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They have the tributaries, they're just not working on them because the Ice Witches and Hag Witches need to focus on rebuilding their infrastructure before they can start deploying them all across Kislev. If we have to do the action again for them to start, I think we should wait to do it until we've developed more tributaries Kislev can use.
@Boney What would taking the tributary (international) option for kislev amount to here? on the spectrum from 'fully redundant/not applicable' to 'will add a meaningful amount of resources to an existing effort' to 'needed to get meaningful tributary work done in the next few years'?
 
Here is my proposed plan for the turn:

[ ] Plan Shadow Wizard Money Gang's Nagarythe Vacation
-[ ] One Overwork action, one T45 action used
-[ ] COIN: The Protector
-[ ] Travel to Nagarythe at the invitation of Ambassador Daroir, and join their eternal war against Naggarothi invaders for three months. (Two Actions T44, One action T45)
-[ ] JOHANN: Involve yourself in the Eastern Stirland pacification masquerading as the Dämmerlichtreiter
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt to create an Auditory Seviroscope/Winds Chime (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Introduce Egrimm to Cython with hopes of some sort of information exchange
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[ ] With Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Sarvoi, and Hatalath
-[ ] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[ ] KAU: Seek publishing contacts in Lothern
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae part 2
-[ ] Eike Actions: Eastern Stirland pacification, Auditory Seviroscope, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn Bless Weapon, Accompany Mathilde to Lothern, search the markets of Lothern for unusual and exotic materials for enchanting, then return to the Empire while we are in Nagarythe

It is similar to @picklepikkl's plan in many ways, but has a couple key differences. The most notable is that it has us get some combat experience for Eike in Eastern Stirland instead of in Laurelorn, while trying experimenting with using The Protector to renew the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter, especially to see how that affects the captured Rider in Red in our new Knightbringer spell. It also uses for the Webmat bonus action to do fun things with Egrimm, borrowing one AP from next turn to do so. The other big difference is in the Eike study actions where I want Eike to accompany us to Lothern so she can use her talents while exploring the markets there. It is a fairly unique opportunity that I don't want to pass up. I don't want her to join us in Nagarythe or hang around while we are not in Lothern so I feel like she should be fairly safe.
 
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[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.

As someone who does audits of company finances, I cannot overstate the importance of this, of having it be the department with the most scrupulous people possible. Dwarves if we can swing it, a bad audit is a terrible thing.
 
@picklepikkl since Eike has 2/3 Equestrianism and she's gonna fight in a forest soon, how viable would it be to have Eonir teach her how to ride a deer? (I'm assuming they ride deer because of +5 Ungulates.) It's not self-directed, but she does enjoy horse-riding, and deer are basically the same as horses.
 
@Boney What would taking the tributary (international) option for kislev amount to here? on the spectrum from 'fully redundant/not applicable' to 'will add a meaningful amount of resources to an existing effort' to 'needed to get meaningful tributary work done in the next few years'?

It'll move the timetable up on it getting done from 'eventually' with a sigh and some muttered Gospodarinyi proverb, to whatever music they play over in the planquest threads when they roll a 100.
 
Here is a pair of takes on a non-elfcation plan.

[] Plan DEPLOY DEPLOY DEPLOY
-[] The Gambler
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[] With Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka (first)
— the Coin
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire (specify which: Sylvania)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Karaz Ankor (Black Water)
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[] With Cadaeth, Sarvoi, and Hatalath
-[] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storm)
--[] Write-in: Try to aid the local Faniour against gribblies and get Eike live combat experience
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek to get another library's contents, Karag Vlag Archives.
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Explore Ward of Storm, KAU action, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)



[] Plan SHADOW WIZARD RESEARCH GANG
-[]
1 AP overwork.
-[] The Gambler
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[] With Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka (first)
-[] Waystone: Other Networks
Specify which: Kislev, Laurelorn
-[] Waystone: Build a Waystone (coin)
There will be a subvote for which components it will be made of. You can take this multiple times to create multiple Waystone designs in parallel.
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[] With Cadaeth, Sarvoi, and Hatalath
-[] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storm)
--[] Write-in: Try to aid the local Faniour against gribblies and get Eike live combat experience
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek to get another library's contents, Karag Vlag Archives.
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Explore Ward of Storm, KAU action, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
 
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It is similar to @picklepikkl's plan in many ways, but has a couple key differences. The most notable is that it has us get some combat experience for Eike in Eastern Stirland instead of in Laurelorn, while trying experimenting with using The Protector to renew the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter, especially to see how that affects the captured Rider in Red in our new Knightbringer spell. It also uses for the Webmat bonus action to do fun things with Egrimm, borrowing one AP from next turn to do so. The other big difference is in the Eike study actions where I want Eike to accompany us to Lothern so she can use her talents while exploring the markets there. It is a fairly unique opportunity that I don't want to pass up. I don't want her to join us in Nagarythe or hang around while we are not in Lothern so I feel like she should be fairly safe.
Is "[ ] Involve yourself in current affairs: specify what and how." a valid JOHANN action?

Also I will reiterate my request to explicitly state in the plan how many actions you borrow from T45, same as declaring Overwork, so that voters can compare at a glance.
@picklepikkl since Eike has 2/3 Equestrianism and she's gonna fight in a forest soon, how viable would it be to have Eonir teach her how to ride a deer? (I'm assuming they ride deer because of +5 Ungulates.) It's not self-directed, but she does enjoy horse-riding, and deer are basically the same as horses.
I think that even if the Eonir ride deer, deer-riding is extremely different from horse-riding in important ways. Deer are proportioned differently and move very differently from horses.
[] Plan DEPLOY DEPLOY DEPLOY
-[] The Gambler
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[] With Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka (first)
— the Coin
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire (specify which: Sylvania)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Karaz Ankor (Black Water)
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[] With Cadaeth, Sarvoi, and Hatalath
-[] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storm)
--[] Write-in: Try to aid the local Faniour against gribblies and get Eike live combat experience
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Lothern)
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Explore Ward of Storm, KAU action, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)



[] Plan SHADOW WIZARD RESEARCH GANG
-[] The Gambler
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[] With Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka (first)
-[] Waystone: Other Networks
Specify which: Kislev, Laurelorn
-[] Waystone: Build a Waystone (coin)
There will be a subvote for which components it will be made of. You can take this multiple times to create multiple Waystone designs in parallel.
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[] With Cadaeth, Sarvoi, and Hatalath
-[] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storm)
--[] Write-in: Try to aid the local Faniour against gribblies and get Eike live combat experience
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Lothern)
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Explore Ward of Storm, KAU action, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
If you're using Overwork, you should explicitly say so in the plan. Also, for Waystone: Other Networks, if you're taking the action twice you should have separate entries for them because you need to say who from the Waystone project is assisting with them (a general issue with these plans is that you aren't specifying that). Getting Lothern publishing contacts is also not viable unless we're actually going to Lothern, so I would swap that action with setting up an exchange with Karak Vlag.

Also, I don't think it's worth having the write-in on exploring the Ward of Storm if you aren't also flipped to Protector. Double-dipping is why I have that action.
 
I can be convinced to not vote for the Elfcation this turn but not because we need MORE SKILLS. We'll always need MORE SKILLS. Polish off the partials that we have. Get Basic skills to Advanced skills. Get Advanced skills to Expert skills. Under that approach, we will never be truly ready. There is not the 'Human Wizard Murderer Gang' waiting for us in elfDetroit. We can kill most of what's there, run away with the rest of the Shadow Warriors from most everything else and get royally fucked by Boney rolling five 1s in a row, just like we would no matter how much we trained.

My reason to not want elfcation is frankly, I don't want to spend however long it will inevitably be (year plus?) IRL until the next full turn.
 
My main concern with a parallel rollout is that now our different stakeholders are fighting for limited Archmage-hours spent doing the Storage enchantment and everything gets really ugly really fast.
I don't really think that's an issue though. Or that specifically isn't an issue that won't happen regardless. We all know that Dwarfs don't like external infrastructure and elgi magic. They're not going to be particularly demanding about it. Van Hal and Hertwig aren't going to be as enthusiastic about waystones as Boris will be.

Deploying waystones won't be done in six months. It's going to take years. Unless you want to put years of between each deployment action, you might as well deploy them up front.

Also I think that Sylvania and Mordheim are best done after we investigate Mordheim. We might as well know if the region's nexus is recoverable first before deploying to there. Laurelorn is the better option. :V

I don't think giving tributaries to Laurelorn is particularly worth it. The Asur didn't give the land complete waystone saturation because they like magic. Eltharion took the tributary because it's a quick easy way to shore up damage. I don't think the tributaries are going to contribute much of anything to their opinion about not being first.

- Mathilde's part in Waystone deployment will be sorting out the politics and logistics of making it happen, and then handing it off to others to handle the years of rote work involved.
 
Is "[ ] Involve yourself in current affairs: specify what and how." a valid JOHANN action?

Also I will reiterate my request to explicitly state in the plan how many actions you borrow from T45, same as declaring Overwork, so that voters can compare at a glance.

I think that even if the Eonir ride deer, deer-riding is extremely different from horse-riding in important ways. Deer are proportioned differently and move very differently from horses.

If you're using Overwork, you should explicitly say so in the plan. Also, for Waystone: Other Networks, if you're taking the action twice you should have separate entries for them because you need to say who from the Waystone project is assisting with them (a general issue with these plans is that you aren't specifying that). Getting Lothern publishing contacts is also not viable unless we're actually going to Lothern, so I would swap that action with setting up an exchange with Karak Vlag.

Also, I don't think it's worth having the write-in on exploring the Ward of Storm if you aren't also flipped to Protector. Double-dipping is why I have that action.
It is a valid Johann action. Here is the Boney quote from when it was first propsed:
Can we fight things in Sylvania with Johann using the Protector to influence the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter? I.e. JOHANN: Involve yourself in the Eastern Stirland pacification masquerading as the Dämmerlichtreiter
Yes, but you run the risk of your myth being overshadowed by that of Ghostpuncher.

I added the T45 action amount to the top of the plan as well, I had it on the Nagarythe action.
 
I don't think giving tributaries to Laurelorn is particularly worth it. The Asur didn't give the land complete waystone saturation because they like magic. Eltharion took the tributary because it's a quick easy way to shore up damage. I don't think the tributaries are going to contribute much of anything to their opinion about not being first.
Given that one of the reasons why they are in conflict with Nordland is that humans keep killing their tributaries because they like precious metals, I respectfully disagree. I think the Eonir would find a lot of value in a tributary they can put up on borders with humans so the peasants don't get any funny ideas while they keep the lornalim for more internal usage.
 
I don't care if we go on an Elf-murdering spree or not, but I swear to Ranald, if that Grey Spellbook keeps poking my OCD for three more turns, I'm going to shiv someone. Possibly myself.

It's just an abstraction anyways? We've already got Mookery of Death, Shadow chisel, MMAP, Mathilde's matrix, Knightbringer, and Rite of Way that aren't even in the spell book, and you know every other LM has a few spells that aren't in it either.
 
Given that one of the reasons why they are in conflict with Nordland is that humans keep killing their tributaries because they like precious metals, I respectfully disagree. I think the Eonir would find a lot of value in a tributary they can put up on borders with humans so the peasants don't get any funny ideas while they keep the lornalim for more internal usage.
They aren't in conflict with Nordland though. Nordland has lost and lost decisively. There's even rumblings of them working reason for them to work with Nordland to defang Teutogen control over the Cult of Ulric. Additionally, Imperial law now understands that the Lornalim are part of the Waystone Network and thus magic. We all know what Imperial Law thinks about Imperial citizens messing with magic outside of the terms of the Articles.

They're not going to be happy about getting crumbs when they're expecting a slice of cake.
 
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We should probably take the action to inspect kislev's network if we want to put our waystone there right? I mean sure, we can just dump it in the river, but it'd be nice if we could do it properly.
 
I've stolen @Prime 2.0's idea and edited citations for Boney comments as links into my plan draft:
Don't forget, formatting (including links) is controlled by the earliest appearance of a plan in the voting period, regardless of whether or not it is that poster's most recent vote.

Anyways, I'd strongly recommend linking boney's post about figuring out the network situation enough to deploy being part and parcel of kislev deployment in the deployment action. People keep asking about it, so it's probably going to continue being a point of confusion unless you do, lol.
I disagree that this is necessary at all; it doesn't enhance the EIC's ability to either do spy shit or do diplomacy shit, which are the two main purposes we wield it for. It feels like something Wilhelmina would do if she thinks there's a problem. We already have an Internal Affairs division for catching people doing actually bad stuff; if someone is skimming off the top I don't think I really care unless they're using it to weaken the Empire or empower its foes.
We can't check if they're using it to weaken the empire or empower its foes unless we know who is skimming off the top. If we already knew that, we wouldn't have the option of making an auditor's division.

Investigative accounting doesn't go out the door just because you have crime scene investigators already, you know?
 
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@picklepikkl I do want to reinforce the part of my Eike study action that I really like is that I am explicitly trying to take advantage of her Enchantment Materials trait:
Enchantment (1/2)
Materials: Eike is able to quickly and precisely evaluate how conductive a material is to various forms of magical energy, and how to compensate for or take advantage of that conductivity. +1 Learning, Advanced will give +1 Magic

I think this is a good reason for us to bring Eike along other than we just want to give her the opportunity to explore the city and can give Boney a more interesting starting point to write a scene about what she gets up to. That's why I have my Eike action as:
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn Bless Weapon, Accompany Mathilde to Lothern, search the markets of Lothern for unusual and exotic materials for enchanting, then return to the Empire while we are in Nagarythe
instead of your:
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
You do mention that you want her to go to Lothern for the KAU action and then go home. I am leaving her off the KAU action because I think there is more for her to gain from the Windherding action and I think the searching for interesting Enchantment Materials leans into her capabilities more.
 
I would rather let people talk about elfaction for a few months rather than have all those people complaining until the end of time that we didn't have enough money to buy all the unique Shinies we could have picked in Ulthuan...
That's what moneylenders are for. We possess a hefty share in a growing merchant company that's only going to grow in wealth once the Zhanyka Canal is finished. I definitely think we can borrow quite a hefty sum from a Dwarf moneylender, or even an Asur one.
 
They aren't in conflict with Nordland though. Nordland has lost and lost decisively. There's even rumblings of them working with Nordland to defang Teutogen control over the Cult of Ulric. Additionally now Imperial law understands that the Lornalim are part of the Waystone Network and thus magic. We all know what Imperial Law thinks about Imperial citizens messing with magic outside of the terms of the Articles.
I think that Laurelorn probably cares about the long-term stability of a human alliance and are way, way too familiar with the notion that our good intentions erode over time. Trust but verify, you know? Don't dangle temptation in front of the Middenland or Nordland peasants, because in a few generations the political will to punish them for treaty breaches might just not be there. This is especially important given the increased interaction with humans they'll have as a result of the fog bridge. Waystones would be more valuable for them, sure, but the current Waystone design just isn't optimized for their needs.
We should probably take the action to inspect kislev's network if we want to put our waystone there right? I mean sure, we can just dump it in the river, but it'd be nice if we could do it properly.
See this:
@Boney : Are Mathilde, Baba, Zlata, or anyone else in the project confident that we can just connect this new waystone into Kislev's network? The update implies that it's not an issue.
Figuring that out would be part of the action. If it was outright impossible, someone would have brought it up by now.
The action would include investigating.
We can't check if they're using it to weaken the empire or empower its foes unless we know who is skimming off the top. If we knew that, we wouldn't have the option of making an auditor's division.

Investigative accounting doesn't go out the door just because you have crime scene investigators already, you know?
That's fair, but also we're not really focusing on internal subversion of the Empire in our main turns and so actions that increase our ability to contest that are just less interesting to me than actions that solidify our diplomatic outreach.
You do mention that you want her to go to Lothern for the KAU action and then go home. I am leaving her off the KAU action because I think there is more for her to gain from the Windherding action and I think the searching for interesting Enchantment Materials leans into her capabilities more.
I just don't think that spending an Eike Study action on "finding shinies" is very interesting. I have every confidence in our ability to find appealing shinies without doing that. I'd rather the Study actions be stuff she can do during the three months we're gone, such as taking Enchanting classes and studying Khazalid per @Andres's idea. The issue with your proposed Eike Study action, even though I agree it has more writing hooks than mine, is that all of it requires Mathilde's attention or at least presence and Eike is stuck twiddling her thumbs when we're gone.
 
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