It seems incredibly condescending for Hazou to ignore this and decide that he knows better, and that he is going to attempt to "fix" their relationship.
And so one of the plans is not actually taking this tact at all, that Hazou is not presuming to "fix" this relationship with the current plan, just meet as individuals and get to know each other without poking our nose in to fiddle with the messy mechanics of Keiko's relationships.
 
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A lot of the discussion on Ami has been focussed on how risky it is or what we can gain/learn from her, but it seems like we're ignoring how disrespectful this is to Keiko. We all seem to be in agreement that Keiko would not want us to be interacting in general with Ami while their relationship is so fraught, and that she definitely would not appreciate Hazou meddling in the relationship in particular.

It seems incredibly condescending for Hazou to ignore this and decide that he knows better, and that he is going to attempt to "fix" their relationship.

If it's not with the intention of fixing their relationship, there's no compelling reason for Hazou to ignore Keiko's wishes and go and talk with the one person Keiko would request he avoid. Being a good sibling is very noble, but you would never go and talk to someone's estranged father or their ex just for tips on how to improve your relationship with them, at least if the person in question doesn't want you talking with their estranged relation.

I do think it would be a really interesting conversation to read, and I'd love for Hazou to be closer with her, if only because of how cool Ami is. But this is just so inconsiderate of Keiko if we're doing this for any other reason other than fixing their relationship, and so arrogant if we really are so confident, in character, that we're going to cause more good than harm by ignoring Keiko's wishes and stepping in.

[x] N Minus Ami
[X] O Minus Ami
It's possible to want to help without possessing some sort of condescending sense of superiority over the person you want to help. Sometimes just being a third party makes it possible to do things the people directly involved can't, by mediating or offering an outside perspective. People do this all the time when two people they know have problems with one another.
 
[X] Action Plan: Hazou's Busy Day Plus One

[x] Action Plan: Hazou's Busy Day To The Power Of Minus One
 
@Oneiros I don't suppose there would be any way you'd be willing to put talking about Keiko to Ami back in your plan? I think that without that obvious talking point that both parties will want to broach, there's much less point to the meeting, and us getting a second one is much less likely (both in game and planning wise). I think @Roomba also made a great point about the "pretty damn far" commonality we might have with Ami.
 
We should just kill Ami, that way we don't have to deal with all this madness.
Then we should kill Keiko first!
My plan, "Gambling, Claymore Clones, and Banshee Fucking", does both of these. Would you vote for it?
[х] Action Plan: Gambling, Claymore Clones, and Banshee Fucking
Wordcount: 162.
  • Gambling:
    • Schedule a meeting with the Oyabun in the near future.
      • If he is available: Hash out an agreement on gambling.
      • If he is not available: Well, it's not like we wanted to talk to him all that much anyway.
        • Leave him a note: "Baka".
    • Spend at least six hours each day gambling in casinos as a team, whether you get the Oyabun's agreement or not.
  • Claymore Clones:
    • Every hour, create a clone, equip it with ten explosive tags, and send it out to wander around Mist.
    • If someone tries to kidnap it or otherwise violently engage with it, it is to explode itself.
    • Refill chakra and make new seals as necessary.
  • Banshee Fucking:
    • On the day of your match with Keiko, prepare ten Banshee Fuckers and two Banshee Slayer.
    • Equip Banshee Slayers, activate them.
    • Once you're within the area of effect of the sound amplification field, activate all Banshee Fuckers in quick succession.
      • Finish the survivors with Youthenizers.
    • Warn no one.
 
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And so one of the plans is not actually taking this tact at all, that Hazou is not presuming to "fix" this relationship with the current plan, just meet as individuals and get to know each other without poking our nose in to fiddle with the messy mechanics of Keiko's relationships.
Yeah, but that is inconsiderate in the sense that it's just painful to Keiko for us to go befriending the person she cares the most about but who doesn't reciprocate those feelings (as far as Hazou and Keiko have any reason to believe).
It's possible to want to help without possessing some sort of condescending sense of superiority over the person you want to help. Sometimes just being a third party makes it possible to do things the people directly involved can't, by mediating or offering an outside perspective. People do this all the time when two people they know have problems with one another.
I completely agree in general! But I think it's arrogant for Hazou to unilaterally decide to insert himself as a mediator here given that he knows absolutely nothing about Ami's reasoning and therefore has no reason to think that his meditation would be useful and that he knows Keiko doesn't want him to be interacting with Ami.
 
Yeah, but that is inconsiderate in the sense that it's just painful to Keiko for us to go befriending the person she cares the most about but who doesn't reciprocate those feelings (as far as Hazou and Keiko have any reason to believe)
I'm not sure I'd call it that either.

I think we've hung out with ISC a fair bit more than any other folks in Leaf at this point, save maybe Team Gai. We still only speak to Ino on a first name basis.
 
I'm not sure I'd call it that either.

I think we've hung out with ISC a fair bit more than any other folks in Leaf at this point, save maybe Team Gai. We still only speak to Ino on a first name basis.
I'm confused.. what do our interactions with ISC have to do with our reaching out to Ami? I don't think Keiko cares more about them than her sister.
 
My issue is more a "I don't think this is the best way to do this" sort of thing. It'd be smarter to wait, get implosion seals from Kagome, and make a transfinite bomb.
But... it'd be easier to do that if the number of powerful ninja bothering us and getting in our way goes down, no? We could probably even alpha-strike all other villages proper with the Skywalkers, if we're quick with the proverbial knife, and then there'll be nobody to interrupt our research.

@Radvic, what do you think?
 
By the way @Radvic I think the top 4 plans all engage with your list in at least some way, though I must say I enjoy @Noumero's Sand Genin part since getting them to start this till-n-fill stuff seems like a decent prize for casual interaction.
I'm confused.. what do our interactions with ISC have to do with our reaching out to Ami? I don't think Keiko cares more about them than her sister.

My point was that casual, even continuous interactions with people do not automatically make us best buds with a good relationship.

I dont think the goal is to be good friends with Ami, or even be on anything but "Neutralish and Polite Terms" with Ami, just to figure out what this enigma character is about, if even a little bit.
 
I completely agree in general! But I think it's arrogant for Hazou to unilaterally decide to insert himself as a mediator here given that he knows absolutely nothing about Ami's reasoning and therefore has no reason to think that his meditation would be useful and that he knows Keiko doesn't want him to be interacting with Ami.

Has Keiko said that? And if Hazou could find a way for her to spend time with Ami, wouldn't that make her happy?
 
By the way @Radvic I think the top 4 plans all engage with your list in at least some way, though I must say I enjoy @Noumero's Sand Genin part since getting them to start this till-n-fill stuff seems like a decent prize for casual interaction.


My point was that casual, even continuous interactions with people do not automatically make us best buds with a good relationship.

I dont think the goal is to be good friends with Ami, or even be on anything but "Neutralish and Polite Terms" with Ami, just to figure out what this enigma character is about, if even a little bit.

Gotcha. Yeah the word "befriending" was the wrong word to use there perhaps. I think we're already on neutral terms though, but now we're actively reaching out to Ami. I definitely agree with you that she's interesting, but imagine a similar situation where a close friend has recently been broken up with. I would be polite with the ex, and maybe if circumstances threw us into contact often, I'd even become friends with them. I'd definitely not reach out to them just to get to know them better because they seem like an interesting person, or even if they might have something to offer me, unless I'd talked to my friend first.
 
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Has Keiko said that? And if Hazou could find a way for her to spend time with Ami, wouldn't that make her happy?
My model of Keiko thinks she'd be strongly against this, and so far that's mostly been the opinion offered in the thread. I could definitely be wrong though, and if the plan called for asking her, I wouldn't have these concerns. As far as I can tell, the reason why the plans don't have that is because the writers are pretty certain Keiko would say "hell no, stay out of my business".
 
Gotcha. Yeah the word "befriending" was the wrong word to use there perhaps. I think we're already on neutral terms though, but now we're actively reaching out to Ami. I definitely agree with you that she's interesting, but imagine a similar situation where a close friend has recently been broken up with. I would be polite with the ex, and maybe if circumstances threw us into contact often, I'd even become friends with them. I'd definitely not reach out to them just to get to know them better because they seem like an interesting person, or even if they might have something to offer me, unless I'd talked to my friend first.
Well, as I said earlier, it sort of changes things a bit when you recall that she is a superhuman killing machine that is scary enough to have blackmail on one of the most powerful people in the world.
 
Final observation: I don't know if we really want Ami to become the special envoy. Because she has all the reason in the world to absolutely hate Mari. One Hana incident was enough.
Dear god.


MARI: *cracks a smile, is almost recovered*

HAZOU: And thats how I used social skills to cover up an OPSEC breach! Aren't you proud?

MARI: I sure am Hazou, I sure am.

KAGOME: Whats that noise?

BOOOOM

AMI: *kool-aid mans through the door*

HAZOU: Fu-

AMI: The special envoy to Leaf is here! And I've been told that the Heartbreaker is also here! Here is my housewarming present!!

*unseals skeleton*

AMI: Say hi to your uncle!
 
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