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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
A list of some of the ideas I've seen for the Blood Price:
  • Library Partnership/Book Copying
  • Wealth
  • Land/Title
  • The Fire Spire
  • EIC Repeater Factory
  • EIC presence in Kislev
  • Military assistance against Marienburg or the Forest of Shadows
  • Political assistance against Marienburg or Nordland
  • Canal linking Erengrad to the main river network
  • Economic support for Vlag
  • Formal economic and political agreements with the Empire
  • Support for magic users migrating to the Empire
  • Ceding disputed territory to Ostermark
  • Endorsement of the Cult of Ranald
  • Access to Waystone Nexuses
  • Nothing at all
  • A personal war-mammoth
Have I missed anything?
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I think I suggested prioritizing building increased trade ties with the empire.

Which I mostly though of because it doesn't hurt either party and ties them closer together.


But something we should consider is something like.
"Kislev funds and Staffs additional efforts to gather intelligence on northern threats, and passes that information to the grey order".
 
pucflek said:
More to the point, the vast majority of them would be extremely uncomfortable being outside of their mountain, or so far from it.
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Considering how long they were stuck in their mountain and how much they want to reconnect with the rest of the Dawi, a canal that would let them do it with out dealing with the Skaven and Greenskin filled Underways would be appreciated I think. More trade also helps their other human neighbor as well. A Cannal could benefit them a lot a us as well, that it screws of the traitors in Marienburg is just a plus in my eyes really.
 
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While I'm staying firm to wanting Ulthuan's cooperation, honestly, the thread sentiment against Marienburg is such that when the vote opens I'm going to be voting both for [Blood] Books and [Blood] Support against Marienburg - I'm fine with either winning. So I guess something like this:

[ ] [BLOOD] Personal (Kislevite Heritage Preservation Act: a partnership between KAU and the whole of Kislev. To the extent that it does not interfere with Kislev's anti-Chaos preparations, Kislev will also send copies of its books to KAU. Common-sense restrictions apply.)
[ ] [BLOOD] Empire (Political and/or military assistance to help bring Marienburg to heel)

[ ] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
 
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Stewart9 said:
Considering how long they were stuck in their mountain and how much they want to reconnect with the rest of the Dawi, a canal that would let them do it with out dealing with the Skaven and Greenskin filled Underways would be appreciated I think. More trade also helps their other human neighbor as well. A Cannal could benefit them a lot a us as well, that it screws of the traitors in Marienburg is just a plus in my eyes really.
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A canal benefits everybody! Except Marienburg cause fuck marienburg.
Parabola said:
While I'm staying firm to wanting Ulthuan's cooperation, honestly, the thread sentiment against Marienburg is such that when the vote opens I'm going to be voting both for [Blood] Books and [Blood] Support against Marienburg - I'm fine with either winning. So I guess something like this:
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Can I convince you to vote for a canal that would connect EMpire to Erengard insteat? OR approval vote at least? It would do pretty decend job at fuck Marienburg cause but would many other profitable for everybody merits to it?
 
Parabola said:
While I'm staying firm to wanting Ulthuan's cooperation, honestly, the thread sentiment against Marienburg is such that when the vote opens I'm going to be voting both for [Blood] Books and [Blood] Support against Marienburg - I'm fine with either winning. So I guess something like this:
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Listen, my main thing is how crippling not having a safe port to the Sea of Claws is. If we wanted to use the Kislev and maybe Vlag boon together to make a passage that gets out around Erengrad, my vote would absolutely then go towards Cooperation.

This all being said - I don't know how likely getting people to give up all this book shit is, and unlike the southern canal, this passage would absolutely provoke Marienburg into coming after us with both barrels.

Come to think of it: @Boney , would using the Kislev boon for docking rights in Erengrad be viable? That is, the right to base the Imperial Fleet and our merchant fleets out of there? I'm well aware that Erengrad doesn't have the basing facilities that Marienburg has, but that's something that I'm positive we'd find a lot of seed funding for anyway.
 
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so just to check @Boney, KAU establishing library partnership with Kislev would let both parties copy their future acquisitions from a wider net? I.e. If KAU copies from an Estalian library, Kislev who's usually unrelated can get that too.

Also how big of an impact and undertaking is a canal connecting the Urskoy-Lynsk rivers? It links Erengrad to the Empire's rivers network which sounds like a big deal for the short distance the canal needs from the proposed map.
 
Tasoli said:
What? No have you looked at the map? There is a river that goes through the Shiroki Forest that reaches to Kislev City and from there to north. Erengard also have a river that goes near the same place.
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That'd mean the whole project would be in Kislev, north of Kislev city even which simultaneously makes it vulnerable to Chaos attacks and also makes it an extremely long detour for merchants based in Nuln and Altdorf; to the point where using the dwarf canals makes a lot more sense because the distance isn't actually any shorter for an Altdorfer/Nulner merchant.

There's also the problems of those rivers freezing for long periods of time during winter; as well as being too shallow to accommodate the imperial navy.


Basically I'm not sure if this Boon is 'Boon-y' enough: the overall benefits for the Empire may very well just... not be all that great.

Indeed cutting a canal through the Wasteland may make more financial sense in the long run and would have the added benefit of being a lot safer and more accessible from Altdorf.
 
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Stewart9 said:
Considering how long they were stuck in their mountain and how much they want to reconnect with the rest of the Dawi, a canal that would let them do it with out dealing with the Skaven and Greenskin filled Underways would be appreciated I think. More trade also helps their other human neighbor as well. A Cannal could benefit them a lot a us as well, that it screws of the traitors in Marienburg is just a plus in my eyes really.
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I am just repeating what Mathilde told Snorri, and i do believe Mathilde has good enough insight into minds that she could accurately judge their willingness to be going on about outside of their fortress.
 
Tasoli said:
Can I convince you to vote for a canal that would connect EMpire to Erengard insteat? OR approval vote at least? It would do pretty decend job at fuck Marienburg cause but would many other profitable for everybody merits to it?
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Personally, no. An infrastructural project of that size would likely take years and years and years, and in a time when Kislev needs to prepare for the coming of Chaos, I'd rather focus on something simpler.

Backing up Kislev's books is something that's probably already on the back of Boris' mind - he knows full well that the Great War destroyed a lot of Kislev's knowledge and probably would feel better if after the next one they didn't have to play catch-up. And unlike other nations, Kislev has a smaller number of libraries worth the name - it would absolutely not be that much of a burden for them to provide the copies.

And if we ask for help against Marienburg, it's automatically helpful politically, even if the Empire doesn't pick a fight with Marienburg immediately. Being able to use Kislev's support as a threat would be helpful in curbing Marienburg's general unpleasantness.

Lammen Gorthaur said:
Listen, my main thing is how crippling not having a safe port to the Sea of Claws is. If we wanted to use the Kislev and maybe Vlag boon together to make a passage that gets out around Erengrad, my vote would absolutely then go towards Cooperation.

This all being said - I don't know how likely getting people to give up all this book shit is, and unlike the southern canal, this passage would absolutely provoke Marienburg into coming after us with both barrels.
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I understand. However, my main thing is that while probably over 9/10ths of the Empire would get behind getting Marienburg back (and thus we can count on its support in the future to do so), this is like the one opportunity where we can present a united front against Ulthuan to get waystone information. Success has never been guaranteed in the Project, and we have gotten as far as we have purely on the basis of getting the right person working in the right area. Ulthuan providing their own expert on the subject would be helpful.

Also, if Marienburg wants to pick a fight with both the Empire and Kislev, they're frankly just asking for it.
 
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Mellowfellow said:
Also how big of an impact and undertaking is a canal connecting the Urskoy-Lynsk rivers? It links Erengrad to the Empire's rivers network which sounds like a big deal for the short distance the canal needs from the proposed map.
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Here's what Boney said when he first posted it:
Boney said:
The Kislev-Praag road is already reasonably secured and well-made. An Urskoy-Lynsk Canal would be theoretically possible, the shortest route would be about fifty miles over rugged terrain between Vdovya and Bain running parallel to the existing Kislev-Praag road, while the easiest terrain to work with would be about a hundred miles between Inkodevna and Bolgasgrad via Zhanyka.
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The arguments for both sides make sense to me, but I agree with the other poster that in the end I think I'm going to vote the one I feel would be more interesting to read about on a long term basis. That means elf drama from co-operation and almost anything except BOOK. Still leaning towards the suggestion for help in claiming the forest of shadows nexus.
 
Personally I am not super thrilled by the book boon, just feels like the perfunctory numbers go up option. Like I get it, the library is great. But we already got a really good deal on bulk books so I'm good for a while there.
 
I know I'm the one who came up with it, but I'm partial to the Fire Spire thing. I think putting it under the control of the colleges would be really beneficial, we could have a mini-adventure investigating it and fixing it up (it's more or less presented in canon as a plot hook for adventurers to explore), there's probably some lost lore in there we can find, and then it could be converted into a branch college for the Orders of Magic.

Also I'm half convinced that it's leeching energy from Kislev's waystone network (because it's been on fire for nearly 200 years now, all that magic has to come from somewhere), so if we move into working on the Praag nexus, we might have to deal with it anyway.

And it's not like Kislev even wants the Spire—none of the priests or witches are interested in it at all.

Edit: Okay, I can't actually find any reference to it permanently on fire, that might be a thing I made up, but it does attract strange and dangerous magical phenomena, so something weird is up with it.
 
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The book-boon is the safe default ask. It's hard to strongly argue against it because it is undeniably a good thing overall. It's just very boring, and arguably something we'd get by default if we keep plodding on with our KAU actions to the point where they reach that far north.

I don't particularly like it and would rather get something more immediately useful out of it, like Kislev's military or economic aid with one of our other projects, like reclaiming the Forest nexuses. But this is, ultimately, a prize we're receiving for a task we were already willing to perform for free, so a mundane but by-the-numbers useful reward isn't something I'm going to campaign that hard against.
 
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Parabola said:
[ ] [BLOOD] Personal (Kislevite Heritage Preservation Act: a partnership between KAU and the whole of Kislev. To the extent that it does not interfere with Kislev's anti-Chaos preparations, Kislev will also send copies of its books to KAU. Common-sense restrictions apply.)
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Out of curiosity, why that wording specifically? I tried to get a discussion going yesterday but nobody really bit, and I'd like it if the blood boon book bloc (say that five times fast) could unify around a wording before the vote opens. For reference, here was my own take:
picklepikkl said:
[ ] [BLOOD] Personal: Partnership between Kron-Azril-Ungol and Kislev's libraries
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I know I'm the one who came up with it, but I'm partial to the Fire Spire thing. I think putting it under the control of the colleges would be really beneficial, we could have a mini-adventure investigating it and fixing it up (it's more or less presented in canon as a plot hook for adventurers to explore), there's probably some lost lore in there we can find, and then it could be converted into a branch college for the Orders of Magic.

Also I'm half convinced that it's leeching energy from Kislev's waystone network (because it's been on fire for nearly 200 years now, all that magic has to come from somewhere), so if we move into working on the Praag nexus, we might have to deal with it anyway.

And it's not like Kislev even wants the Spire—none of the priests or witches are interested in it at all.
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Ohhhh we could get it as our personal thing! Have a tower in every member of the project!
 
Being given the fire spire as a official seat of the kau would be pretty cool. Also would reaffirm our commitment to Kislev because it's in goddamn praag.
 
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