Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Mathilde's reaction to the idea that Sigmar might have let Abelhelm die because hammer-boy wanted her specifically to do something else would be. Uh. Apocalyptic might actually be the right word given what Mathilde has access to.

She wouldn't like it, but she wouldn't start throwing a tantrum and destroying everything she's worked for either.

Abelhelm was a significant figure in her life, made moreso by circumstance, but Mathilde cares about many other things as well- some of them more.

I think it's also worth considering what would cause that to be 'confirmed', as pretty much the only person who could know would be Sigmar. If he's telling her that directly, it's probably for a reason.
 
So it turns out I was right about my reading, cost are just the monetary part of the cost. Here I was, so beset on all sides by dissenters that I almost began to doubt (not really because a very difficult enchantement needing archmages level enchanters being cheap is insane unless such enchanters work at a very low cost).

My other presupposition is that is that the "cost" of the component scales exponentially. Here is my reasoning. The range of price for some thing is a non-linerar mental construct. When you think of an expenditure it's not 10$ is trivial, 20$ is low expenditure, 30$ is a medium expenditure and 40$ is a high expenditure. If I have to use the term for myself, trivial would be a candy bar or a fruit, low would be a book or small product, medium would be something like a month's rent and high would be a car or a house. In my mind, to switch categories, the difference in cost should be at least 5-20 times more. Now scale that up for a ruler's budget.



Either way it means that my Mass Produced Waystone "price" estimations make sense. The cheapest models of waystone could probably be deployed tens of times faster than our current model at a MUCH MUCH cheaper cost per unit.

Perfect for low priority areas, in my mind, the most effective scenario for Mass-Produced Waystones would be to have local labour find, sculpt and erect the stone boulder base of the waystone, then send a team to build/install the other components, considering how simple and inexpensive a Mass-Produced Waytone could be (Cost (Negligible, negligible, low, low, trivial) - Difficulty (Simple, trivial, trivial, simple, simple)), I'd imagine the localy-prepared stone monolith could be turned into a Waystone in hours or days at worst.

Here is my previously developped scenario for X10 cheaper waystones (but I think Mass Produced Waystones could be even cheaper than X10 considering the difference in cost and difficulty) :
Boney said, and I quote, that "none of this is quantifiable." That is not proof that your quantification of the cost of components is correct. You have still provided no proof for your assertion about how the cost works. All of the waystone components can reasonably be deployed across the entire continet. It'll just be simpler for some than others.

You've glossed over the efficacy of the waystone itself. This is going to produce a waystone that's worse the waystones made during the Golden Age, possibly significantly worse if Hatalath's phrasing about compounding benefits with metal compared to a mason-carved stone rune was any indicator. You're going to need to put in more effort to get a similarly ideal environment compared to other proposals. It'll probably be a roughly proportionate amount of effort overall if the capstone created by Lords Mal and Turuquar is any indicator.

But as I brought up in the original post, why do we need to make a waystone with the copper wire stripped so much? I don't like the boat waystone, but it's interesting and novel. Why should we spend an AP to make a waystone that's so bland and unambitious? I get why people would want to cut out the storage, but cutting everything is baffling. The waystone network isn't on the verge of collapse. It has gone more than two millennia without proper maintenance. It's fine to need a dwarven rune in the waystones. It's fine that provinces will need to pay a low amount of money rather than a trivial amount.
 
The spirits are so isolationist they make the Asrai look like Finubar.

This does seem like the sort of thing that is worth testing rather than assuming, especially if we could get Cadaeth to serve as our interpreter with the more esoteric ones. No one gets to love alone in the world, after all, and we do know a whole heck of a lot about Cor-Dum that they may want to hear.

Waystone lore or deals for example are unlikely to benefit from talking to the forest spirits because they don't seem to use them.

This is also open to confirmation, since there seems to be a lot of things like waystones that are important parts of Athel Loren. They might be the ones who start is on such research paths as 'how do you imprison spirits and demons in an area using waystones?' or pocket realms and world roots. Heck, they might be desperate enough for more magic that they'd make concessions on visitation rights.
 
The trick is to not have arcane marks, and make sure your soul is clean of other winds.
Humans can do it, just takes lot of rest between switching winds, elves persumably have more training focused on keepin your soul clean of winds.
High magic is, i believe, a bit more difficult.
High Magic is about using all eight winds simultaneously together, in harmony. That's quite difficult, because it's not just using eight winds at the same time, it's knowing how to use them all combined into one greater spell. To do that, your soul needs to be clean of arcane marks, which rules out any individual human using High Magic (it's not theoretically impossible for a human to slowly master all eight winds without getting any arcane marks, but you'd probably need to have some version of eternal youth or agelessness to have the time to manage it). It might be possible for eight mono-wind human wizards to combine their efforts to produce High Magic, but no one has attempted it and I imagine it would be extremely difficult to disperse eight components of High Magic that still have to use it together simultaneously in perfect harmony without something going wrong.

Not impossible, but it does raise the question of "would that be the best use of the time of eight skilled mono-wind wizards?" And the answer is probably "no" while archmages in Laurelorn and Ulthuan are still around in significant numbers. Or, perhaps, it's more possible than we think and realizing that fact would require developing our Windherding experience more and then getting some teaching from an Eonir archmage to try it out.

The reason regular loremasters might be adept at eight winds but not use qhaysh is because it's probably a lot easier to individually become proficient or an expert at each wind individually than to learn how to use them all simultaneously in harmony. I don't know if Loremasters delve into Battle Magic, either universally or individually, either, and that could be a major distinction.
That would be a good reason to not teach them High Magic, but not to teach them these theoretical un-colouring your soul techniques. Or at least to write them down so they can adapt them.
"Uncoloring your soul" is not really useful to human mages, because human souls are highly malleable and thus extremely likely to transmute into a given Wind if channeling enough of it. Thus, any good human spellcaster worth their salt will develop arcane marks as they grow in power, and once you have an arcane mark of one wind you can no longer safely channel any others.

Rather, human spellcasters do the opposite of "uncoloring your soul" as a good practice because immersing themselves more deeply into their winds is partly how they advance as wizards. Part of being a Junior Apprentice is your soul adapting to and attuning to your specific Wind in the mono-wind environment of the Colleges.
 
Maybe the technique is "spend five decades training".
Maybe, but then either the training is based on skill, or it's not just that because Teclis could cast with all the Winds and High Magic by the time he was like, 150. And yes, he's kind of absurdly good at that sort of thing, but the fact it can be sped up still leads to the question of why he wouldn't write it down, when it's not like having it is problematic.

This is also open to confirmation, since there seems to be a lot of things like waystones that are important parts of Athel Loren. They might be the ones who start is on such research paths as 'how do you imprison spirits and demons in an area using waystones?' or pocket realms and world roots. Heck, they might be desperate enough for more magic that they'd make concessions on visitation rights.
I mean, sure. But even ignoring the fact that a lot of their abilities are almost certainly "be a forest spirit flight school", the Asrai do all of that? Like, they imprison spirits in specific parts of the forest, they use the world roots, and so on.

"Uncoloring your soul" is not really useful to human mages, because human souls are highly malleable and thus extremely likely to transmute into a given Wind if channeling enough of it. Thus, any good human spellcaster worth their salt will develop arcane marks as they grow in power, and once you have an arcane mark of one wind you can no longer safely channel any others.

Rather, human spellcasters do the opposite of "uncoloring your soul" as a good practice because immersing themselves more deeply into their winds is partly how they advance as wizards. Part of being a Junior Apprentice is your soul adapting to and attuning to your specific Wind in the mono-wind environment of the Colleges.
Yes, but presumably being able to get Winds that aren't your color out of your soul would still be useful. And presumably an Elven technique for removing such would work on any Wind.
 
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Found it! And yeah, it's similar to what I had thought. If anything, the subsequent Waystone Project and healing of Praag, Sylvania, the Black Water and many more places in the future only add more weight to the argument: what is the life of an Elector Count compared to the Old World being saved from the inevitable decay of the Waystone Network? What is one life, even that of Abelhelm van Hal, compared to all the ones that will be saved and live safer all across the continent? If Mathilde's actions here do more to prevent the End Times than she, or Abelhelm, ever could have done if Drakenhof had ended differently, why wouldn't Sigmar push for this outcome?
Oh I was wondering why that old omake suddenly had a surge of reactions. Cool to see someone else coming to a similar idea down the line.... good lord I wrote that nearly 4 years ago?
 
At that point you weren't being reeled in, they were just tugging on the line to see how deep you'd been hooked. They (and I) were planning to let you get comfortable and then slowly crank up what was going to be required of you, but then fate and dice intervened and Sigmar didn't.
Question: the part where Abelhelm was mortally wounded and Kasmir tried to get a healing spell but nothing happened (twice)--what could cause that, in-story, other than Sigmar deciding to let one of his devoted and important agents die an easily preventable death? Does Mathilde know if a dhar-corrupted environment can hamper divine spellcasting? Or Sunscryer's massive miscast--can events like that screw up spellcasting in the area for a time?

If you want to leave it completely ambiguous, that's a valid answer too, though it does raise the question voiced by Kasmir and pondered by Mathilde: why would Sigmar reliably answer Kasmir's prayers for healing throughout Sylvania when needed except when needed most (twice in a row)?
 
Boney said, and I quote, that "none of this is quantifiable." That is not proof that your quantification of the cost of components is correct. You have still provided no proof for your assertion about how the cost works. All of the waystone components can reasonably be deployed across the entire continet. It'll just be simpler for some than others.

You've glossed over the efficacy of the waystone itself. This is going to produce a waystone that's worse the waystones made during the Golden Age, possibly significantly worse if Hatalath's phrasing about compounding benefits with metal compared to a mason-carved stone rune was any indicator. You're going to need to put in more effort to get a similarly ideal environment compared to other proposals. It'll probably be a roughly proportionate amount of effort overall if the capstone created by Lords Mal and Turuquar is any indicator.

But as I brought up in the original post, why do we need to make a waystone with the copper wire stripped so much? I don't like the boat waystone, but it's interesting and novel. Why should we spend an AP to make a waystone that's so bland and unambitious? I get why people would want to cut out the storage, but cutting everything is baffling. The waystone network isn't on the verge of collapse. It has gone more than two millennia without proper maintenance. It's fine to need a dwarven rune in the waystones. It's fine that provinces will need to pay a low amount of money rather than a trivial amount.

It's not only a question of cost! It's also a question of production rate, at the very least, a cheaper/easier/faster waystone would have a huge value in terms of scalability.

I could be convinced to approval vote on the dwarven rune but I personaly think that what we need the most right now, is a waystone as deployable as possible. If we develop a cheaper waystone before going to the elfcation, the cheaper waystone could be used in conjonction with our current waystone model to speed up the cleansing of Praag, Black Waters and Sylvania. They already have the ressources in place to build our fancy Waystones, wouldn't be hard or costly to add a few light wizard journeymen, runesmith apprentices and mundane masons...

To be fair, I'd still be happy with a cheaper waystone version with a few compromises, but I do think there is something beautiful in creating the simplest, barest still functioning waystone. A hodgepodge of tiny things from many traditions, a big menhir, a runic dodad, a light magic cantrip, a beautiful craving, a few alloys/materials and a magic password.

Also, since a low cost waystone capable of mass deployment is one of the goals of the Asur in joining the Waystone Project, I'd guess producing it would help in negociating with Ulthuan to reactivate the Barak Varr Nexus. Once Barak Varr is reactivated having a cheap waystone for mass deployment in the Border Princes and potentially the Bad Lands could make the throne of power's energy troubles a thing of the past much faster.
 
"Most Dwarves would rather master a highly-respected craft than be forced by necessity to learn a less-respected one. And farming is one of those. Even those from Clans dedicated to farming prefer to grow for the Brewers and only make bread from imported grains - brewing is one of Valaya's spheres, after all, so that's seen as 'better'."

Her frown deepens. "They don't respect farmers? I've never gotten that impression from them."

"They don't respect Dwarven farmers. There's no Ancestor God of Farming, so if you are farming, you're doing something their Ancestor Gods didn't consider important. Humans have Rhya and the Halflings have Esmerelda-"

"No, she's for cooking and feeding. Agriculture is Josias."

"Right, so humans and Halflings are following the example put down by what the Dwarves see as our own Ancestor Gods. Just as the Elves were with Isha, back when the Dwarves were trading with them - which was right from the start, Grimnir and Caledor Dragontamer set the foundations for that alliance during the Coming of Chaos. Then after the War of the Beard, they start trading with humans instead - Nehekhara and early Tilea and Mourkhain and, eventually, the Empire. So subsistence farming became associated with their dark age, and they prefer to trade for food and farm for brewing feedstock. They see that as the ideal, and consider turning Dwarf-grown grain into food instead of beer wasteful."
I think there may also be something similar with clothing. The wiki and Tome of Salvation page 124 say Grungni is god of artisans, but I haven't been able to find information noting him as a god of artisans in general. Every other source I could find associates him with things related to minerals - stone, metal, gems - and never anything else.

What twigged me on this, and what made me think about their attitudes to clothing, comes from WFRP 3e: Book of Grudges page 47, which has this passage in a letter addressed from a dwarf to their cousin, who is stationed in an outpost in Blackfire Pass:
A Grudgekeeper made his way down to the mines just after you left for the pass, so I made sure to have him record your grudge against the merchant who sold you those shoes last winter. Bah! Such flimsy boots they were... I remember how they fell apart after only a few months of walking around in the pass. Shameful workmanship, that. With luck, this swindling, cheating merchant and all his kind from the manlings' Empire will think twice before pawning off shoddy goods upon Karak Azgaraz, make no mistake!
Now maybe the dwarf was just taking what he could get in Blackfire Pass, but could also be that the availability of human artisans allows dwarves to master trades more respected than tailoring and shoe-making, which aren't in fact associated with Grungni, but with no Ancestor God at all.

Though of course, it's not quite the same as buying grains since you have the problem presented in that quote of humans pawning off shoddy gear.
 
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Oh I was wondering why that old omake suddenly had a surge of reactions. Cool to see someone else coming to a similar idea down the line.... good lord I wrote that nearly 4 years ago?
Nice omake! It's always fun to see something you made pop back up years later.


Might I bother you to edit and replace Abelheim with Abelhelm? It's been a very common error in the thread.

For your convenience, here's a spoiler with the replacement of Abelheim-->Abelhelm—all you need to do is copy+paste.
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[B][U]Conversations you can never have[/U][/B]

There are some conversations even the greatest of friends dare not have, lest they no longer be friends. It has been almost two years since Kasmir last spoke to Mathilde Weber, but news of her still reaches him. He was extremely pleased to hear of her promotion to Lady Magister when the news reached him last year, but awed whispers of her dragging Karak Vlag back from the warp itself are both inspiring and disturbing.

It has been almost ten years since Count Abelhelm van Hal fell in his assault on Drakenhof. Ten years, and Kasmir can still vividly remember the prayers passing his lips, begging Sigmar's aid that his holy radiance might heal the stricken count. Can remember the terrible horror and guilt as Sigmar's light fails to shine. A pistol pointed at his face in grief and rage. Try again. And again. And again. Of Mathilde, hunched and broken beside Abelhelm's corpse.

Kasmir had wandered the wilds of Sylvania for three years after Ableheim's death. Cut off from all news of the lands beyond Sylvania's blighted borders, he searched for understanding. A crisis of faith, and yet even when he doubted, Sigmar's power had still answered when more often than not when he prayed. Eventually, he came to an understanding. There was an old belief, originally of Norsca, then Ulric, then Sigmar. It said that if a man was struck by lightning, then his God had urgent need of him. Ableheim had been called, because for all his good work in the world, Sigmar had greater need of him in the realms beyond.

Three years, before he'd seen the face of one of his friends again. A little older, Magister rather than journeywoman, and from her face when you spoke of the resolution to your crisis of faith, with any faith in Sigmar far more damaged than yours. Perhaps it was unsurprising. Between the notorious zealousness of too many witch hunters, Dieter IV's banning of the colleges at the behest of the then Grand Theogogion Wizards had notoriously poor relations with the Church of Sigmar. To his shame Kasmir's own actions and prejudices in earlier years had not helped heal this rift.

When Sigmar's light failed to help one of his most worthy servants, even Kasmir had doubted for a time.

But as the years passed and he began hearing news of the outside again, another suspicion began to build in him. As he heard before she had found him, she was seen approaching the Elector countess with a bodyguard of Dawi hammerers, being granted a gromril sword bearing the finest power of Dawi Runecraft for her part in beginning the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks.

In 2283 he first heard a dawi merchant (a rare sight still) call her [I]Azrildrekked. [/I]For she had completed the reconquest of Karak Eight Peaks.

And now Karak Vlag, lost some two hundred years ago was returned by her hand.

[I]Aid Dwarf folk. [/I]Second of Sigmar's strictures.

He still believed Ableheim was a most worthy servant of Sigmar. That he still served Sigmar in the great beyond. Yet, he wondered. Could this have been the future Sigmar saw a decade ago? Might Abelhelm have been called to help create [I]this future? [/I]He wonders, if Abelhelm had been able to see this future, what would he have said. If he could have seen the possibilities, what would he have said?

Kasmir will never speak this idea to Mathilde. Never voice the words that would destroy their friendship and might destroy the woman she had become. But he wondered nonetheless.

Either way, Kasmir was certain that whatever the truth, Abelhelm would be smiling at them from the afterlife.

======
AN: A character piece, because for a chosen of Sigmar, doesn't the question of "what if Abelhelm lived?" bring about more questions? Hopefully I didn't get Kasmir too far wrong.
 
Question: the part where Abelhelm was mortally wounded and Kasmir tried to get a healing spell but nothing happened (twice)--what could cause that, in-story, other than Sigmar deciding to let one of his devoted and important agents die an easily preventable death?

Tzeentch had a fun idea to screw with Slaanesh, Khorne, Gazul, Themself, and Hashut. TBD how well Ranald surfs the change sent His way.

The Horned Rat stuff was a genuine coincidence.
 
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Question: the part where Abelhelm was mortally wounded and Kasmir tried to get a healing spell but nothing happened (twice)--what could cause that, in-story, other than Sigmar deciding to let one of his devoted and important agents die an easily preventable death? Does Mathilde know if a dhar-corrupted environment can hamper divine spellcasting? Or Sunscryer's massive miscast--can events like that screw up spellcasting in the area for a time?

If you want to leave it completely ambiguous, that's a valid answer too, though it does raise the question voiced by Kasmir and pondered by Mathilde: why would Sigmar reliably answer Kasmir's prayers for healing throughout Sylvania when needed except when needed most (twice in a row)?
One possible explanation? Divine casting is still casting, and Kasmir simply failed twice in a row.
 
I don't think it's a matter of better methods, unless there's still something different about Elves that specifically allow them to work. For one, because there's little reason for Teclis not to write said methods down or teach them (remember, he had twenty years after the end of the Great War where he was working with the Colleges) and they'd be useful even if a human doesn't live long enough to use High Magic because "drain the Winds from your soul" seems like it'd be an excellent basis for miscast mitigation.

Also, Boney has said before that Elves learn spells as fast as humans, they invent them slower (and also need a grounding in "basic severrics" as a pre-req for any magic).

Finally, Elves seem to gain arcane marks either much less frequently or in a completely different way to humans, considering every Elf we've met has reacted with shock, horror or befuddlement at the idea. They certainly can't be a common result of miscasting as they are for human wizards. Mathilde is only forty, and has four marks. Between Hatalath and Sarvoi they've probably been practicing magic for something like a hundred and fifty times as long as she has and neither has any.
For what it's worth, 2e Realms of Sorcery does say that there's something different about elves:
Teclis' Human students revealed they lacked the finesse at manipulating anything more complicated than what could be achieved through a single Wind. The reason is because High Elves are better suited to sensing the ebb and flow of the Winds of Magic better than any other race, anticipating dangerous changes before they occur.

If elves have an innate ability to anticipate dangerous changes in the ebb and flow of magic, it stands to reason that they can mitigate a miscast much more effectively if they can feel it coming with some advance warning.
 
Dwarf Player's Guide, pages 111-112
The Black Gulf is itself dangerous. Raiders of all sorts have tried to assault Barak Varr from the sea, ranging from Sartosan pirates to the fleet of Skaven that terrorised the coasts along the Gulf and the Great Ocean in 2231 IC. Facing threats no army could touch, Barak Varr decided to build an 'army of the sea'.

Throwing themselves into the task, the Engineers and workshops of the hold studied captured ships and learned all they could from them. And then they improved them, building a range of ships from those meant for rivers to great steel craft that could travel on and under the Black Gulf. They adapted their weapons for use on the water and invented ones for battles beneath the waves.

[...]

Unlike the ships of Humans and Elves, which have open decks and are exposed to the elements, Barak Varr's metal ships are also completely sealed, from keel to crow's nest. Access to the crew areas and the storage holds are only through tightly sealed hatches that can be barred from the inside. Not only watertight, this design also keeps out boarders — since the first Ironclads were launched in the 18th century IC, no enemy has ever successfully boarded and captured a Dwarf ocean ship.
Barak Varr began developing ironclads in 2231 IC and completed the project in the 18th century IC - a very quick research task! Presumably Mathilde could work just as quickly if she devoted more of her AP to research.

EDIT: I incorrectly read the relevant parts.
 
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Barak Varr began developing ironclads in 2231 IC and completed the project in the 18th century IC - a very quick research task! Presumably Mathilde could work just as quickly if she devoted more of her AP to research.
I think you're misreading that.

The reference to 2231 IC is just about a particular string of Skaven naval raids in that period. The mention of Barak Varr building a fleet in response to threats in general is a different sentence.
 
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I think you're misreading that.

The reference to 2231 IC is just about a particular string of Skaven naval raids in that period. The mention of Barak Varr building a fleet in response to threats in general is a different sentence.
I think you may be correct, with the DPG's issue here being a layout issue. It had the 2231 IC incident and Barak Varr's decision together in the same paragraph, implying that one directly led to the other. If the last sentence had been separated out to its own paragraph, then it would've cleanly read as Barak Varr responding to the multiple challenges that were laid out over multiple paragraphs, rather than responding only to the contents of that last 2231 IC paragraph. All in all, not something that would've been worth talking about had I caught it.
 
Dwarf Player's Guide, pages 111-112

Barak Varr began developing ironclads in 2231 IC and completed the project in the 18th century IC - a very quick research task! Presumably Mathilde could work just as quickly if she devoted more of her AP to research.
That would contradict the account from Dreadfleet, which says that Barak Varr started building ships after the War of Vengeance, in an effort to show that anything elves could do dwarfs could do better.
 
Question: the part where Abelhelm was mortally wounded and Kasmir tried to get a healing spell but nothing happened (twice)--what could cause that, in-story, other than Sigmar deciding to let one of his devoted and important agents die an easily preventable death? Does Mathilde know if a dhar-corrupted environment can hamper divine spellcasting? Or Sunscryer's massive miscast--can events like that screw up spellcasting in the area for a time?

If you want to leave it completely ambiguous, that's a valid answer too, though it does raise the question voiced by Kasmir and pondered by Mathilde: why would Sigmar reliably answer Kasmir's prayers for healing throughout Sylvania when needed except when needed most (twice in a row)?
I would say that a high-Dhar environment can hamper divine spellcasting, but another possibility is also simply that everyone can fail to cast a spell, and maybe Kasmir was having a very bad day.

And maybe afterwards, he just decided to soldier on and make sure there would never again be a bad day for healing.
 
It's not only a question of cost! It's also a question of production rate, at the very least, a cheaper/easier/faster waystone would have a huge value in terms of scalability.

I could be convinced to approval vote on the dwarven rune but I personaly think that what we need the most right now, is a waystone as deployable as possible. If we develop a cheaper waystone before going to the elfcation, the cheaper waystone could be used in conjonction with our current waystone model to speed up the cleansing of Praag, Black Waters and Sylvania. They already have the ressources in place to build our fancy Waystones, wouldn't be hard or costly to add a few light wizard journeymen, runesmith apprentices and mundane masons...

To be fair, I'd still be happy with a cheaper waystone version with a few compromises, but I do think there is something beautiful in creating the simplest, barest still functioning waystone. A hodgepodge of tiny things from many traditions, a big menhir, a runic dodad, a light magic cantrip, a beautiful craving, a few alloys/materials and a magic password.

Also, since a low cost waystone capable of mass deployment is one of the goals of the Asur in joining the Waystone Project, I'd guess producing it would help in negociating with Ulthuan to reactivate the Barak Varr Nexus. Once Barak Varr is reactivated having a cheap waystone for mass deployment in the Border Princes and potentially the Bad Lands could make the throne of power's energy troubles a thing of the past much faster.
Yes, and I was not focusing on the cost specifically, but the picture overall. We have to balance cost, skilled labor, speed, and quality. Waystones do not all provide the same level of protection. A lesser quality waystone is going to be less capable of lowering the magic equilibrium than a higher-quality waystone. That means if you want to get the equilibrium to closer to the quantity humans prefer, you'll need to spend more resources on top of that: time, skilled labor, money, ect. We do not need to deploy waystones right now. The waystone network is stable. The people who come after us will have time to restore it.

Eltharion pushed for Ulthuan to join the Waystone Project because Yvresse needs waystones. But he is also Prince of one of the Outer Kingdoms and the Inner Kingdoms seem to hold a monopoly over the production of waystones. He pointed to Caledor specifically as being difficult to cajole into making them. Boney's mentioned that Ulthuan has already received the fruits of the Waystone Project and that it is safe to assume they will handle their own needs. That and Ulthuan not sending a representative to the Project heavily implies that they believe they can handle Ulthuan's waystone needs by themselves. If they wanted the Project to make them waystones, then they would have certainly sent someone to make sure the ylvathoi wouldn't mess it up. We can probably send Yvresse a design and perhaps even deploy it ourselves, but how they would take it is up in the air. Probably broadly positively, considering it would be Eltharion, but it would be rather presumptuous.

Ulthuan can more than easily put together a waystone from what we've sent them. Sending them the absolute bare minimum isn't really going to impress them. They can do that themselves. I'd also rather get Ulthuan's archmages to help refine the storage so we can get it refined faster back on the Old World. It definitely shouldn't have any Runesmith components. Ulthuan is also fabuously wealthy, so expense is something that matters less to them than most powers in the Old World.

Incidentally, I did find something that could be used to argue that the costs scale the way you proposed. But the problem is that it is an indirect argument, based on the assumption that the options are all roughly proportional to each other. First of all, the stone masons who make the rune have to have a grasp of basic magical theory, which isn't that hard to provide. But the rune is simple to create, and the effect it has similarly minimal.

"By itself, it just adds a little downwards turbulence to the ambient Winds," he says, pointing at the first, all-stone model. "It's a very minor effect for magical runes, but it's simple enough that it could be done by any competent stoneworker with a grasp of basic magical theory."

"Which would have been relatively common for Ulthuan of old," Sarvoi observes.
 
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I maintain my interest in making a cheaper land-based waystone - what I'm not interested in is making that waystone low-performance. The Fascis offers a route to making it in some respects superior during land deployment rather than merely as good, and Boney said we could design a new stone and deploy it in the same turn* so I'm hopeful that can design it and get some up and running in Laurelorn next turn right before we ship off to the elfcation.

Then, when we get back, Bretonnia will have finally seen some in action (Laurelorn is close enough, Kislev is not). That'll generate some interest which we can stoke by fucking up some iron orcs until hip hop materializes ex nilho.


*If we're fine with how the stone turns out. Compatibility rolls might go to shit and make us choose to deploy the old model anyways - same issue as if we made a new capstone and designed the stone same turn, capstone might suck and we choose to use an older one.
I'm about to write a scene with eight Magister Patriarchs and Matriarchs when the quest initially had about eight named characters total.
Talk about quality headpats, lol.
 
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Maybe, but then either the training is based on skill, or it's not just that because Teclis could cast with all the Winds and High Magic by the time he was like, 150. And yes, he's kind of absurdly good at that sort of thing, but the fact it can be sped up still leads to the question of why he wouldn't write it down, when it's not like having it is problematic.
Maybe he did not consider it important, maybe he intended to but was called back to Ulthuan before he got to it, maybe he did and the first gen Patriarchs decided that it was actually harmful for whatever reason...

Or maybe elves just are built different.
 
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On the Waystone thing I think we should at the very least consider a leyline only version for deployment inland because combining leyline and riverine transmissions compounds their cost and difficulty more than simply additively combining them should, and after the inland Waystone design we should at least strongly consider a boat based spirit riverine only Waystone though if the cost-benefit analysis says no I won't lose any sleep over it. Whether we should cut any additional corners on the inland Waystone over than removing riverine transmission and if some which corners and how much cutting is another question and one which I haven't made up my mind on and will probably wait until we vote to design the new Waystone and listens to arguments from multiple sides and evaluate them before coming to a decision of my own. If cutting corners results in a worse Waystone but is the cost is decreased even more than its effectiveness we could make up for that by simply deploying more Waystones in a denser pattern and still come out with a net cost savings. All depends on the details of course, I'd need to listen to arguments as to why cutting corners would result in such a scenario or not before making a decision of which side to support.

As for the human High Magic thing I think unless you're Fozzrik-level flight-school-meme.jpg absurdly good at magic it isn't plausible for a human being to become a High Mage without a way to extend their lifespan. If Teclis managed to get his hands on a Volans level talent while they were still young and he decided to spend the next several decades personally tutoring them to teach them High Magic then eventually after teaching them a sufficient mastery of all eight Winds and being lucky enough to not get a single Arcane Mark in the process Teclis might have been able to teach this student how to do High Magic… at the Petty and Lesser magic level which you can already do with non-High Magic and the student would have spent the majority of their lifespan doing this and would have a few decades at most of life left to live. Now if they did manage to live up to the upper end of that range Maybe Teclis could have taught them to do some actual low-level High Magic exclusive spells as well but they'll croak soon after learning them, meaning this excercise didn't produce useful results in the form of a competent human High Wizard. Now Wizards who dive deep into magic and magical mastery do tend to live longer… because they are no longer fully human due to Arcane Marks, the thing that precludes you from ever casting over Winds without Dhar and precludes you from being a High Mage. IIRC Boney has stated something along the lines of human High Magic being theoretically possible but the best idea the Colleges have to accomplish such a thing is to have eight different Wind Wizards casting in synchrony to try to combine their magic together into Qhaysh and that in everything other than the best case scenario, that none of the eight participants screw up in this procedure which none of them can practice for, the result should be eight simultaneous miscasts and a ton of Dhar all in the same room. It's not impossible it's just so hard that the Colleges may have tried it a few times, figured that it was impossible in practice, and abandoned the approach to focus on getting better at their own specialties instead.
 
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