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Things I really like about the Markgraf of Stirland job:
  • Roswita (and, to a lesser but nontrivial extent, Anton)
  • Our third major mission in Sylvania, and thrice pays for all
  • Flipping the Coin to Protector and engaging in Dammerlichtreiter hijinks
  • Maybe we can hire Horstmann onto our "council"
  • Maybe Panoramia can come help purify the land after she's done in K8P
Things I don't like so much about it:
  • Pushing back the Elfternship for yonks, because it's hard to justify going to Nagarythe and fighting Druchii when your mission is to clear out Sylvania
  • A job that's kind of hard to walk away from because reaching a point of "done" seems unlikely
  • Research projects in our spare time? What spare time?
...which I guess, now that I reflect on it, is three ways of saying "I think it would be a pretty all-consuming job and it would be really hard to justify pursuing personal interests like our huge backlog of magical artifacts with our AP when we could instead be either doing the job or improving ourself so we can do the job better." Hopefully, if we end up going for it, it will in fact be possible to convert 1 of our personal AP into research half-actions; that would go a long way to balancing out the enormous pressure to throw ourself wholly into our work.
 
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That would be kinda hard, I believe.

The actual Elector Count of Stirland only got a Journeymanling for the job, not a Magister on the edge to Lord.
Political climate has changed. Styrland went from "vampires as ususal, not much can be done about it, don't waste good material" to "battlemage central". Sylvania these days is very important from th Colleges politic point of view.
 
Pushing back the Elfternship for yonks
It'd be for one or one and a half turns so I don't see it being pushed back for a decade honestly.

A job that's kind of hard to walk away from because reaching a point of "done" seems unlikely
The more successful we are the better delegation we can do. Especially since it'll be in the Empire's interests to help us pacify Sylvania and if we can demonstrate we could actually do it, I expect they'd help us out with some decent appointments.

Research projects in our spare time? What spare time?
Honestly that is true of literally any option except Bodyguard (two to three months in capital and then do what you want) and straight up Research Sabbatical. Even Waystones is researchy but focused only on stuff related to that. So we'd have a lot of adventures and related research but not the type of research I actually want to do.

Loremaster? Too busy unfucking Karaks
Markgraf? Same but for Sylvania
Waystones? Same but for Waystones
Border Princess? Same but for Borderlands with extra helping if "do it all over!" when a Waagh strolls in.
Kislev? Too busy unfucking Ranaldian relations
 
[x] The Waystone Project
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland

Screw it I'm literally incapable of deciding so I'm going to let my indecision do it for me.
 
Things I really like about the Markgraf of Stirland job:
  • Roswita (and, to a lesser but nontrivial extent, Anton)
  • Our third major mission in Sylvania, and thrice pays for all
  • Flipping the Coin to Protector and engaging in Dammerlichtreiter hijinks
  • Maybe we can hire Horstmann onto our "council"
  • Maybe Panoramia can come help purify the land after she's done in K8P
Things I don't like so much about it:
  • Pushing back the Elfternship for yonks, because it's hard to justify going to Nagarythe and fighting Druchii when your mission is to clear out Sylvania
  • A job that's kind of hard to walk away from because reaching a point of "done" seems unlikely
  • Research projects in our spare time? What spare time?
...which I guess, now that I reflect on it, is three ways of saying "I think it would be a pretty all-consuming job and it would be really hard to justify pursuing personal interests like our huge backlog of magical artifacts with our AP when we could instead be either doing the job or improving ourself so we can do the job better." Hopefully, if we end up going for it, it will in fact be possible to convert 1 of our personal AP into research half-actions; that would go a long way to balancing out the enormous pressure to throw ourself wholly into our work.
You pretty much hit on why I, and I believe many others, don't really want to do Markgraf. Simply put we can't do anything else. Basically any other option besides Swamp Town and Border Princess would let us have at least some free time to do other things or just take a break but with this it just seems like we would be going around investigating and trying to breaking down Vampire Cults, build up relations with the locals and other such for a good amount of turns.

me personally it just seems like something we could delegate to someone else while we go and do interesting stuff like Nuln Rat hunting or Protecting the Prince. Why I want the Bodyguard option to win actually because I feel we could help out with the Vampire and Rat problems but in a helping not leading way.
 
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It'd be for one or one and a half turns so I don't see it being pushed back for a decade honestly.


The more successful we are the better delegation we can do. Especially since it'll be in the Empire's interests to help us pacify Sylvania and if we can demonstrate we could actually do it, I expect they'd help us out with some decent appointments.


Honestly that is true of literally any option except Bodyguard (two to three months in capital and then do what you want) and straight up Research Sabbatical. Even Waystones is researchy but focused only on stuff related to that. So we'd have a lot of adventures and related research but not the type of research I actually want to do.

Loremaster? Too busy unfucking Karaks
Markgraf? Same but for Sylvania
Waystones? Same but for Waystones
Border Princess? Same but for Borderlands with extra helping if "do it all over!" when a Waagh strolls in.
Kislev? Too busy unfucking Ranaldian relations
I strongly disagree, having a job where you know a defined amount of effort is sufficient to meet your employers expectations, is fundamentally different from a leadership role in a nascent polity where there are near unlimited things that need doing. The pressure felt at every turn to do just one more nation-building, disaster-averting action and one less research action will be immense with Markgraf.
 
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I would like the Edgelord job much more if it was just spending few years hunting vampires without the management tacked on to it, even if we decide to completely delegate it will most likely cost us some AP similarly as how our current employees cost us ap.

I just dont really care about people of Sylvania enough to sacrifice the other cool parts of the quest.

And seeing as we could have involved ourselves in Sylvania even on our normal turns so far, we could probably help Roswitta from basically any other position.
 
I strongly disagree, having a job where you know a defined amount of effort is sufficient to meet your employers expectations, is fundamentally different from a leadership role in a nascent polity where there are near unlimited things that need doing. The pressure felt at every turn to do just one more nation-building, disaster-averting action and one less research action will be immense with Markgraf.
Roswita has the least expectations of anyone. All she wants are no vampires. We spend an action or two to squishing vampires like we did for Belegar stuff in K8P and do whatever else we want with the other 2. We don't need (or want) to turn Sylvania into some thriving mini-province. I just want it for the broad autonomy it gives us which is the second-most after bodyguard.

Sylvania is too depopulated to be anything but "not-thriving" no matter who is in charge.
 
we did that once. (and a bit of social.)
And there was always the option to get more involved.

Foreign Relations:
[ ] Involve yourself in the Sylvanian campaign (specify how)
[ ] Involve yourself in the Marienburg affair (specify how)
[ ] Involve yourself in the Black Waters project (specify how)

I believe that if our sources from Stirland told us : This year there will definitely be attack on the remaining vampires, then thread would vote to get involved in it.
 
Honestly that is true of literally any option except Bodyguard (two to three months in capital and then do what you want) and straight up Research Sabbatical. Even Waystones is researchy but focused only on stuff related to that. So we'd have a lot of adventures and related research but not the type of research I actually want to do.

Loremaster? Too busy unfucking Karaks
Markgraf? Same but for Sylvania
Waystones? Same but for Waystones
I disagree with everything you wrote, but mostly with this. If you're gonna reduce the tasks to flippant "unfucking X," why doesn't this apply to Bodyguard and "unfucking the Empire"? No, we should actually look at the different jobs on offer in more detail than that.

Bodyguard and LaL are most like our current job for Belegar, insofar as "there is a defined task that we get every now and then, and as long as that gets done the rest of our time is to do with as we please." I'm genuinely confused why you think we'd be too busy unfucking Karaks with Loremaster to have free time -- not only do we know that we can get a Research Institute if we stay in K8P and use a Great Deed to found one and convert our wizard actions into research actions, but we've been doing this job within K8P for years, and our standard (per the rundown in my signature) is to give the job 1-2 personal AP a turn, plus some or all of our minion AP, such that we are able to complete the task successfully, and then use the rest of our time for our personal projects. I see no reason to believe that this standard operating procedure would suddenly be hugely different when we're doing it for other Karaks.

With specific regard to Waystones, it's hard to say anything for certain, but I feel extremely confident that if we go for Waystones, the fact that it is a project with a long-term scope, not presenting imminent risk to lives, and has a lot of pieces that need to be in place before you can tackle the next piece means that there's an upper bound to how much productive time we can spend on the job. Also, given that it's a project to eventually do research, we're almost certain to found a Research Institute and get a bunch of half-actions for that, which lets us progress our personal research more efficiently in parallel with hobnobbing with elves or whatever.

With Sylvania, none of those factors hold. There's no defined task that changes year-to-year, just our remit to "pacify Sylvania," which is a huge task. We're the ones calling the shots; Roswita is giving us independence and discretion specifically so that she can focus on being the Elector-Countess of Stirland. The problem with that is that there's no way to accomplish a "good enough for our boss" the way there would be for Loremaster-at-Large and Bodyguard, and there's no way to just shrug and be like "oh well, I can work a little less hard this turn and no real harm will come of it" the way there would be for Waystones, because our job is to kill monsters before they kill people. We know what the thread is like when it's in "people's lives are counting on this" mode: we go full workaholic. We did it in Stirland, and we did it in K8P during the run-up to Dum: our time-on-task jumped dramatically once Belegar assigned us the Dum expedition and we dropped almost all of our side projects and interests. I have zero reason to believe this wouldn't also be true for Markgraf, and that's why I'm hoping we can find a substitute for the Research Institute, so that there's a good reason to not just feed all our time into the flame of "making the world a better place."

tl;dr most free time with Bodyguard and LaL, less with Waystones, least with Markgraf, given thread proclivities.
 
ngl, waystones has grown on me. Boney's insistence that the best way to pursue waystones is to pick waystones, and "best time was 4500 years ago, second best time is now" and the realization that "go on adventures to accrue political favor" is almost certain to be a valid tool for recruitment, I see it for what it is:

The most plot-heavy, wide-ranging troubleshooter option! Let's gooooo~

[x] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[x] The Waystone Project
[x] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
 
- For anyone interested in Becoming Matriarch of the Grey order one day. Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
and Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred would be amazing on the CV.
First human loremaster to a dwarf hold already gets us the same cv chops. First loremaster-at-large is an even bigger political position.

Waystones, despite being vague and pie-in-the-sky-ish, also has the same level of importance. Heck, depends on how it is initially structured, Waystones could be better than any of the choices just because of the unity needed to start off the thing.
- one of the things about Markgraf of Eastern Stirland that makes me want it is that... well, just how rare a job opportunity it is.
Refer to above regarding First human loremaster/at-large and also the massive multi racial project Waystones is.

And being a bodyguard may not be that rare, it is arguably more important (in human ruled areas) because any person who has the immediate ear of the future emperor already (potentially, obviously since the future emperor could still be defanged of authority or become/is a moron) equal Order Matriarchs/Patriarchs.

can we even retire as a Markgaf? Sylvania doesn't seem to have an obvious end point to reach

Waystones is, well something that has not happened since the dwarven Golden Age when the Waystones themselves were created. I thinkbthat qualifies as rare.
and yes, that can be said for some of the other jobs, but there will be opportunities of 'similar' level in the future.
Not only did we become an actual dwarven Thane (this cannot be revoked because tradition) due to our current loremaster job, as stated above, all the other top choices already give us the authority (though of varying aspects and requirements, like how Waystones have lots of *asterisks) equal to that of an elector. Obviously without the backing of a province or power to vote, but Markgaf has nothing for us on that front either.
 
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If you're gonna reduce the tasks to flippant "unfucking X," why doesn't this apply to Bodyguard and "unfucking the Empire"? No, we should actually look at the different jobs on offer in more detail than that.
I agree except all that argument has been had and honestly it's 4am so I don't really feel like it.

And while Bodyguard is "unfucking the Empire" we do have a few months we have to be in the capital every year which means we could do some guaranteed research actions then. But yes, everything except Sabbatical is bad for research. So in hindsight I'd like to amend it to - my appeal for Bodyguard is being able to meddle in Sylvania and Nuln at the same time as part of our duties. My appeal for Sylvania is one or two actions for squishing vamps, ignore the nation-building, and do research. And the potential for Protector shenanigans and messing with Roswita.
 
While i don't think Markgraf will be without is't pressures.

I think people are underselling the amount of responsibility Waystones has.

I remember my dissertation, if you're not showing results, or not showing them fast enough, or even looking like your not taking the project seriously, the grant and money go out the window and the investors and interested party start really getting in your face.

(well, ok, That was more the case for my Engineer friends, Low-cost social/political, I basically never paid for anything, research for the win!)

if its free time you want... it really is the Bodyguard job.

edit: Heidi literally used 'free time' as a selling point.
 
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it really is the Bodyguard job.
In hindsight it's actually the Sylvania job. I wasn't thinking clearly in terms of research actions. Bodyguard we'd be spending time traveling a lot, doing chores and capital stuff.

Sylvania you ride around squashing vampires, go back home and do research/whatever you want with the remaining actions. And that's without using a personal action.

Edit: Right, fair point on the free time selling point. Basically, free time is Bodyguard or Markgraf not Loremaster and certainly not Waystones which will have "just one more Waystone" research action or "just follow up on one more lead" eating into the Ulgu tongs and other interesting stuff we've been putting off.

Edit 2: I guess technically the absolute most free time is Sabbatical.
 
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I think people are underselling the amount of responsibility Waystones has.

I remember my dissertation, if you're not showing results, or not showing them fast enough, or even looking like your not taking the project seriously, the grant and money go out the window and the investors and interested party start really getting in your face.

We're not doing the dissertation, we're running the research group.

(Or institute, if we decide to spend the boon/deeds on that.)

Edit: I decided this needed some clarification, so: Mathilde will of course be doing personal research. But, as the person running the project, she's the one who will be setting goals and timelines.
 
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My appeal for Sylvania is one or two actions for squishing vamps, ignore the nation-building, and do research. And the potential for Protector shenanigans and messing with Roswita.
What do you mean, ignore the nation-building? As Markgraf, she's supposed to lay the infrastructure and power bases so that Sylvania will be able to repel the vamps without Mathilde's help after she leaves. Unless you plan for Mathilde to permanently settle there for the rest of her life.
 
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