You won't ask her to change her decision, but you both could've handled that better. Hazou should've paid more attention to her mental state, and shouldn't have tried to override her after she made her decision clear. Keiko shouldn't have presented us with an ultimatum; she should've trusted us enough to discuss it in advance, to at least consider other options.
    • Suggest salvaging Keiko's relations with the Pangolins by claiming Hazou ordered to end the deal.
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Oh, one kajillion times yes! I am so pleased with this!

Add my voice to the "You rock @Noumero ! " pile.
 
MMKII said:
Oh, one kajillion times yes! I am so pleased with this!

Add my voice to the "You rock @Noumero ! " pile.
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I would actually suggest against the "consider other options" phrasing -- she was pretty clearly set on ending it, and that kind of phrasing would piss me off if i were in her position. Instead, something like "to discuss the fallout of it" would be better -- Hazou himself was against this, after all, and talked to Jiraiya about it before. @Noumero
 
...alright, so I posted a thought earlier and it wasn't really responded to; I'm not sure if it wasn't noticed or if nobody agreed, so I'm going to repeat it.
eaglejarl said:
"It will take some time for you to learn the necessary skills of a Summoner," Keiko said to Noburi. "Do not sign the scroll until you have completed the relevant training. If you do, you will die."

Noburi's eyebrows went up. "Well, that wasn't intimidating at all." He shook his head. "Do you think you can teach me?"

Keiko hesitated. "Perhaps? I am uncertain and I would be afraid of doing it improperly. You might be better off going to Sarutobi Asuma. He is the Monkey Summoner and, given who his father was, Sarutobi is far more likely to be a competent teacher than I."
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Keiko's been doing this a lot with regards to the Summoning Scroll. In a previous chapter she mentions foisting off the scroll onto Noburi, and makes the excuse that he'd be better served using it than her. I'd assumed when reading that it was just another example of her shitty self-worth, but with the most recent chapter it's clear that Keiko's other reason was to get her the fuck away from being involved with the weapons-selling business.

I'm concerned that Keiko's actions towards the Toad Scroll is similar to the above, and that Keiko may have tried to distance herself from teaching Noburi in an effort to keep herself from being involved in hypothetical weapons-selling business. Should she come to believe that we're intending to continue in this regard (which may or may not be true), and we put pressure on her to teach Noburi...well. I worry that Keiko might try to sabotage Noburi's training.
 
faflec said:
...alright, so I posted a thought earlier and it wasn't really responded to; I'm not sure if it wasn't noticed or if nobody agreed, so I'm going to repeat it.

Keiko's been doing this a lot with regards to the Summoning Scroll. In a previous chapter she mentions foisting off the scroll onto Noburi, and makes the excuse that he'd be better served using it than her. I'd assumed when reading that it was just another example of her shitty self-worth, but with the most recent chapter it's clear that Keiko's other reason was to get her the fuck away from being involved with the weapons-selling business.

I'm concerned that Keiko's actions towards the Toad Scroll is similar to the above, and that Keiko may have tried to distance herself from teaching Noburi in an effort to keep herself from being involved in hypothetical weapons-selling business. Should she come to believe that we're intending to continue in this regard (which may or may not be true), and we put pressure on her to teach Noburi...well. I worry that Keiko might try to sabotage Noburi's training.
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On one hand, I can definitely see her trying to delay his training to the point where we get frustrated and go to someone else. On the other hand, Noburi could die if he tries to summon with sabotaged training.

As much as Keiko dislikes seemingly most of the things we're doing, I would hope that she would still be unwilling to kill Noburi over it.
 
Raichu1972 said:
On one hand, I can definitely see her trying to delay his training to the point where we get frustrated and go to someone else. On the other hand, Noburi could die if he tries to summon with sabotaged training.

As much as Keiko dislikes seemingly most of the things we're doing, I would hope that she would still be unwilling to kill Noburi over it.
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Velorien said:
"I am Mori. I have been trained to know the numbers. Those who do not know the numbers have no right to think of war as a tool."
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Consider then, how many Pandaas will be bought with the life of one barrel boy.
 
faflec said:
Consider then, how many Pandaas will be bought with the life of one barrel boy.
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Tbh, if we've gotten to the point where Keiko is willing to kill her brother than a lot of people have fucked up in a lot of places, and I'm not really sure what to do about it.

But semi related to that subject, it might not actually be a good idea to mass adopt clanless right now.
Out of the six people in our clan, one is extremely distrustful of everyone and possibly about to leave (Keiko) and the other is in full social fu "win by any means" mode, even to those of her own clan (Mari).

Bringing in new people who no one in the Clan are super familiar with will likely only exacerbate these issues, while also likely causing problems for one of the relatively stable members of the Clan (Kagome) right now.

I'm just worried we might fracture if we try to reach too far too fast.

Edit: It might even be better to get Noburi to stop looking for recruits and to go on damage control for Keiko. I've been wondering why he hasn't been using his socials to help us out with that before I remembered that we had him off doing other things.
 
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faflec said:
Do neither. Talk to Chouza and Chouji, then segue into Ino. ISC are a group so it shouldn't be hard, and even if we don't talk to Ino we still got to send condolences to the Akimichi.

Edit: And then talk to Ino about light stuff, then if appropriate give condolences.
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Okay, so I'm still thinking it over; the problem for me is that it feels longer, but it's been like three to four days tops since we were on the way back from Mist. There's almost nothing to talk about except the Battle of the Gods, and well, that's not exactly small talk.
I just genuinely don't know what small talk we can even say to Chouza/Choji.
faflec said:
@huhYeahGoodPoint Your plan is 300 words exactly; I've taken the liberty of removing 1 word to get you to 299.
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faflec said:
Talk to politically relevant people such as Ino, ideally before or during the wedding. After is fine, as long as we talk to them soonest. Expressing our condolences is the big thing, but if it's during the wedding I can understand skipping that if it's not the right time. We just need to show that the Goketsu Clan gives a fuck about Leaf and that we're with them in these trying times etc. etc..

And I wouldn't mind having both, but deleting your Ami section in its entirety puts your plan at 305 words. I can easily see us squeezing a simple socialization section into the plan while still having <300 words which grants us that sweet sweet XP. Just a thought.
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I'm going to veto expressing condolences during the wedding for meta reasons: EagleJarl undoubtedly wants to write the henge discussion, and if we put this and the Mari/Keiko discussions before it, he'll be unable to get to it.

Afterwards, everything is supposed to happen fairly quickly: we think about disguises, get Mari and Kagome into the room, discuss this and then Ami, then ask Keiko to get us Ami ASAP. I don't want to take out discussing favours for the same reason: my plan puts us in a convenient position to immediately do it with Mari (timely + private).

I'll send a bouquet to Ino, though.
Would it be possible to specify this; aftermath can mean a lot of other things like "Aftermath of Shikamaru's -thing-" or "Aftermath of the wedding"? Maybe "Pangolin-blowup aftermath" or something...
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Done.
Some part of me is paranoid that Keiko will try to get Ami in within the next 10 minutes and we won't have time to talk things over with Mari about how we're going to do things with Ami (of course, this may or may not matter if we talked beforehand).
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But I've arranged it so that we first talk to Mari, then ask this? I could drop that line under "Discuss Ami with Mari", would that help? (Actually, that's not going to happen because it's an EagleJarl update and EagleJarl has trouble writing Ami.

(Come to think of it, that's exploitable — it could be used to enforce exit conditions! We also know that Velorien has trouble writing Kagome. If we explicitly schedule events so that our plans end at a particular time XOR Velorien/EagleJarl has to write Kagome/Ami, that ensures that our plans end when we want them to!

Like so (for EagleJarl):
  • 10 AM: Offer condolences to Ino.
  • 11 AM: Research basket weaving.
    • IFF you successfully made ten baskets: immediately go to argue Deontology vs. Utilitarianism with Ami.
  • 2 PM: Talk to Mari and Keiko.
  • 3 PM: Discuss My Vision with Ami.
This is a flawless strategy that could not possibly go wrong. QMs can't even read it — I hid it under two parentheses!))
Cariyaga said:
I would actually suggest against the "consider other options" phrasing
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Would "discuss" be better?
Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Impure World Domination
Wordcount: 396
  • Last-night aftermath:
    • Talk to Keiko. Reaffirm you're still family.
      • CCnJ: You won't ask her to change her decision, but you both could've handled that better. Hazou should've paid more attention to her mental state, and shouldn't have tried to override her after she made her decision clear. Keiko shouldn't have presented us with an ultimatum; she should've trusted us enough to bring it up in advance, at least discuss other options.
      • Suggest salvaging Keiko's relations with the Pangolins by claiming Hazou ordered to end the deal.
    • Talk to Mari. Admit your mistake in trying to override Keiko. Reaffirm your full responsibility over any actions she takes to protect the clan.
      • Amend your order: "protect the members of the clan". "Clan" means nothing if we treat it as an abstract ideal and allow its members to come to harm.
      • "Clan" includes her: her well-being matters.
  • Consider acquiring intel on the Hagoromo's internal politics, perhaps by covertly fishing for information in bars. Considering your disguise skills...
    • ... or lack thereof. How do you wear a wig again? Or appear older/feminine? Practice with mirror.
    • Do you have IN movements for putting on disguises? Reflect on the first time you used them. Something is... off. It's been off for weeks, since you lost disguise kits.
    • What about spotting disguise? Logically, if you suspect an infiltrator, you should check their height, weight... but instead you're inclined to hit them? And Noburi too...
  • Meet with Kagome and Mari (high-security room, Silent Mines + Anti-Hyuuga Seals).
    • Describe your disguise-related concerns.
    • Mari, an infiltration specialist: Did you notice anything wrong? Has Hazou gone mad?
    • Kagome: any idea what happened?
    • Discuss the topic in-depth. Figure out whether you or the world is crazy. Pin down how exactly.
    • Classify it accordingly (need-to-know?).
  • Update Mari on our experience with Ami in Mist.
    • If investigation into disguises bore fruits: suggest exchanging Ami that information for a favour. (She may be already investigating this: avoid information leaks.)
    • Suggested requests:
      • Politics:
        • Open-ended: "Work with me to maximize my personal influence on Leaf politics."
        • Specific: Assist the Gouketsu against the Hyuuga bloc.
      • Social:
        • Open-ended: "Maximize my social competence over the next half-a-year".
        • Specific: Arrange for IN social training.
      • Are specific or open-ended requests better?
  • Ask Keiko to invite Ami to the compound ASAP: you want to spend your favour.
  • Send Ino a mourning bouquet (with Mari's assistance).
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Cariyaga said:
[X] Seal: Extrasensory Seal
e:
@eaglejarl Is it safe to say that Hazou will be going about this in Kagome-approved methods rather than rushing it as we did before in our ignorance of the mechanics?
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It's safe to assume that Hazō follows Kagome-approved methods unless there's a good reason for him not to. Direction from the players would be one such example, in-game time pressure would be another. In this case, he's following the Kagome protocols, right down to doing the Butt Wiggle Dance before each infusion attempt.

faflec said:
Talk to politically relevant people such as Ino, ideally before or during the wedding.
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The wedding is over and we're not doing any more retroactive updates right now.
 
eaglejarl said:
It's safe to assume that Hazō follows Kagome-approved methods unless there's a good reason for him not to. Direction from the players would be one such example, in-game time pressure would be another. In this case, he's following the Kagome protocols, right down to doing the Butt Wiggle Dance before each infusion attempt.


The wedding is over and we're not doing any more retroactive updates right now.
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sighs

activates time machine to grab his Ino section from before
 
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