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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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So my two cents - there's some fairly significant priorities for the next turn that logically supersede going on elfcation:

- AV and Orb flex is priority 1
- Seviroscope
- Apparition

Of course there's also the Web Mat Waystone actions.

Considering all that keeping the Elfcation for turn 45 seems quite good - perhaps we could use 1 AP for Elfcation on turn 44 but more than that doesn't seem to fit.
 
I'm going to be boring and say it is still too earely in the turn to be making plans beyond it. I mean we are not even past the Liminal Realm action, we do not know what success or failure in what will bring in terms of new actions, but I doubt it will be nothing in either case.
 
If we're talking about doing additional Protector actions, there may be somewhere better to put it than a province where we already have very good rep in both guises.

There was brief discussion a few dozen pages back about at some point trying to learn Hedgecraft from the Ranaldite Hedgewise of Middenland. This is, of course, a very uncertain action as all we have to help us with first impressions are the words of Krammovitch and Aksel (neither of whom are from the Middenland sects) and our admittedly high Ranaldite Piety. And it's explicitly a "Try it and find out" on if we could learn it even if they were willing to teach it to non-Hedgefolk (though Krammovitch is reasonably strong evidence that it's compatible with Teclisian Ulgu casting).

If this is going to be something we look into, I think it might be worth taking a preparatory action beforehand. Specifically, spending an AP [ ] Ingratiating ourselves with them by killing local gribblies while we have the Protector proccing for us for free. Also, potentially an action to bring Eike on that'll have her see actual combat under supervision.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
1: Druchii Negotiations
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Have to say everything I see people seriously suggest this idea I'm kind of confused.

Either it's genuinely engaging in fair deals with one of the most evil factions in the world, who will be trying to get power over us all the while, and potentially harming relations with Ulthuan, or it's thinking we can get one over on people who have been raised from birth on deception and backstabbing, and are much more experienced in both than Mathilde.

Maybe just maybe they might underestimate us, but I don't see anything that could really be worth the risks involved.

It just seems incredibly arrogant to think it would work to me.
 
Druchii negotiations seem like the kind of thing to put the Deceiver on for rather than a vain hope at the Father. If we do that at all.
 
Glau said:
Reading through the discussion, and it occurs to me: do you need a population of humans to exist in an area to give rise to a population of beastmen, or is there a source of 'pure' beastmen that can arise with no concept of civilization at all?

Thinking about the southern continents, which are apparently full of beastmen but have no humans in them, and trying to square that with beastmen being mutated humans and domesticated animals. Maybe there were humans there and they got wiped out?

Otherwise we might have a genuine beastmen civilization arising in the places where they have no enemies to compare themselves to.
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According to the Archaon novels, down south they get 'Beastfiends' instead, which are a blend of animal and Daemon without any human in the mix. They have a society very similar to Beastmen, except limited to tools and weapons made of things like stone and ice. The fact that these animals would surely be things like penguins and seals isn't really addressed.

BurnNote said:
Yeah, I think that's where you're going wrong Glau. In the empire, that's the case because there's just more of those, and they've probably developed their own delightful brands of racism.
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Beastmen society in the Old World is outright caste-based. If you've got large, symmetrical horns that are recognizably from a goat or a ram or a bull and useful in a fight, you're a Gor and immediately on the top of the hierarchy. If you've got horns that are impressive but are from a wild or unrecognized animal, you're a Half-horn Ungor. If you've only got little horns, you're an Ungor. If you've got no horns at all you're a Bray, and unless you've also got magic, you're barely a part of Beastman society at all.

That a Beastman with the horns of a domestic sheep is considered superior to one with the horns of a wild deer is another one of those little contradictions in Beastman society that undermines their 'true sons of Chaos' societal narrative. It also turns into something like garden variety racism if you consider that it's based entirely on Old World species, and that Beastmen with horns from eastern cattle or domesticated antelopes who 'should' qualify as Gors wouldn't be recognized as such in the Beastherds of the Old World.

Boil it right down and you reach the conclusion that Beastmen are defined not by being wild, but by being feral.

StormySky said:
I still think that the Coin staying the same for the entire Elfcation even when it's split across multiple turns means that the Elfcation itself runs on whatever we set the Coin to on the first turn, but anything else we do on the second turn besides the Elfcation would be affected by the second turn's different Coin setting.

So something like:

Turn 1, Coin: Protector
Other stuff (Protector)
Elfcation pt 1 (Protector)

Turn 2, Coin: Father
Elfcation pt 2 (Protector)
Other stuff (Father)

as an example. @Boney is my intereptation correct, or does Turn 2 get forcibly set to Protector (or whatever it was that we had for Turn 1) here?
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That interpretation is correct.

Andres said:
Do the ithilmar objects we plan to sell to the Eonir have any cultural or historical value?
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A lot of them would.

fictionfan said:
@Boney : Does our sword style happen to have an undocumented feature of working very well in crapped spaces where you normally would not be able to really use a greatsword?
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Empire techniques are built to be able to work in formation, and Gazulite ones in cramped spaces, so it's not really something unique to Mathilde's style.
 
NavySeel said:
Have to say everything I see people seriously suggest this idea I'm kind of confused.
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I hate that bit too, but I don't have the spoons to argue against something when the previous arguments exhusted me to read, so I'll just skim discussion on the topic and make/vote for plans that don't have that in it.

[Edit: My intent with posting this was to let other people who also don't like the negotiation idea, but who are also not feeling up for trying to get into that topic again that there's at least one person who'd be voting for plans not having that action, and to not feel... disheartened by thinking that there is any sort of certainty that such a path would be pursued.]
 
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Boney a couple questions about if we are allowed to take actions as WEBMAT actions:
  1. Can we fight things in Sylvania with Johann using the Protector to influence the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter? I.e. JOHANN: Involve yourself in the Eastern Stirland pacification masquerading as the Dämmerlichtreiter
  2. Can we involve Egrimm in the Leyline Keyphrase Negotiation with Ulthuan? I.e. EGRIMM: Leyline Keyphrase Negotiation (Ulthuan)
Also would any Leyline Keyphrase Negotiation with Ulthuan take place in Ulthuan or the Empire, and so would there be an impact to taking the action in the same turn as a trip to Nagarythe?
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
Can we fight things in Sylvania with Johann using the Protector to influence the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter? I.e. JOHANN: Involve yourself in the Eastern Stirland pacification masquerading as the Dämmerlichtreiter
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Yes, but you run the risk of your myth being overshadowed by that of Ghostpuncher.

LawsOfRobotics said:
Can we involve Egrimm in the Leyline Keyphrase Negotiation with Ulthuan? I.e. EGRIMM: Leyline Keyphrase Negotiation (Ulthuan)
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What part would Egrimm be playing in this?

LawsOfRobotics said:
Also would any Leyline Keyphrase Negotiation with Ulthuan take place in Ulthuan or the Empire, and so would there be an impact to taking the action in the same turn as a trip to Nagarythe?
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It would normally take place in Altdorf or Marienburg, but if you do it immediately before or after Elfcation you could try to go do it in Lothern.
 
Boney said:
What part would Egrimm be playing in this?
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As a Lord Magister I was hoping he could participate in the negotiations. For specific things he could do, he could help Mathilde game out a strategy for how to approach the negotiations so we don't get played like we did by House Tindomiel, and he could try to get to know who we are negotiating with to help convince them that we don't have any ill intentions with using the Keyphrases. As a Light Wizard he would probably already seem more trustworthy and he could use something like The Power of Truth to be persuasive.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
As a Lord Magister I was hoping he could participate in the negotiations. For specific things he could do, he could help Mathilde game out a strategy for how to approach the negotiations so we don't get played like we did by House Tindomiel, and he could try to get to know who we are negotiating with to help convince them that we don't have any ill intentions with using the Keyphrases. As a Light Wizard he would probably already seem more trustworthy and he could use something like The Power of Truth to be persuasive.
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That might apply for any negotiations with a power in the Empire, but he doesn't know anything about Ulthuan and they're unlikely to be wowed by Light Wizards or their spells.
 
Boney said:
Boil it right down and you reach the conclusion that Beastmen are defined not by being wild, but by being feral.
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Which actually sums up everything there is to know about Beastmen and 'nature' quite well. In a sense, Beastmen aren't about "nature, red in tooth and claw." They're not really 'wild' or 'natural.'

If they're personifying anything, it's the projected human fear of humanity's "dominion" over nature going wrong and boomeranging back around to strike at us, caring about us far more and far too much than anything that didn't originate with us ever could.
 
Boney said:
Yes, but you run the risk of your myth being overshadowed by that of Ghostpuncher.
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A spell to summon Ghostpunchers sidekick seems pretty neat:V


A while ago I made a post about how the Cult of Taal would nicely complement the project's current research-focused loadout. I won't spend the time crafting plans of my own, but please just give that a thought. They have far-flung international connections, boots-on-the-ground that probably wander into Mordheim just to check whether it still conceptually counts as a city and the trust of the countryside we will eventually place our weird magic stuff into.
 
One thing I do wonder is how insane the Aparition spell will look from an elf perspective, since we have already seen an elf be surprised by how we are basically ramming Ulgu spikes into our soul before.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
Not sure if it is impressive. Decent enough but it probably be like 17 in human terms - very solid but nowhere near the top.
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I mean, the Khornate Champion Mathilde fought had Martial 30 and Alkharad, an ancient and powerful vampire necromancer, had Martial 28 and Learning 34. A 27 is definitely playing in the same leagues as even people who are supernaturally good at a thing and/or have spent a very long time on the subject.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Which actually sums up everything there is to know about Beastmen and 'nature' quite well. In a sense, Beastmen aren't about "nature, red in tooth and claw." They're not really 'wild' or 'natural.'

If they're personifying anything, it's the projected human fear of humanity's "dominion" over nature going wrong and boomeranging back around to strike at us, caring about us far more and far too much than anything that didn't originate with us ever could.
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Hunh, and that would fit with Gor-Dum being an ex-God of Law too. A god of herd animals, domestication and above all else the taming of nature. Fits with Civilization of Kavzar (Man as the animal that is tamed) Khsar The Desert wind (the oft unintended consequences of drought and desertification) And Morghur as the unintended animal side effects of domestication.

Which, put that way, seems almost like a pun. Morr-Ghur. The spirit of the death and prophesied corruption of the wild.
 
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Sinsystems said:
One thing I do wonder is how insane the Aparition spell will look from an elf perspective, since we have already seen an elf be surprised by how we are basically ramming Ulgu spikes into our soul before.
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Gehenna indicated they do it themselves.

Maybe they leash the thing on a magic item rather than going straight for their soul?
 
Mopman43 said:
Gehenna indicated they do it themselves.

Maybe they leash the thing on a magic item rather than going straight for their soul?
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While I am not fond of Arabyan magic being reliant on Elven artifice, because it pains me to entertain the concept of an Arab alternative being defined by their colonisers, I will admit that it's likely that is the case because that is how Arabyan Djinn binding is typically portrayed, and Arabyans are known to have kicked out their colonisers and took Elven magic principles from them. Usually because almost every depiction of Arab magic is based off that one Alf Layla wa Layla story (Thousand and One Nights). You know the one. It's the genie story.
 
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