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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Except we've talked about this, where getting interrupted in the year can easily cost us something important, and having a "free period" is thus a good idea.
KnightDisciple said:
Which answers? I'm skimming the train wreck thread (not even to the newest page yet).
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Gore17 said:
Wait, thought. If/when he reforms, how are we going to unseal him with the various options?

I suppose with sealing him inside ourself, and our control of the Seal, we could in theory make it "porous" to the point it vanishes and he's released, but what about if we shrink him down to size?

Hmm.... I suppose that we could include a write-in for the chibify option that allows us to release or restrict him at will. Something like this?

-[] Include a way for you to loosen or strengthen the seal on his body and power at will.

@PoptartProdigy, thoughts? Also, sorry for calling upon you so much today. :oops:
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PoptartProdigy said:
S'in your head, which makes it yours. Tell it to fuck off and not come back, and off it goes.
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Gore17 said:
Which leaves the issue of: if we seal into chibi form, how do we undo that? Unless we still have control over it with that option?
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PoptartProdigy said:
You do not have control over it, and the sorcerers are supremely reluctant to introduce the complication and risk unforeseen consequences. Which does mean removing it could be a problem, yes.
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Basically, with the "seal into small, powerless form", there's no easy "release seal" option. Instead, to break the Seal, we'd have to equal the skill and power which went into making it. In this case, one sorcerer to shape it, 9,999 to amp it up and a Genki Dama formed by the entire population of Garenhuld to empower it.

This is, as you might guess, a bit hard to justify and pull off.
 
Gore17 said:
Like, most of these people? They vote occassionally, but not all the time. It's just that right now, instead of being split over dozens of updates, they're all voting together, and you can actually see how many there actually are.
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Poptart basically pulled a "People of SV give me your votes!".

With all the info we have I'm a lot more ambivalent as to which vote wins, but I can't pass up the chance for this:
 
Astaroh-M said:
Or, she could spend that time with her friends just hanging out, but of course making her enjoy her time as teenager is a "waste".
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She already does that, though. Like, earlier this year Jaffur called her out on spending so much time hanging out with her friends instead for training for the Dragon.

There is a persistent misconception in this thread that Kakara does not have any social life outside of the actions taken, and it is nonsense. She manages her time well, but she has an active and healthy social life - if she didn't those relationships would have degraded in the years we didn't explicitly spend actions on them, because you don't stay close friends with someone you barely see for a year.

Gore17 said:
Except we've talked about this, where getting interrupted in the year can easily cost us something important, and having a "free period" is thus a good idea.
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It's really not. It's saying that it's better to lose your least-wanted option rather than be forced to lose a choice of two random ones - which has only happened once in 6 years. Otherwise, we would have either just used the exact same amount of actions one year, and the other four years we would have just dropped an action.

You're asking us to make a choice that sort-of pays off 1/6 times, has no effect 1/6 times, and just straight-up wastes an action 4/6 times, and it is nonsense. Just pick a relaxing action.
 
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Basically, Kakara controls the settings of the seal inside of her, so she can adjust how it behaves depending of the situation (as long as it doesn't contradict the concept the sorcerers are using to make the seal) while chibi requires a ritual like the one we are doing now for any modification.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
She already does that, though. Like, earlier this year Jaffur called her out on spending so much time hanging out with her friends instead for training for the Dragon.

There is a persistent misconception in this thread that Kakara does not have any social life outside of the actions taken, and it is nonsense. She manages her time well, but she has an active and healthy social life - if she didn't those relationships would have degraded in the years we didn't explicitly spend actions on them, because you don't stay close friends with someone you barely see for a year.


It's really not. It's saying that it's better to lose your least-wanted option rather than be forced to lose a random one - which has only happened once in 6 years. Otherwise, we would have either just used the exact same amount of actions one year, and the other four years we would have just dropped an action.

You're asking us to make a choice that sort-of pays off 1/6 times, has no effect 1/6 times, and just straight-up wastes an action 4/6 times, and it is nonsense. Just pick a relaxing action.
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...Didn't she had a little mental breakdown because of the pressure she had this year? She can't deal with Jaron's level of training.

And honestly I think is very funny that for all the complains of Jaron, the move that let us win was the Spirit Bomb, the most Social and "calm" move of all DB. :p
 
Astaroh-M said:
...Didn't she had a little mental breakdown because of the pressure she had this year? She can't deal with Jaron's level of training.

And honestly I think is very funny that for all the complains of Jaron, the move that let us win was the Spirit Bomb, the most Social and "calm" move of all DB. :p
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That's entirely correct, which is why I'm hoping to spend an action on Ki Tricks (as stated above) and two on Drama Club, which should also be a good social action. It's also a way to level Deceit, but since that's up to Competent now it probably wouldn't be worth spending two actions on if we weren't looking for more social/fun stuff.

And of course, Multiform increasing actions without cramming them into the same amount of time means we're on a less strict budget, which means we can afford to spend more on actions that aren't crisis management or keeping up with training. But that won't take effect for another year.
 
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Gore17 said:
It's outright mentioned to render him completely harmless, and you're still worried about "what if he could harm us". *sighs*
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I don't doubt that the seal would be safe, if we left it at that. But Kakara did not share the fact that she might try to gain some kind of power from him as well, which I think has a high likelihood of affecting the level of risk involved, because, as I said, it would be more dramatic if a potential power boost from an evil creature was dangerous. Deals with the devil, you know? Even if it turns out be completely risk-free, it's still gotta cost some amount of actions to exploit, and we already have plenty of things to do, and paths to follow. I'd prefer to minimize adding to the pile.
 
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).

Y'know what? This is just glorious.

Also, chibi dragon just now lost a vote.

Because anarchy by democracy.

The only thing I'm really even slightly concerned about is what happens when we have a vision and go elsewhere, but the Sorcerer described it well enough that I don't believe this will 'default' control over the body (or the Seal) to him.

Let's get our shoulder devil into our head, in dragon form.

If nothing else, we have a *superb* deterrent for keeping Dandeer from killing us - the dragon in our head would make that MAD, unless she got a chance to study the Seal herself. Which she won't, because why would we let her cast magic on us? Or exist peacefully near enough to study it?
 
Darkfire said:
I can't be the only one who sees the blatant use of brainwashing technique here? I'd rather convince him without isolating him socially with his only contact being Kakara whom is quite the good diplomancer.

Whether this is actually brainwashing is (very) debatable, but it's still somewhat disappointing seeing Kakara use that type of tactic.
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We seemed ok with it as a way to calm down/reform Jaffur back when it was first revealed that Jaron was his own person. Kakara even mentioned to the Senzu that it seemed like it was doing him some good. I mean, the situation is different because this time we are doing it on purpose but it doesn't change that we acknowledged it happening to Jaffur after the Those Without and Those Within interlude.
 
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).
 
Astaroh-M said:
Right sorry, that's arguably worse though, not only she will have to deal with the responsabilities, she has to deal with her hormones too, yeah, her headspace isn't going to be the best place for a while.
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What sort of Hormones are you expecting that would make us let out space smaug/hitler?

I'm not in favor of sealing him in our head, but seriously.
 
NavySeel said:
What sort of Hormones are you expecting that would make us let out space smaug/hitler?

I'm not in favor of sealing him in our head, but seriously.
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I think he meant that she is going to be dealing with enough pressure from her already existing responsabilities and hormones for us to be adding more to the pile by making her the only one responsible for reforming Dazzarel.

I chose to interpret it as meaning that to have Dazzarel constantly deal with someone entering their teenage years as his only source of human interaction is a cruel an unusual punishment regardless of crimes commited.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I do NOT want Kakara going down the road of "I become lethal and/or dangerously power-hungry."
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To reinforce this point:

People forget that we are in the process of organizing a conspiracy against our father in order to release Jaffur from his seal. We are going to have enough problems as it is convincing other people and the rest of society in it's aftermath that we're not attempting to overthrow the rightful order of things without having people worrying whether the Seal is malfunctioning like it was for Jaffur.

Walking around with a head dragon is going to do Bad Things to our credibility.
And I REALLY don't want Berra to worry how much of our behavior is because of the Dragon in our head.

Versharl said:
You know, I was initially fine with either of the two options winning but I really don't like the way the anti-headpet people have been arguing their case. The argument about the socialisation of Dazarel and ensuring that the information he possesses doesn't fall into the wrong hands are also fairly strong arguments pro-headpet.
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No they aren't.
Actively attempting to socialize a person is more than having the person shadow you in your head.
And frankly, incarcerating him in your head leaves you with very few carrots to induce good behavior.

As for information, what information?

That there are Saiyan out in the galaxy? The Exiles know this, and humans know there are alien invaders coming, ever since the School Incident.
That there are ki-users? That's public. That there was a major battle? Kakara literally talked to everyone on the planet during this battle, and we see farmers noting the seismic and sonic effects during it's.

And it's not like Daz was subtle during orbital re-entry.

There is no information he is currently in possession of that actually is an infohazard.
And given the hundreds of thousands of Saiyans on the planet, your average teenager is a greater information risk for than a chibi Dragon.

EDIT
Current tally is
Chibi 58: Head dragon 61.25
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Mar 2, 2018 at 1:08 PM, finished with 538 posts and 105 votes.
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[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).
 
Thriceboiled said:
I am slightly baffled that people think that the best way to socialise him is to put him in our head so he can only ever talk to one person.
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I don't get it myself.

I disagree with the people doing it for power, but I understand why they are doing it.
The people touting socialization as a reason, though, I have no idea. Socialization is an active affair that you learn by doing, not watching.
Ditto empathy; it's hard to get a mountain-sized dragon to care about the sufferings of little folk if he doesn't have gut-deep experience of the same thing.

Children do not learn socialization by watching other people through a telescope and talking with their parents.
Immigrants do not assimilate into a society by staying at home and watching TV.
I don't know how you expect to be socialized by looking out someone else's eyes; at best, you develop a rapport with your jailer.

Kakara is a diplomatic-specced PC, but she has limits, and she has a limited number of actions to spare on socialising Daz while prepping for her other responsibilities. And I really do not give credence to the idea that watching her interact with other people will somehow bring enlightenment.
 
On balance, I think I'll leave my vote where it is - I just don't care about the powerup at all, and the possible impact on our reputation and relationship with Berra who we'll be "betraying" soon is just too much. I also think we're going to spend an action on Dazarel even if we have him in our head, so I don't think we'll actually save an action there.

On an entirely unrelated note (because I'm just full of these) I just noticed that our current skill in Jaffur's trick (listed as Ki Refinement, which I'll have to start using) isn't Unlearned, it's Poor. The scale goes [Lethal, Calamitous, Incompetent, Poor, Unpromising, Unlearned, Competent, Talented, Exceptional, Elite, Legendary] which means that it has a great deal of room to grow and improve - I honestly think that this makes the theory that it's related to God Ki more likely.
 
Also, sealing him inside us (assuming we can exploit him for power) shifts the already lopsided power balance in Saiyan society even more towards clan Goku, which will look pretty worrying from clan Vegeta's standpoint as we've already clawed back a fair chunk of political power.
 
uju32 said:
I don't get it myself.

I disagree with the people doing it for power, but I understand why they are doing it.
The people touting socialization as a reason, though, I have no idea. Socialization is an active affair that you learn by doing, not watching.
Ditto empathy; it's hard to get a mountain-sized dragon to care about the sufferings of little folk if he doesn't have gut-deep experience of the same thing.

Children do not learn socialization by watching other people through a telescope and talking with their parents.
Immigrants do not assimilate into a society by staying at home and watching TV.
I don't know how you expect to be socialized by looking out someone else's eyes; at best, you develop a rapport with your jailer.

Kakara is a diplomatic-specced PC, but she has limits, and she has a limited number of actions to spare on socialising Daz while prepping for her other responsibilities. And I really do not give credence to the idea that watching her interact with other people will somehow bring enlightenment.
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It's less watching her interact with other people and more being let in on her emotions. That's not something he could get so directly as that if he was on his own.
 
Cariyaga said:
It's less watching her interact with other people and more being let in on her emotions. That's not something he could get so directly as that if he was on his own.
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But... then we'd have to actively share our innermost thoughts or emotions for it to work. That's super fucking intrusive. No. A thousand times no. If this is actually the plan if head-seal wins, I am 100% against it again.
 
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