I'm sorry, what now, why and how?
Edit: If they regulalry deploy in the Empire itself, how can their existence be a secret?
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Edit: If they regulalry deploy in the Empire itself, how can their existence be a secret?
Lady Magister Grey suffers this alot due to what they did in their Capital as shown here.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Lady Magister Grey blew up one of their Hellcannon foundries.
They responded with a steady stream of hobgoblin assassins delivered via submarine that forced her into retirement.
She did dissect enough hobgoblins to publish a book on their anatomy, so that's something.
Edit: Weber'd.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
They're trying to assassinate Lady Magister Grey because she destroyed one of the few factories that makes hell canons.
Édit: btw, I wonder how they managed to hound her everywhere she went. Chorfs aren't known for their divination.
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One of Mathilde's peers, Lady Magister Grey, nuked a chaos dwarf foundry, and they have never forgiven her. She had to change her name to Grey and lives in hiding in the Grey College, because it's the only place their hobgoblin assassins can't reach, and even then you still get hobgoblin corpses floating downriver after a run in with one of Altdorf's patriotic criminal organisations.
Edit: well call me Slaanesh, because I am late to the party.
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Boney said;
Now, he didn't confirm what the something was, but the way he replied suggests magical education isn't off the table.
Now, my elaboration on this plan was to make it a joint project in a way that would make it hard for them not to expose some of their magical theory, such as by collaborating with them on codifying the spell and possibly on designing the enchantments.
This would reassure them that this wasn't a trap to build a back door into Laurelorn, it means that they'd also be getting some strategically significant magical lore out of the deal, so they wouldn't feel they were unilaterally surrendering an advantage, as RoW would possibly be very useful to them when fighting in the swamp.
Sharing RoW like this is also a major sign of trust, as if the Empire ever did want to invade them using RoW to take armies over the otherwise impassable swamp would be the way to do it, so revealing it so they can lean how to use it themselves to counter such a threat and investigate it themselves.
This is something that should work to reassure them on multiple levels. Not only does it give Middenland a permanent interest in backing Laurelorn, it reveals and simultaneously partially defangs a potential tool the Empire could use against them, and also gives them a useful tool that strengthens them in the case of future war with either the Empire or the 'police' actions required to keep the various swamp gribblies suppressed.
Rather than unilaterally weakening themselves as giving us access to their magical lore would otherwise do, it gives advantages to both sides, which is much more palatable.
Sorcerer-prophets are probably capable to prophecy. Probably literal pyromancy, divination by looking into and interpreting flames.
Shouldn't they be called Sorcerer-Pyromancers, then?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Captured Tzeentch daemons?
The fleet that ends up ambushing someone does not have to belong to their rivals, if they are lying there is nothing to say they would not lie about that as well. Build trust -> Give false information -> profit is not really 5D chess as much as the profile of most intelligence operations. If they do it right, and it's not like they random humans in the old world know one Druchi from another, they could even pretend it was their rivals who tricked them and have another go at it, maybe throw in some minor ships as sacrifice to keep the con going. When dealing with people who see both ruthlessness and deception as virtues, the stadards you have to hold them to are much higher than with someone who is at least somewhat invested in being honest. If they can see any profit in the short run from screwing us over they will because they do not see Mathilde as a person and in any case do not expect the mayflies to matter in the long run
- Anoqeyån is not a living tongue for anyone outside the White Tower, and it is the originator of confusing contradictory elf languages, I would not bet on us having full understanding anytime soon
- Keep in mind we do not know all the ways Waystones were meant to be used in devices or drawn on by high mages. It may well be that an instruction that reads: "Plug in type B crop enhancement ritual" followed a moment later by "maximum draw battle battle-magic scale", a set of instructions that no one would legitimately call would have an unintended harmful result
- He is clearly able to notice and stop some ways things can go bad, I think it behooves on us not to lean on him too hard, because if we are wrong things would be really bad
Pyromancy is a technique used to produce prophecies. Their name is focusing on the ends rather than the means.
We don't know how they create their prophecies, just that it's an important enough part of their role for it to be part of their title.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm pretty sure they're prophets in the sense that they speak the word of Hashut.
Predicting the future is not something I've seen written about them.
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The WD story ''The Court Beneath'' actually does directly examine the issue of whats happening to bretonnias magical boys, and without spoiling if you want to find it on it's own it's an entirely different and separate crime against humanity.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm aware, I've read it.
But that story was written for Hammer and Bolter 7 years and two editions later, I don't see a reason to think they had it in mind when they wrote that in 6th edition.
No problem, there is also another issue that the HE have to face when it comes to containing the Chaos Dwarves. They also have to prevent other factions from breaking containment as well due to the benefits of having free access towards the Chaos Dwarves such as Norscans, Pirates from all around the World, the DE, the Skaven and potentially many more parties. Such as shown particularly here below.
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If you're in the Old World, and you want to trade without the Asur being involved, there's only two ports to go to: Barak Varr and Uzkulak, and one of those is closed to anyone with an outstanding grudge against them.
The Chaos Dwarves are very careful about maintaining neutrality in their main connection to the outside world, no matter how the rest of their civilization acts.
The Chaos Dwarves are very careful about maintaining neutrality in their main connection to the outside world, no matter how the rest of their civilization acts.
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16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Indeed neither do I think they intended it at the time. In fact, it's the fact that it's more recent and no contradicted that gives it heavier weight (as canon) in my mind as likely to be the answer.
That said potentially both options could be happening at the same time or at different times in the universe, I mean bretonnias been grinding on for how many centuries now....*checks* huh only about 1,200 years. Younger than recalled.
Still long enough to birth a lot of magical boys.
I think we may have misunderstood each other intents and purposes.
Even if such is very rarely to our advantage, frankly, Delenda Est Chaos Dwarf as well.
- Location
- London, England
I'm probably a bit behind, but I'd like to address the idea of "playing Naggaroth and Ulthuan off against each other", and/or flirting with Naggaroth so that Ulthuan starts actually offering more direct benefits for staying friendly. Specifically, I'd like to point out that while this could work, it could also backfire massively and get us thoroughly mauled... by the Asur.
The analogy I saw was playing a second-world country in the Cold War, trying to get bennies from both the USA and the USSR. And what happened to a lot of those countries was that one of the Great Powers got annoyed and orchestrated a regime change, because they're not blind, they can see what the little guy is doing, and they don't appreciate being played.
The Asur are proud. And if you risk injuring that pride by trying to bait them via the Druchii, they might well decide to simply Make An Example. Back in 2354, when Marienburg was still an Imperial holding, a pirate who'd just attacked an Asur colony made port there. A short time later, Lothern Sea Guard were storming the port under the cover of magical fog, massacring everyone between them and the pirate in question, without so much as a word of explanation to the local authorities whose people were bleeding and dying in the streets.
When Aislinn got back to Ulthuan, a lot of courtiers chided him for being "overly harsh" - not, you'll note, committing an act of war against a sovereign power, but being a bit heavy handed in doing some law enforcement - but Phoenix King Finubar believed that having such a ruthless admiral in his fleet was an asset to be protected and cultivated.
If Ulthuan gets word that parts of the Empire are considering building stronger ties with Naggaroth, they might come with smiles and bribes and reasons to choose them. Or they might sent a team of shadow warriors to murder the entire negotiating team and leave their flayed skins hanging from the trees. Without an effective voice or representative in the Court of the Phoenix King, we have no way of knowing which outcome is more likely.
The analogy I saw was playing a second-world country in the Cold War, trying to get bennies from both the USA and the USSR. And what happened to a lot of those countries was that one of the Great Powers got annoyed and orchestrated a regime change, because they're not blind, they can see what the little guy is doing, and they don't appreciate being played.
The Asur are proud. And if you risk injuring that pride by trying to bait them via the Druchii, they might well decide to simply Make An Example. Back in 2354, when Marienburg was still an Imperial holding, a pirate who'd just attacked an Asur colony made port there. A short time later, Lothern Sea Guard were storming the port under the cover of magical fog, massacring everyone between them and the pirate in question, without so much as a word of explanation to the local authorities whose people were bleeding and dying in the streets.
When Aislinn got back to Ulthuan, a lot of courtiers chided him for being "overly harsh" - not, you'll note, committing an act of war against a sovereign power, but being a bit heavy handed in doing some law enforcement - but Phoenix King Finubar believed that having such a ruthless admiral in his fleet was an asset to be protected and cultivated.
If Ulthuan gets word that parts of the Empire are considering building stronger ties with Naggaroth, they might come with smiles and bribes and reasons to choose them. Or they might sent a team of shadow warriors to murder the entire negotiating team and leave their flayed skins hanging from the trees. Without an effective voice or representative in the Court of the Phoenix King, we have no way of knowing which outcome is more likely.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Bretonnia has been around for 1500 years.
Gilles lived in the late 900s.
At no point was I saying "this quote from 6th edition is 100% what is happening to them", I was saying that that seemed like the implication that they were going for at the time when they wrote that.
We've ready had confirmation that the Asur have no sticks with which to threaten the Empire with, and if they declare war on the Empire then both sides are looking at mutual extinction—it's the same reason the Empire and the Skaven, or the Empire and the Druchii, or the Empire and the Norscans all limit themselves to low level, low risk raids against each other. A full war would be ruinous to both sides, especially if the Empire starts pulling in allies like the Dwarves, the Eonir, Kislev, Bretonnia—many of whom are all kinda fed up with the Asur's attitude towards them. Hell, the Dwarves wouldn't even need an excuse, and the Arabyians would probably sail half way across the world to get involved in beating up some High Elves.
So if the Asur want to dictate policy to the Empire—whether that's breaking ties with the Druchii, shutting down the Waystone project, or anything else, they have to use carrots.
And one of those carrots is sending Teclis back to teach the Colleges.
....... There is a major problem with what you just said here. Ulthuan cannot do the escalation which you have suggested without causing ramifications which would catastrophic in there implications of relations between the Empire and the Asur. They are far more likely to go for the carrot simply because of the limitations placed on them as noted below in both positioning and goals.
So no, there is a gigantic difference between Marienburg, who are basically all but vassal of Ulthuan and the Empire in terms of location, capabilities and relationships between them. Furthermore no nation can abide to what you just suggested lightly and the likely reaction to Ulthuan would be immensely counterproductive in their goals.
Edit: Weber'd.
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It's quite possible that both happen at the same time.
Those boys with magical talent that the agents of the Lady get to first are inducted into the Court Below, but at times a Glade Lord or two had taken advantage of the fact that this is standard practice in Bretonnia to kidnap their own servants.
I doubt though, that the ones the Asrai take and keep as slaves in this scenario are actually magically talented, as that seems like asking for disaster.
An alternative option is that the disappearances of some of their sons to the Damsels/Lady is a sore point to many Bretonnians, so a Glade Lord who dislikes them has lesser fey assume the appearance of Bretonnian children either simply to be a dick or more strategically to try to undermine their faith in their Goddess or the reversed leverage it by suggesting she's more in league with the Asrai than she actually is.
Those boys with magical talent that the agents of the Lady get to first are inducted into the Court Below, but at times a Glade Lord or two had taken advantage of the fact that this is standard practice in Bretonnia to kidnap their own servants.
I doubt though, that the ones the Asrai take and keep as slaves in this scenario are actually magically talented, as that seems like asking for disaster.
An alternative option is that the disappearances of some of their sons to the Damsels/Lady is a sore point to many Bretonnians, so a Glade Lord who dislikes them has lesser fey assume the appearance of Bretonnian children either simply to be a dick or more strategically to try to undermine their faith in their Goddess or the reversed leverage it by suggesting she's more in league with the Asrai than she actually is.
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