Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Czech Republic
Honestly I don't care all that much about how long we will have the job. What I care about is if we will be able to focus on things outside of our job without things catching on fire.
And I just don't see that with edgelord, and to some degree with bodyguar
And I just don't see that with edgelord, and to some degree with bodyguar
- Location
- Brazil
If there is something else that catches our fancy or we are tired of the job, we can gracefully quit after whatever the current assignment is, which should be no more than a year or two, given our history as Loremaster. The problems we tackle on that end are specific and clearly defined.
When will there be enough bridges, roads, farms and towns that people aren't going to support a real Carstein that shows up and wants to do the next installment of Vampire Wars?
We can't possibly know unless it happens.
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- Location
- United States
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] The Waystone Project
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Count of Sylvania
[X] Spymaster of Wissenland
[X] Ambassador-at-Large to the Karaz Ankor
[X] Nagarythe
Sorry, I'm just not feeling the bodyguard position.
[X] The Waystone Project
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Count of Sylvania
[X] Spymaster of Wissenland
[X] Ambassador-at-Large to the Karaz Ankor
[X] Nagarythe
Sorry, I'm just not feeling the bodyguard position.
no, like, that's not what I'm saying.
I just saying that all the jobs will could take time.
and all the jobs can be left at some point.*
*what that point is will be up to the thread or Boeny
but pretending that 'it will never be done' to undermine it when the same can be said of two of the other options is unfair and just a argument tool, expeally when rose said its up to mathy to pick when to leave. in 100s of years or 10 years. its up to us.
the only option that we know the actual timescale for is Bodyguard.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Waystones and Markgraf were in the same preference category for me so despite the neck-to-neck I was still voting for neither. But I think that this just pushed me over the edge. And in the opposite direction of where I thought I would end up being pushed eventually.
If Markgraf and Waystones are both in the top 2 again, I'll vote Waystones.
Tutor and Nagarythe both do.
Social actions often imply additional off-screen social engagement.
Single choice voting would lead to the exact opposite result. People would stop voting for their favorite choice in order to support the "least bad" of the popular options. That in turn would distort the vote count and benefit not the most popular options, but the options that people think are popular. Like, Markgraf didn't have all that much discussion in support of it before the moratorium ended. People with it as their favorite might instead just have voted for Tutor, which got a lot of chatter.
The best system available for informed voters is instant-runoff. The best system that also minimizes genuine mistakes is Approval. But FPTP is always and objectively the worst and I'd only ever support it in some kind of Quest that has simulating political quagmires as its mission statement.
You know what would happen if we hid the tally while still openly voting through comments? People would dig out the old software that was used to tally things in this forum before Director Xon implemented their own. And then what? Only the savvy ones get to vote with a full picture at their disposal? And should we ban people who post their tallies? Should we ban people who do ballpark estimates with just their eyes and say things like "I'm pretty sure Margraf just beat Waystones"?
If you actively hate anything in a Quest you should maybe take a step back and re-center yourself. Like, I'd think you all a bit crazy if you had gone all in on Swamp Town, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Sinecure would be the only one to worry me. And that's less because of my dislike of the content and more because I would start developing an irrational fear that BoneyM would grow bored and fed up not just with this quest in particular, but with the SV voter base.
It would a) make discussion useless after the moratorium because people aren't even allowed to genuinely change their mind anymore and/or b) give a massive advantage to late voters and make people literally start playing chicken with the QM closing the vote.
Given their power disparity I fear that Cython might take it similar to someone going up to a professional programmer and saying "My cousin also likes computers. I'm sure you'd be good friends."
It was more of a 2v2 which, once we were behind, got our opponents ganked by four more people.
That can't be the official title though because people would start asking why a Grey LM took a post like that.
It's not that you can't make more. It's that it costs you an extra half-action if you make more. And that Dwarves are too traditionalist to muck with the classic Council structure.
I think the neck-to-neck-to-neck-to-neck nature of the vote also plays a large role. Like, when I see that my preferred option either is well in the lead or is most likely going to lose then I don't care much about voting. This way people feel like their voice really matters, on an important decision, for longer than 24 hours.
Don't twist Roswita's words in her mouth.
If we feel like we're not done we can still be reporting to Roswita's grandchildren. Being "done" doesn't mean transforming Sylvania into the Blessed Lands. If we decide it, it can mean anything from finding a trustworthy successor that can manage the institutions we set up to declaring any further improvement to be hopeless or bring marginal gain at best and leaving for where we are more actually useful.
I really have to pick that comic back up again. Is the quality still as good as a couple of years ago?Sylvania?
Why does it matter when Jyn is happy with leaving? They aren't our elected pro-Markgraf representative or anything.
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- Location
- Brazil
But the premise of Markgraf is that we have absolute carte blanche to handle it. It's entire up to us!
And unless we get to test it, we can't possibly know it's a done job. We can't set a reasonable standard when we can't measure objectively what would happen.
We can only guess if it will be enough, and that in itself is incredibly hard to do well.
That's the issue. How do we set that goal? How do we measure our completion?
We don't have progress bars to indicate X Infrastructure and Y Economy and Z Healthcare are left before the requisite minimum loyalty is reached.
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Yes, it's up to us. We would have the power to leave, that doesn't mean we would exercise that power. People can make generally accurate observations about the trends of voter behavior in response to various forms of stimuli, and use those observations to make predictions about the future. Doing so isn't what I would call a bad faith argument or illegitimate.
.... do you really think Boeny will not wake up a powerful vampire at some point?
canon* wise, all the major players will wake up in the next few years. (some a couple of times.)
* yes, I know 'don't take canon as quest canon'
no GM would not throw something that juicy at us at some point.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
What would be catching fire of we do our own stuff during the Tutor/Bodyguard job? Mandred isn't actually in danger on a daily basis and if Heidi doesn't literally get a pledge of loyalty from every single Elector, so what?
We invite a Vampire to take over Sylvania and sit back. If he fails without our intervention then we know we succeeded, clean up the mess, and say our goodbyes.
What do you mean, the study doesn't get approval from the ethics board?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Okay, but if we go into that conversation and say "my goal is to achieve [X, where X is not the complete and total pacification of Sylvania] and probably to not be in this position for longer than a decade."
I think that having explicitly laid out a shorter victory condition and gotten Mathilde and Rosie to buy into it, that voters will be okay with leaving after achieving X or only overshooting a little.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Isn't that literally just Mannfred? I don't think Konrad came back, Vlad didn't outside of the ET, Isabella the same.
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] The Waystone Project
[X] Nagarythe
[X] Research Sabbatical
[X] The Waystone Project
[X] Nagarythe
[X] Research Sabbatical
- Location
- Earth
Your argument is invalid. It's like saying that the only way the Waystone crowd will know they succeeded is by working on the Waystones until the next Storm of Chaos hits, and watching if they break it. No. The Waystone project is done when we can fix or enable, or turn on some of them.
Those are your fears and your expectations for the Sylvania job. Not those of the whole thread. I'd be happy as long as we leave the post in a better position then when we arrived. It's all anyone can reasonably expect of anyone. Stuff like breaking Drakenfalls, retaking K8Ps, and pulling a Karag out of Chaos are miracles for a reason. Regular expectations are just to improve the situation, not make it worse.
Roswita might be fine with Mat serving her grandchildren. But unless Sylvania turns out a lot more convoluted than expected, Mat will be leaving that post long before them. She's Ulgu, and the Brave, Adventurous kind. Eventually, she'll crave new stuff. Or we will, I suppose.
Like, if someone voting for the Waystone Project will only be happy if during it we figure out how to make new ones, not turn on, or just restore a couple of old ones? Boy, are they likely to be disappointed. I'd be happy with the Waystone Project even if we only manage to restore one major Waystone. Each one is a victory against Chaos comparable with adding 20k dwarves to the world.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
For the record, here are my expected times for each position:
• Bodyguard: Until Mandred's youth is no longer an overriding concern - him reaching the age of 18 at the latest, more likely 15. 10-13 years.
• Waystones: Until Laurelorn is either able to turn the Waystones they want back on, or we irreversibly stall out in progress. 15-20 years.
• Loremaster: Until the Karaz Ankor runs out of relevant problems for us to poke at. 5-10 years.
• Edgelord: Until Sylvania no longer reverts to a Von Carsten when one shows up. 30-150 years.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I think Boney will do that if the dice dictate it, and the dice might be slanted towards producing that outcome, but, uh. Over the last nearly 700,000 words, which exactly have made you think that Boney feels beholden to conventional narrative pacing if the dice and the player decisions say otherwise?
Boney isn't running a novel that we happen to be guiding. Reasoning on the meta level of "this is what the narrative beats ought to be" is going to steer you wrong, and has steered questers wrong in the past.
If we're not willing to do the job Roswita outlines (Change the cultural character of the place enough that Prestigious Vampires can't just take significant parts of it over) then I don't think it's a job we should accept. Both from an IC and OOC perspective. IC it would be better to start as you mean to go on, get someone in charge that is ready to go the distance and actually meet the posting requirements. OOC claiming we'd be able to modify the job after it wins a vote seems like it's basically just promising all things to all people to get them locked in until it's too late.
The Perfect Day
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
Today was the perfect day. You'd planned it weeks before, in idle moments snatched here and there throughout the expedition to the Chaos Wastes. A whole day of nothing but spending time with your lover, Panoramia. Every secund from dawn to now, in the evening twilight, just past dusk and a fine dinner courtesy of the halflings. All of it leading up to this moment, where the two of you are curled up on your dragonskull chair. This moment, where you'll pop the question that has been burning in your mind for the past week.
"Hey, Panoramia," you say, looking over to the Jade curled up beside you, currently engrossed in a book. "Have you ever thought about being a Lady Magister?"
Your lover takes some time to respond, carefully placing a bookmark in the tome she's reading, some compendium of local customs in the Empire you note, before shifting to look at you. "What brought this on?" she asks.
"Well, my promotion for one," you reply, "plus you mentioning that the soil here's almost done healing, meaning your Masterwork is nearly complete."
She hums in understanding, gaze growing distant. "I have, yes, when I was younger." A note of sadness forms on her previously wistful expression. "I'd mostly given up on it by the time I left. Would have ended up involving myself in the cult arguments more," she continues. Her hands stroke the cover of the book on her lap. She looks at you. "Now though... I've started thinking about it again. It would make things less awkward between the two of us."
Now it's your to feel a pang of sadness. "You know that's not important to me..." you say, taking one of her hands in yours. "Better that you do things like this because you want to." You smile at her, meeting her misty gaze with your own. "That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the gesture." She smiles back, before leaning in close.
Once you've managed to extricate yourselves from one another, Panoramia turns a curious look at you. "You never quite managed to answer my initial question," she says.
"I was a bit distracted," you say, definitely not defensively. "I was just thinking about what you'd like to do, once you finish your Magisterial exams," you continue, leaning your head on her shoulder. "I'm wondering just how close or far you'll be, once you make Magister."
You feel more than hear her humming in thought as she leans her head atop yours. Your first indication that things are not going as planned is when Panoramia suddenly jerks away from you, her face serious. "What is it?" you ask.
Panoramia's expression remains serious, but it doesn't take magesight as good as yours to tell she's in turmoil. Finally, she speaks. "No, Mathilde."
You pout. "I haven't even told you my idea yet." You'd planned so much, only to end up failing just before the finish line!? No, perhaps there was still a way to salvage this?
Panoramia preempts any attempts to speak though, placing a finger on your lips. You try to lick it off, only for her to bop your nose. "No Mathilde," she says, exasperation clear in her face. "I'm not going to revitalize Sylvania's soil."
You pout harder. It seems she had seen through you. "How did you know?" you ask, trying to buy time to formulate a response.
Panoramia's expression grows deadpan. "Mathilde," she says, in a voice you sometimes hear Heidi using on Mandred, "you just finished telling me about your accepting Roswita's offer."
You sigh. The jig is definitely up. "Are you sure you don't want to? Think of the accolades-!"
"Mathilde," she says, cutting your pitch off. "The soil is full of warpstone, soaked in dhar. Corpses have an easier time sprouting from the soil than seeds." She absently rubs her face with a hand. "There's nothing to fix."
"I had a plan!" you reply. "A brilliant one. You'd definitely have been able to fix it once I got done with it."
"Oh?" she says, raising an eyebrow. "Could you expound on your most brilliant plan then, Lady Magister?"
"If the problem is warpstone-"
"And dhar"
"Okay, and dhar. The best way to do fix the soil is to get rid of it all!"
A second eyebrow joins the first. "How?" she asks, a note of intrigue entering her voice.
You grin. "By blowing it up!" you proclaim. It's so simple! With the second secret, you'd solve so many problems at once!
Panoramia however doesn't seem as impressed as you'd thought she'd be, with her face now cradled in both hands, thumbs massaging her temples. "Mathilde," she says, voice sounding strangled somewhat, as well as muffled by her hands. "Turning all of Sylvania into a massive crater won't mean I can do there what I did here." She looks up from her hands, frustration evident on her look. You, however, can see past that to see the barely concealed mirth beneath. A slight fondness in her expression, a small quiver at the edges of her mouth, the effect of trying to hold back a smile. "For one," she continues, "the crater here actually has soil in it, which your theoretical Sylvanian crater won't."
"So it needs a bit of work," you reply. "Are you interested?"
She sighs, before looking at you, smiling widely. "You already know the answer to that."
You smile as well. "It's no, isn't it?"
She giggles sweetly, prompting you to wonder at the possibility of dying from a sound for a split second, before replying. "I'll have to think about it for a bit, until after my exams at least." She swats you arm lightly. "In the meantime, try to think of a better plan than trying to make a province-sized hole in the ground?"
"I'll try, but I make no promises," you say, leaning in close. "It'll even get rid of the skeletons..."
"I'm sure..." she whispers, leaning in as well.
It is, of course, at this moment, that Wolf decides that being left out once is enough, as he dives on top the two of you, tongue ready to dispense lickings to his favorite humans.
"Ack! Mathilde, get him off!" "Ugh, Wolf, stop! You're going to unbalance the chair!" No I won't!
This really is the perfect day.
It's good to be home.
Author's Notes:
That ended up longer than expected, good thing I decided to start this on my pc instead of attempting a phone post. This started from all the people expounding upon the shittiness of Sylvania's land, but it got away from me in the writing. Probably because I've been wanting to write a sweet moment with Pan and Math for a while now. I've had some ideas on stuff like that, but only a couple had the potential. One of those cameoed here, in the form of the book Panoramia was reading. Alas, the moment of Inspiration passed, so I was unable to write them. Maybe in the future though?
"Hey, Panoramia," you say, looking over to the Jade curled up beside you, currently engrossed in a book. "Have you ever thought about being a Lady Magister?"
Your lover takes some time to respond, carefully placing a bookmark in the tome she's reading, some compendium of local customs in the Empire you note, before shifting to look at you. "What brought this on?" she asks.
"Well, my promotion for one," you reply, "plus you mentioning that the soil here's almost done healing, meaning your Masterwork is nearly complete."
She hums in understanding, gaze growing distant. "I have, yes, when I was younger." A note of sadness forms on her previously wistful expression. "I'd mostly given up on it by the time I left. Would have ended up involving myself in the cult arguments more," she continues. Her hands stroke the cover of the book on her lap. She looks at you. "Now though... I've started thinking about it again. It would make things less awkward between the two of us."
Now it's your to feel a pang of sadness. "You know that's not important to me..." you say, taking one of her hands in yours. "Better that you do things like this because you want to." You smile at her, meeting her misty gaze with your own. "That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the gesture." She smiles back, before leaning in close.
Once you've managed to extricate yourselves from one another, Panoramia turns a curious look at you. "You never quite managed to answer my initial question," she says.
"I was a bit distracted," you say, definitely not defensively. "I was just thinking about what you'd like to do, once you finish your Magisterial exams," you continue, leaning your head on her shoulder. "I'm wondering just how close or far you'll be, once you make Magister."
You feel more than hear her humming in thought as she leans her head atop yours. Your first indication that things are not going as planned is when Panoramia suddenly jerks away from you, her face serious. "What is it?" you ask.
Panoramia's expression remains serious, but it doesn't take magesight as good as yours to tell she's in turmoil. Finally, she speaks. "No, Mathilde."
You pout. "I haven't even told you my idea yet." You'd planned so much, only to end up failing just before the finish line!? No, perhaps there was still a way to salvage this?
Panoramia preempts any attempts to speak though, placing a finger on your lips. You try to lick it off, only for her to bop your nose. "No Mathilde," she says, exasperation clear in her face. "I'm not going to revitalize Sylvania's soil."
You pout harder. It seems she had seen through you. "How did you know?" you ask, trying to buy time to formulate a response.
Panoramia's expression grows deadpan. "Mathilde," she says, in a voice you sometimes hear Heidi using on Mandred, "you just finished telling me about your accepting Roswita's offer."
You sigh. The jig is definitely up. "Are you sure you don't want to? Think of the accolades-!"
"Mathilde," she says, cutting your pitch off. "The soil is full of warpstone, soaked in dhar. Corpses have an easier time sprouting from the soil than seeds." She absently rubs her face with a hand. "There's nothing to fix."
"I had a plan!" you reply. "A brilliant one. You'd definitely have been able to fix it once I got done with it."
"Oh?" she says, raising an eyebrow. "Could you expound on your most brilliant plan then, Lady Magister?"
"If the problem is warpstone-"
"And dhar"
"Okay, and dhar. The best way to do fix the soil is to get rid of it all!"
A second eyebrow joins the first. "How?" she asks, a note of intrigue entering her voice.
You grin. "By blowing it up!" you proclaim. It's so simple! With the second secret, you'd solve so many problems at once!
Panoramia however doesn't seem as impressed as you'd thought she'd be, with her face now cradled in both hands, thumbs massaging her temples. "Mathilde," she says, voice sounding strangled somewhat, as well as muffled by her hands. "Turning all of Sylvania into a massive crater won't mean I can do there what I did here." She looks up from her hands, frustration evident on her look. You, however, can see past that to see the barely concealed mirth beneath. A slight fondness in her expression, a small quiver at the edges of her mouth, the effect of trying to hold back a smile. "For one," she continues, "the crater here actually has soil in it, which your theoretical Sylvanian crater won't."
"So it needs a bit of work," you reply. "Are you interested?"
She sighs, before looking at you, smiling widely. "You already know the answer to that."
You smile as well. "It's no, isn't it?"
She giggles sweetly, prompting you to wonder at the possibility of dying from a sound for a split second, before replying. "I'll have to think about it for a bit, until after my exams at least." She swats you arm lightly. "In the meantime, try to think of a better plan than trying to make a province-sized hole in the ground?"
"I'll try, but I make no promises," you say, leaning in close. "It'll even get rid of the skeletons..."
"I'm sure..." she whispers, leaning in as well.
It is, of course, at this moment, that Wolf decides that being left out once is enough, as he dives on top the two of you, tongue ready to dispense lickings to his favorite humans.
"Ack! Mathilde, get him off!" "Ugh, Wolf, stop! You're going to unbalance the chair!" No I won't!
This really is the perfect day.
It's good to be home.
Author's Notes:
That ended up longer than expected, good thing I decided to start this on my pc instead of attempting a phone post. This started from all the people expounding upon the shittiness of Sylvania's land, but it got away from me in the writing. Probably because I've been wanting to write a sweet moment with Pan and Math for a while now. I've had some ideas on stuff like that, but only a couple had the potential. One of those cameoed here, in the form of the book Panoramia was reading. Alas, the moment of Inspiration passed, so I was unable to write them. Maybe in the future though?
- Location
- Utrecht
Ho yez. It is a pentacle of luff now
- Location
- Czech Republic
I see that position as 25% bodyguard job and 75% helping elector counts with their problems. I could see the thread focusing on the problems of Electors to the detriment of things that I would like to see.